HOLY SPIRIT convicts of what?

[Mitspa]

Re: being convicted by their own conscience..

I have no idea what you're talking about now..

I thought that we were agreed... that you have sinned since becoming a Christian..

Yes, then The Holy Spirit convicted me of "righteousness" and I started to "walk" in the Spirit. and trust in Gods Righteousness, not mine! I found that the desire to sin lost its power to bring me into sin!

Now I try to teach others how the "WORD OF GOD" renews our mind, into agreement with the Holy Spirit!

Rom 6:7

For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9

Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10

For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


The Holy Spirit had these words written! we must come into agreement with the Holy Spirit to "walk in the Spirit"

 

[Deborah13]

As believers there is a huge difference in believing that you are be convicted by the Holy Spirit of your sin. If you believe that you are putting yourself in the same category as the world without God. That is what His job is to the world, He uses the law to convict them of sin to bring them to a place that they are sinners and need a Savior.
We as believers already know that. So He convicts us of who we are in Christ, the righteous of God, in Christ.
Where I grew up it was very common for a parent to say to a child, you are a (sir name of the family) we don't do those things. It was not what they did that was the problem for the father it was that because they were as a member of that family they were not living up to the family name and reputation. There were times going up that you just didn't do something because of your respect and love for your father. You knew you were loved so you responded to that love and behaved accordingly.
There were others who would say straight out, I won't do that because my dad would kill me. They didn't have the same attitude. They responded the same but not for the same reasons.
The Holy Spirit convicts believers of who we already are, His beloved sons and daughters. So we can respond out the correct attitude, remembering that we are His beloved and His children we smile and return His love.
If we think that the Holy Spirit is convicting us of sin we are simply not believing God's word. He says, that satan the deceiver is the accuser of the brotheren. So will we believe God or the deceiver?
You my fellow family members, are the disciples that Jesus loves.

 

[Eventide]

Re: being convicted by their own conscience..

Yes, then The Holy Spirit convicted me of "righteousness" and I started to "walk" in the Spirit. and trust in Gods Righteousness, not mine! I found that the desire to sin lost its power to bring me into sin!

I suppose this is where we might differ and it's not a big deal obviously.. I believe that the Holy Spirit of God continues to convince us of all things even after we are in Christ.. and this is how I believe Paul could script that there is nothing good in him.. and everything righteous in Christ..

For example.. if the HS only convicted us of His righteousness, and not our sin.. then we would not be able to be deceived into thinking that we had no sin.. we would probably actually believe that we DO NOT have SIN in our lives.. because there would be no conviction of that truth IN US..

If that makes any sense..

 

[Deborah13]

Re: being convicted by their own conscience..

I suppose this is where we might differ and it's not a big deal obviously.. I believe that the Holy Spirit of God continues to convince us of all things even after we are in Christ.. and this is how I believe Paul could script that there is nothing good in him.. and everything righteous in Christ..

For example.. if the HS only convicted us of His righteousness, and not our sin.. then we would not be able to be deceived into thinking that we had no sin.. we would probably actually believe that we DO NOT have SIN in our lives.. because there would be no conviction of that truth IN US..

If that makes any sense..

Frankly, no.
Paul said there was nothing good in his flesh. Paul did not idenititfy himself with that flesh. He says that it is not him but the flesh. He idenitifies himself with that part of himself that is righteous in Christ, his spirit man, that new creature in Christ. Did this cause Paul to deny that he sinned in the flesh? NO

 

[Mitspa]

Re: being convicted by their own conscience..

I suppose this is where we might differ and it's not a big deal obviously.. I believe that the Holy Spirit of God continues to convince us of all things even after we are in Christ.. and this is how I believe Paul could script that there is nothing good in him.. and everything righteous in Christ..

For example.. if the HS only convicted us of His righteousness, and not our sin.. then we would not be able to be deceived into thinking that we had no sin.. we would probably actually believe that we DO NOT have SIN in our lives.. because there would be no conviction of that truth IN US..

If that makes any sense..

The message of Paul was that our "flesh" is always sinful! Even in our best religious efforts it is only "as dung"
Paul stated clearly that only by "walking in the Spirit" could we overcome the "flesh" Now my whole point was and is, that a believer must be in agreement with the Spirit of God, to walk in the Spirit! We must reckon ourselves dead sin and alive to God according to His Word!
Php 3:3



For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Php 3:4



Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Php 3:5



Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6



Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Php 3:7



But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8



Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9



And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: :biglol

 

[Mitspa]

As believers there is a huge difference in believing that you are be convicted by the Holy Spirit of your sin. If you believe that you are putting yourself in the same category as the world without God. That is what His job is to the world, He uses the law to convict them of sin to bring them to a place that they are sinners and need a Savior.
We as believers already know that. So He convicts us of who we are in Christ, the righteous of God, in Christ.
Where I grew up it was very common for a parent to say to a child, you are a (sir name of the family) we don't do those things. It was not what they did that was the problem for the father it was that because they were as a member of that family they were not living up to the family name and reputation. There were times going up that you just didn't do something because of your respect and love for your father. You knew you were loved so you responded to that love and behaved accordingly.
There were others who would say straight out, I won't do that because my dad would kill me. They didn't have the same attitude. They responded the same but not for the same reasons.
The Holy Spirit convicts believers of who we already are, His beloved sons and daughters. So we can respond out the correct attitude, remembering that we are His beloved and His children we smile and return His love.
If we think that the Holy Spirit is convicting us of sin we are simply not believing God's word. He says, that satan the deceiver is the accuser of the brotheren. So will we believe God or the deceiver?
You my fellow family members, are the disciples that Jesus loves.

Like music to my ears!:headphones

 

[Deborah13]

Good preaching, Mitspa.

Uplifting to the spirit of every believer no matter who or where they are in their walk.

Thanks

 

[Eventide]

Re: being convicted by their own conscience..

The message of Paul was that our "flesh" is always sinful! Even in our best religious efforts it is only "as dung"
Paul stated clearly that only by "walking in the Spirit" could we overcome the "flesh" Now my whole point was and is, that a believer must be in agreement with the Spirit of God, to walk in the Spirit! We must reckon ourselves dead sin and alive to God according to His Word!

You're preaching to the choir here imo... I have absolutely no conflict with this at all...

The discussion here is whether or not the Holy Spirit would convince us of sin in our lives after conversion.. and imo He still does.. because as mentioned.. if we were ONLY convicted of His righteousness, and not our sin, then we would most likely be led to believe that we have NO SIN..

And that of course is completely contrary to the truth of the holy scriptures... and yet we have people right here in CF telling us that they have no sin.

And what does John say about that ?

That they are DECEIVED and the TRUTH is not in them...

So if the truth is not in them then they can be deceived into believing that they have no sin... and with the truth in us.. we can't be deceived of that.. so do the math..

 

[farouk]

A passage in John's Gospel speaks of three things that the Holy Spirit convicts of: sin, righteousness and judgment (John 16.8-11).

 

[Mitspa]

Re: being convicted by their own conscience..

You're preaching to the choir here imo... I have absolutely no conflict with this at all...

The discussion here is whether or not the Holy Spirit would convince us of sin in our lives after conversion.. and imo He still does.. because as mentioned.. if we were ONLY convicted of His righteousness, and not our sin, then we would most likely be led to believe that we have NO SIN..

And that of course is completely contrary to the truth of the holy scriptures... and yet we have people right here in CF telling us that they have no sin.

And what does John say about that ?

That they are DECEIVED and the TRUTH is not in them...

So if the truth is not in them then they can be deceived into believing that they have no sin... and with the truth in us.. we can't be deceived of that.. so do the math..

The sin issue is in the "flesh" the Solution is in the "spirit"!
If you believe that the Holy Spirit convicts you of sin, contrary to the Word of God.
I doubt you will ever be able to walk in agreement with the Holy Spirit, and have victory over the sin that is in the "flesh"

Php 3:3



For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Php 3:4



Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Php 3:5



Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6



Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Php 3:7



But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8



Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9



And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

We only overcome sin by walking in agreement with the Holy Spirit!

 

[Mitspa]

A passage in John's Gospel speaks of three things that the Holy Spirit convicts of: sin, righteousness and judgment (John 16.8-11).

Maybe you would like to post all those scriptures and explain them?

 

[farouk]

Maybe you would like to post all those scriptures and explain them?

Click on the verses in my post on the screen and they will pull up automatically.

It shows that there needs to be a work of the Holy Spirit in conversion.

 

[Deborah13]

A passage in John's Gospel speaks of three things that the Holy Spirit convicts of: sin, righteousness and judgment (John 16.8-11).

Who is being convict of what?

sin - the world to convince them they are sinners in God's eyes and need a Savior

righteousness - the believer, we already know we need a Savior, and what sin is, it has already been written on our hearts and in our minds.

judgement - satan

What is righteousness but the opposite of sin.

 

[Mitspa]

Click on the verses in my post on the screen and they will pull up automatically.

It shows that there needs to be a work of the Holy Spirit in conversion.

Joh 16:8

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9

Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10

Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11

Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

the Holy Spirit is convicting 3 different groups 1. the "world" of sin, 2. You "believers" of righteousness 3. satan of "judgement"

Now find me one scripture in All the NEW Testament where the Holy Spirit brings the "believers" sin to remembrance? NO! what you will find is everytime the Holy Spirit and His work is mentioned that it says "there sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more! Check it out!

So do you agree with my understanding? or do you find fault in my reading of the scriptures?

 

[Eventide]

Re: being convicted by their own conscience..

The sin issue is in the "flesh" the Solution is in the "spirit"!
If you believe that the Holy Spirit convicts you of sin, contrary to the Word of God.
I doubt you will ever be able to walk in agreement with the Holy Spirit, and have victory over the sin that is in the "flesh"

You just completely ignored what I just wrote and I'm sure you did it intentionally.

Here's the argument...

IF a person claims that they have no sin then they are deceived and the truth is not in them.

This would not be the case if the truth IS actually within a person.

So do the math... if the truth is in a person then they will know that they have sin.. whereas a person who is deceived into believing that they have no sin does NOT have the truth in them

The TRUTH is obviously Christ in us.. the SPIRIT of Christ.

IMO that's case closed right there.

 

[BornAgain]

Re: being convicted by their own conscience..

The sin issue is in the "flesh" the Solution is in the "spirit"!
If you believe that the Holy Spirit convicts you of sin, contrary to the Word of God.
I doubt you will ever be able to walk in agreement with the Holy Spirit, and have victory over the sin that is in the "flesh"

The Spirit, using the tongues of the apostles, would "convict" the world "in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." To convict is to convince with evidence which includes refutation, instruction and pursuasion. It means to expose error, to reveal wrong-doing and to confute wrong-doers.


Not all who hear the truth which the apostles preached are brought to obedience but those who are not are affected by it and become harder of heart because of it.

Three areas in which the Spirit would convict are sin, righteousness and judgment. To convict one of sin is to bring to one's consciousness an awareness which it brings; of righteousness by showing that only those who work it are accepted of God. Acts 10:34,35., and of judgment by pointing out that it will bring condemnation to all who do not turn in penitence to the Saviour.

The Spirit would convict of sin "because they [the rebellious world] believe not on me," the basic cause of sin, and the root of all rebellion against God. To reject Him is to renounce Christianity. The Spirit will convict of righteousness because Christ will return to the Father and be seen in the world no more; but, the Spirit's work will continue, first through the apostles directly, and then through the inspired word.

 

[Mitspa]

Re: being convicted by their own conscience..

You just completely ignored what I just wrote and I'm sure you did it intentionally.

Here's the argument...

IF a person claims that they have no sin then they are deceived and the truth is not in them.

This would not be the case if the truth IS actually within a person.

So do the math... if the truth is in a person then they will know that they have sin.. whereas a person who is deceived into believing that they have no sin does NOT have the truth in them

The TRUTH is obviously Christ in us.. the SPIRIT of Christ.

IMO that's case closed right there.

Rom 7:10



And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11



For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12



Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13



Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14



For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15



For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16



If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17



Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18



For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19



For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20



Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

I agree! here is the problem:biglol


Now the answer to the sin problem;
Rom 8:4



That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5



For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6



For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7



Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8



So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9



But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10



And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[Eventide]

It's obvious to me that you can't engage the argument set forth here in simple terms..

So be it..

 

[Mitspa]

Re: being convicted by their own conscience..

The Spirit, using the tongues of the apostles, would "convict" the world "in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." To convict is to convince with evidence which includes refutation, instruction and pursuasion. It means to expose error, to reveal wrong-doing and to confute wrong-doers.


Not all who hear the truth which the apostles preached are brought to obedience but those who are not are affected by it and become harder of heart because of it.

Three areas in which the Spirit would convict are sin, righteousness and judgment. To convict one of sin is to bring to one's consciousness an awareness which it brings; of righteousness by showing that only those who work it are accepted of God. Acts 10:34,35., and of judgment by pointing out that it will bring condemnation to all who do not turn in penitence to the Saviour.

The Spirit would convict of sin "because they [the rebellious world] believe not on me," the basic cause of sin, and the root of all rebellion against God. To reject Him is to renounce Christianity. The Spirit will convict of righteousness because Christ will return to the Father and be seen in the world no more; but, the Spirit's work will continue, first through the apostles directly, and then through the inspired word.

Hell born-again

First these was the Words of our Lord!
And not sure of your point? are you saying the Holy Spirt is not a witness to we who believe? maybe I am missing your point?

 

[Mitspa]

It's obvious to me that you can't engage the argument set forth here in simple terms..

So be it..

1Co 3:1


And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2



I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3



For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?