HOLY SPIRIT convicts of what?

[ezra]

Well do you have a scripture that says that? for the one I posted shows The Holy Spirit convicts the "believer" of Righteousness, meaning the Holy Spirit convicts us of our position as sons of God? It is very important to know the that satan is called the "accuser of the brethren" The Holy Spirit does not convict the believer of sin!
I am willing to accept any scripture that says He does, but there is none!

first off what is conviction ? A sense of guilt and shame leading to repentance. The words “convict†and “conviction†do not appear in the King James Version. The word “convince†(KJV) comes closest to expressing the meaning of “conviction.â€

The Hebrew word yakah expresses the idea of conviction. It means “to argue with,†“to prove,†“to correct.†God may be the subject and persons the object (Job 22:4) or a person may be the subject who convicts another person (Ezekiel 3:26).

The Greek term meaning “convict†is elegxo. It means “to convict†“to refute,†“to confute,†usually with the suggestion of shame of the person convicted. Young ministers like Timothy and Titus had the responsibility of “convicting†(rebuking, refuting) those under their charge (1 Timothy 5:20; 2 Timothy 4:2; Titus 1:13; Titus 2:15). John the Baptist “convicted†Herod Antipas because of his illicit marriage to Herodias, his brother's wife (Luke 3:19). No one could convict Jesus of sin (John 8:46).

John 16:8-11 is a classic passage on conviction. The Holy Spirit is the One who convicts, and the (inhabited) world is the object of conviction. A study of this passage yields the following results. First, conviction for sin is the result of the Holy Spirit awakening humanity to a sense of guilt and condemnation because of sin and unbelief. Second, more than mental conviction is intended. The total person is involved. This can lead to action based on a sense of conviction. Third, the conviction results in hope, not despair. Once individuals are made aware of their estranged relationship with God, they are challenged and encouraged to mend that relationship. The conviction not only implies the exposure of sin (despair) but also a call to repentance (hope)

next when he convicts us of righteousness which i do agree. what do you call chastisement ?

1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged by the Lord, chastisement follows, to save us from being condemned along with the world. (WEY)

Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. (KJV WBS)


my point is when we do wrong sin get angry --fail to do what God wants us to do. chastisement--conviction { im words a sense of guilt from doing wrong.} there is a difference between condemnation (the devil) and conviction {holy spirit} ..i been down this debate many times if you feel the Spirit does not convict you...then so be it..i will stand on my belief --this is not salvation threatening ..i just showed you where i stand on the issue

 

[Mitspa]

first off what is conviction ? A sense of guilt and shame leading to repentance. The words “convict†and “conviction†do not appear in the King James Version. The word “convince†(KJV) comes closest to expressing the meaning of “conviction.â€

The Hebrew word yakah expresses the idea of conviction. It means “to argue with,†“to prove,†“to correct.†God may be the subject and persons the object (Job 22:4) or a person may be the subject who convicts another person (Ezekiel 3:26).

The Greek term meaning “convict†is elegxo. It means “to convict†“to refute,†“to confute,†usually with the suggestion of shame of the person convicted. Young ministers like Timothy and Titus had the responsibility of “convicting†(rebuking, refuting) those under their charge (1 Timothy 5:20; 2 Timothy 4:2; Titus 1:13; Titus 2:15). John the Baptist “convicted†Herod Antipas because of his illicit marriage to Herodias, his brother's wife (Luke 3:19). No one could convict Jesus of sin (John 8:46).

John 16:8-11 is a classic passage on conviction. The Holy Spirit is the One who convicts, and the (inhabited) world is the object of conviction. A study of this passage yields the following results. First, conviction for sin is the result of the Holy Spirit awakening humanity to a sense of guilt and condemnation because of sin and unbelief. Second, more than mental conviction is intended. The total person is involved. This can lead to action based on a sense of conviction. Third, the conviction results in hope, not despair. Once individuals are made aware of their estranged relationship with God, they are challenged and encouraged to mend that relationship. The conviction not only implies the exposure of sin (despair) but also a call to repentance (hope)

next when he convicts us of righteousness which i do agree. what do you call chastisement ?

1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged by the Lord, chastisement follows, to save us from being condemned along with the world. (WEY)

Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. (KJV WBS)


my point is when we do wrong sin get angry --fail to do what God wants us to do. chastisement--conviction { im words a sense of guilt from doing wrong.} there is a difference between condemnation (the devil) and conviction {holy spirit} ..i been down this debate many times if you feel the Spirit does not convict you...then so be it..i will stand on my belief --this is not salvation threatening ..i just showed you where i stand on the issue

You make very good and honest points my friend! "To convince" or to show might be the best definition?

Joh 3:19


And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Joh 3:20

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Eph 5:13


But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Now again we have all been taught that the Holy Spirit job is to SHOW us our sin? Or to make us aware of our sinfulness?

I believe the Holy Spirit is not convicting us of "sin" but showing us "true righteousness" convincing us of our right standing with God!

I myself have had many stripes from My Father, and after words I have always seen His Wisdom.
Again the Key to overcoming our sinful desires, is to walk in the "Spirit" this is clear in scripture.

So to be double minded about the Work of The Holy Spirit, we would be hard pressed to walk with Him?

Let me ask you this, when you feel you are in fellowship with God, And aware of His Love for you, do you not find it "natural" to love others and resist sin? On the other hand when you feel seperated from Him and His love, do you not find it very hard to love others?

Why is the strength of sin, the law? because a defiled and guilty man cannot walk with God in His Spirit!

satan is the accuser of the brethren!

 

[ezra]

satan is the accuser of the brethren!

at that he is. but do you give satan the credit when you sin? then your reminded or corrected ? i sure dont

I believe the Holy Spirit is not convicting us of "sin" but showing us "true righteousness" convincing us of our right standing with God!

then you keep on believing and i will stand where i do.

 

[Mitspa]

at that he is. but do you give satan the credit when you sin? then your reminded or corrected ? i sure dont


then you keep on believing and i will stand where i do.

No! you are missing my point! I have stated clearly that we are all sinners in the "flesh" so we all need to "walk in the Spirit" to be set free from the sin that abides in the "flesh"

I believe I have seen you confront those who reject the scriptures? For sake of their own traditions! Are you now not also saying and doing that which you have condemned?

Mar 7:13

Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do you



Mar 7:16

If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.




And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

Mar 7:21

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Mar 7:22

Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
Mar 7:23

All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

 

[ezra]

No! you are missing my point! I have stated clearly that we are all sinners in the "flesh" so we all need to "walk in the Spirit" to be set free from the sin that abides in the "flesh"

I believe I have seen you confront those who reject the scriptures? For sake of their own traditions! Are you now not also saying and doing that which you have condemned?

no point missed my point is you stand on your belief and i will stand on mine. there are other doctrine issues of truth that needs to be addressed. i would call this gnat straining ... you jumped over the fence i crossed over it. either way a action was formed by crossing the fence. just as long as the job gets done thats all that matters

 

[Mitspa]

no point missed my point is you stand on your belief and i will stand on mine. there are other doctrine issues of truth that needs to be addressed. i would call this gnat straining ... you jumped over the fence i crossed over it. either way a action was formed by crossing the fence. just as long as the job gets done thats all that matters

Walking in the "Spirit" and the true work of The Holy Spirit is "gnat straining"
No one gets the job done unless the walk in agreement with The Holy Spirit!

Having said that, I have found you to be a refreshing voice of truth on this forum. I hope my words towards you have caused you no harm and may you always walk in Gods Good Light! -Mitspa

 

[ezra]

Walking in the "Spirit" and the true work of The Holy Spirit is "gnat straining"
No one gets the job done unless the walk in agreement with The Holy Spirit!

Having said that, I have found you to be a refreashing voice of truth on this forum. I hope my words towards you have caused you no harm and may you always walk in Gods Good Light! -Mitspa

plz re read what i said in NO way SHAPE or FORM was i insinuating that walking in the Spirit was gnat straining. my reference was to doe the spirit convict of sin. while do personally hold to the conviction of the Holy Spirit. its not salvation threatening

 

[Slider]

Religious bondage comes from ignorance, liberty comes when we know the truth! God Bless -Mitspa

Amen! I like it!!!

 

[Mitspa]

Joh 16:8

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9

Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10

Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11

Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

the Holy Spirit is convicting 3 different groups 1. the "world" of sin, 2. You "believers" of righteousness 3. satan of "judgement"

Now find me one scripture in All the NEW Testament where the Holy Spirit brings the "believers" sin to remembrance? NO! what you will find is everytime the Holy Spirit and His work is mentioned that it says "there sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more!

Amo 3:3

Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

How can any of us "walk in The Spirit" if we think "He" is trying to teach us about our sin?

When really He is teaching us we are "righteous" and clean by the Blood of Christ!

 

[Mitspa]

Rom 8:10

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


Rom 8:14

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:



The Spirit is Life, because of Righteousness, and is a witness that we are indeed children of God

How satan has deceived the "church" into thinking the Holy Spirit is "convicting" the "believer" of sin?

How could anyone walk in the "Spirit" and think this false doctrine is true? You cannot!

 

[Mitspa]

Rom 8:10



And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11



But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.




Rom 8:14



For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15



For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16



The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:



The Spirit is Life, because of Righteousness, and is a witness that we are indeed children of God

How satan has deceived the "church" into thinking the Holy Spirit is "convicting" the "believer" of sin?

How could anyone walk in the "Spirit" and think this false doctrine is true? You cannot!

Rom 8:33

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Many false teachers would have us believe that its the Holy Spirit that lays charges against us?
No the Holy Spirit is not showing us our sin, He is showing us our "righteousness" in God!

satan is the accuser!

2Co 11:4

For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

[Mitspa]

You make very good and honest points my friend! "To convince" or to show might be the best definition?

Joh 3:19






And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Joh 3:20



For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Eph 5:13






But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Now again we have all been taught that the Holy Spirit job is to SHOW us our sin? Or to make us aware of our sinfulness?

I believe the Holy Spirit is not convicting us of "sin" but showing us "true righteousness" convincing us of our right standing with God!

I myself have had many stripes from My Father, and after words I have always seen His Wisdom.
Again the Key to overcoming our sinful desires, is to walk in the "Spirit" this is clear in scripture.

So to be double minded about the Work of The Holy Spirit, we would be hard pressed to walk with Him?

Let me ask you this, when you feel you are in fellowship with God, And aware of His Love for you, do you not find it "natural" to love others and resist sin? On the other hand when you feel seperated from Him and His love, do you not find it very hard to love others?

Why is the strength of sin, the law? because a defiled and guilty man cannot walk with God in His Spirit!

satan is the accuser of the brethren!

Heb 11:1


Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Here is another use of the word translated as "convict"

Old and common word from
elegchō- for "proof" and then for "conviction." Both uses occur in the papyri and either makes sense here, perhaps "conviction"

I tell you the Holy Spirit is trying to convince you that you are Righteous in Christ!
If you can only believe all things are possible!

Mitspa

 

[ezra]

Many false teachers would have us believe that its the Holy Spirit that lays charges against us?
No the Holy Spirit is not showing us our sin, He is showing us our "righteousness" in God!

just because some one believes the holy spirit convicts us of the sins we commit after salvation..does not make them a false teacher. as i stated i do believe in the conviction of the Holy Spirit and i can show lots others that believe the same way.

the Holy Spirit is not showing us our sin, He is showing us our "righteousness" in God!

i could say this is false teaching.. but i wont .while i disagree with it. it does not make it false teaching***

 

[Eventide]

A Father's love

Our Heavenly Father has a difficult job IMO.. He must often chastise (correct) His children... and of course on our end this is not always pleasant.. Just as it was not pleasant for the Apostle Paul to write to the Corinthians concerning their grievous sin in that assembly.

If we are without correction or chastisement then we are not His sons.. And IMO this is a large problem in Christendom today.. Nobody can be corrected.. We all somehow think that we're beyond correction and chastisement and that there is no further need of it..

Silly IMO..

 

[Eventide]

Godly sorrow...

What was the result of Paul's chastisement to the church of God in Corinth..

Godly sorrow..

And that led them to what..

Repentance..

A perfect living and powerful example to a Christian assembly of believers.

 

[Mitspa]

Re: A Father's love

Our Heavenly Father has a difficult job IMO.. He must often chastise (correct) His children... and of course on our end this is not always pleasant.. Just as it was not pleasant for the Apostle Paul to write to the Corinthians concerning their grievous sin in that assembly.

If we are without correction or chastisement then we are not His sons.. And IMO this is a large problem in Christendom today.. Nobody can be corrected.. We all somehow think that we're beyond correction and chastisement and that there is no further need of it..

Silly IMO..

I agree with you brother, but what was always Pauls response to the sin? What did he ALWAYS point to as the answer, in regards to sin? KNOW YE NOT THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT DWELLS WITHIN YOU? Paul ALWAYS taught that the Spirit was the answer to sin!

Correction comes when we walk in the "flesh" one who obeys the Spirit need not be chastised! I have learned this lesson by many stripes by my Father. All to bring me into "true righteousness" by faith, walking in agreement with His Holy Spirit!

Heb 12:11






Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

1Co 6:19



What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Co 6:20



For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.


Its all about walking in agreement with the Spirit, If one walks in the Spirit they will not fulfill the lust of the flesh!
This is so clear that one has to be religious not to see it!

 

[Eventide]

Re: A Father's love

This is so clear that one has to be religious not to see it!

Now this I can agree with!

 

[Mitspa]

Re: A Father's love

Now this I can agree with!

Brother I am not, as some, trying to set believers free from the Law so that they may just walk in the "flesh" apart from godliness! I am trying to reveal the true will of God for us who have His Holy Spirit! That we may walk in "true" Holiness which is in His Spirit! Being of heaven, not of this earth. Not of man but of God. Not by strength, nor by might of man, but BY MY SPIRIT, SAITH THE LORD!

Mitspa

 

[Eventide]

Re: A Father's love

Brother I am not, as some, trying to set believers free from the Law so that they may just walk in the "flesh" apart from godliness!

Mitspa, I sincerely do not understand why you would write this to me..

Do you actually believe that I am trying to walk in the flesh apart from the Holy Spirit of God ?

 

[smaller]

Re: A Father's love

Brother I am not, as some, trying to set believers free from the Law so that they may just walk in the "flesh" apart from godliness! I am trying to reveal the true will of God for us who have His Holy Spirit! That we may walk in "true" Holiness which is in His Spirit! Being of heaven, not of this earth. Not of man but of God. Not by strength, nor by might of man, but BY MY SPIRIT, SAITH THE LORD!

Mitspa

The lawlessness in every person remains condemned under the law, especially in believers.

The world of christianity is filled with people claiming their sin is justified or non-existing under Grace.

The Holy Spirit should lead zero believers to that conclusion.

Why? Because it's not true.

Paul differentiated zero of us from any other person in this regards including our post salvation state:

Romans 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile

2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

Romans 3:
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sins

Believers are GUARANTEED tribulation first, before ANY unbelievers.

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Easy street via Law tossing? Not a chance. That will never happen.

s