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HOLY SPIRIT convicts of what?

Re: A Father's love

Mitspa, I sincerely do not understand why you would write this to me..

Do you actually believe that I am trying to walk in the flesh apart from the Holy Spirit of God ?

No my friend! I have seen you on this forum be very frustrated with those who attempt to use scripture to in effect say "I am elect" I was sinless from birth etc...
All that nonsense that I call "faithless grace"!

No, I was trying to say that some accuse me of not being concerned enough about sin? I think its clear in scripture that only the Spirit can overcome the sin issue in all of us! that was my point.:)
 
I posted this on another thread last night, I think it helps in view of this thread also?


I am trying to see where the issue is? That which is born of flesh is "flesh". That which is born of Spirit is spirit. The "flesh" my physical body, that which is of dirt. "cursed" dirt by the way. Is still here. Now some call this the "sinful nature" I have allowed that others use this term , I do not! Now the issue of the "Flesh" was judged at the Cross in the body of Christ. God condemned sin in the flesh, in the body of Christ. So the flesh is nothing, it can niether condemn nor justify a believer. But unless a believer, by faith, accepts this truth and walks in it, although the work was done, they can not "reckon" themselves dead to sin. The flesh will still have power over them, because they still see themselves as the old man.

Heb 4:6

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:


Now the "new man" is the Spiritual man. born from the Word, He does not consider the "flesh" only the Word of God. We receive the Spirit by faith and by faith we abide in the Spirit. The "new man" must eat of Gods Word to grow and by faith gains dominion over the "old man".

The mind is the issue, for sin came by knowledge. By knowledge of "Gods Righteousness"(which is the Image of Christ) The mind is "renewed" meaning the mind is freed from the old temporal thoughts, earthly thoughts. Renewed into the New Creation, who and what we are "in Christ". The Heavens and eternal things to come. Behold all things are new! The renewed mind is more aware of who they are in "spirit" and who they are to be eternally.

Now my understanding of the "soul" is not complete! But it appears that the soul must take on the Image of the Spirit. If it yields to the "flesh" it is what scripture calls "carnal".

This might also help? this earth and everything physical is temporal. It will all vanish or burn away as Peter stated. Christ is "redeeming" us from this temporal realm into the eternal realm. Our Spirits are Eternal beings in a temporal body.

2Co 4:18

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.




Our spirits are working for eternal things, the flesh cannot understand the spirit. and fights against it.

I hope this helps explain my veiw? God bless -Mitspa
 
The Two Covenants and the Law was shown to Abraham in the form of his own TWO SONS. Paul described the life of Abraham, his wives and his son as these two covenants, all an allegory, in Galatians 4-5.

Abraham, though a real man, also lived his life in allegorical (read-spiritual) showings in our behalf, as seen by Paul comparing spiritual matters to spiritual matters.

We all know who Isaac represents don't we? The Son of Promise. Isaac was not that son, but a fleshly showing of Christ to come. God always shows these things in the natural order first. Just as Israel of the flesh is a natural showing. Or even Jesus Himself was a natural man showing FIRST.

The real question in the equation is what does Ishmael show allegorically? To understand this matter is problematic.

We know many things about Ishmael by observing the matters, how he derided Isaac for example. Yet God also promised blessings on Ishmael himself and even heeded the prayers of his mother. It is NOT like God hated them as people. That is not the point of the allegory whatsoever, to deride them as people. They both show 'spiritual matters' in election and salvation in the converse/adverse direction.

Here is the Old Testament's depiction on Ishmael:

Genesis 16:12
And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

This showing still exists today in the Middle East in the natural.

But it is in fact a spiritual matter that applies to all of us as believers, as Paul showed here, in Galatians 4:

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

The question will still remain. Knowing these matters are allegorical, what are they allegorical of?


This 'persecution' is something we all carry within us. It does not 'cease' by stopping to observe the fact or ignoring the fact. This persecution is A DIVINE PROMISE. And the first covenant, that of the Old Testament LAW still remains written against all 'sons of the flesh' which we all in fact carry and that Covenant will REMAIN against these sons of the flesh and their evil workings. It is impossible to eliminate this fact. The Covenant of the Law remains firmly fixed against all lawlessness in whomever it is found and it is found in ALL.

To understand any allegory/parable/metaphor Jesus gave us a very very simple dissection, spiritually, of these exact matters, to understand the identity of the parties involved. And His Understanding MUST be applied to everything we think we know about these matters in order to have a complete and accurate picture.

The difficulty is also and always the same. Every time Jesus' Revealing of this matter comes to the heart, the son of flesh will resist this fact as personally applicable. Those who can not accept this fact for themselves don't really know who they are or who the enemy is that they themselves carry.

And that too is by Gods Exact Design of our present 'situation' and identifies which party is raised in the lump of flesh BY HIS CALLING in Truth. It can be put up all the day long and very very few will connect the dots, simple as they are. I use Mark 4:15 because it is the most forthright statement, although 2 other Gospel writers used similar depictions, also for specific differences in reasoning on this matter. And the reason I use Mark 4:15 is because Mark is the only writer that quotes Jesus as saying this parable is the basis for understanding ALL parables. Understanding allegories/parables and metaphors ALL revolve around this single PARABLE. If the components are missing in any dissection, the dissectors only serve to show they do not know their Word:

15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Only disciples are called in to have this revealed to them, personally. Jesus did not describe these same matters to the 'masses' that He spoke to. He instead VEILED this same matter in different terms.

There is a reason He called His Disciples aside for a real look. Because they are to believe EVERY WORD He says and they must understand His Words personally. If they do not, they are NOT yet a disciple and they will understand almost nothing of anything else He Says. It is as simple as 1, 2, 3. And this count will apply to every matter in the text.

Now, who here is a disciple?

Who does Ishmael represent, allegorically?

And where is the location of what Ishmael represents?


Knock yerselves out.

?

s
 
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The FIRST (Adam) and the LAST (Adam)...

Now, who here is a disciple?

Who does Ishmael represent, allegorically?

And where is the location of what Ishmael represents?


Knock yerselves out.

?

s

Excellent commentary smaller.. I also love the thematic study of the word which simply tells the grand story within the stories. Abraham's two sons clearly fit this construct..

Ishmael certainly represents our NATURAL BIRTH in Adam.. who WE ARE when we are born the first time through our parents.

Isaac, as you mentioned is the son of promise and is absolutely a picture of CHRIST in you, birthed in us miraculously by the power of the Holy Spirit.
 
Re: The FIRST (Adam) and the LAST (Adam)...

Excellent commentary smaller.. I also love the thematic study of the word which simply tells the grand story within the stories. Abraham's two sons clearly fit this construct..

Ishmael certainly represents our NATURAL BIRTH in Adam.. who WE ARE when we are born the first time through our parents.

Isaac, as you mentioned is the son of promise and is absolutely a picture of CHRIST in you, birthed in us miraculously by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Blaming Adam is the favorite pastime of most believers.

Adam was Gods son. I find no basis of legitimate accusations to be had there.

We've come to this point many times prior, and there is a bitter pill for every son of God to ingest on His Matters of fact.

Some get it. Some are not meant to. And I might consider those not meant to God is being presently merciful in non-disclosures. Such believers will be saved regardless for the heartfelt call of faith in God in Christ put into such to call. They have and will have their share in the Divine.

s
 
to WILL is present with me...

I agree with smaller when he says that there is nothing inherently evil in our flesh... meaning the flesh which hangs from these bones.. although imo that's not what 'the flesh' means in a scriptural sense.. it's more aligned with the totality of our being.. from head to toe we're sick according to the scriptures.. it's our mind, our heart, our motivation, our WILL...

Following Christ in a nutshell is agreeing with God concerning OUR WILL, and living this life according to HIS WILL.

AND this is a TOUGH BATTLE.. to think for a minute that it's a walk in the park is imo not being honest about it.

I also think that Mitspa makes a vitally important point in how the Holy Spirit convinces us of HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS.. and when we see that it is like night and day.. if we compare who I am, and who HE IS.
 
Re: The FIRST (Adam) and the LAST (Adam)...

Blaming Adam is the favorite pastime of most believers.

Adam was Gods son. I find no basis of legitimate accusations to be had there.

We've come to this point many times prior, and there is a bitter pill for every son of God to ingest on His Matters of fact.

Some get it. Some are not meant to. And I might consider those not meant to God is being presently merciful in non-disclosures. Such believers will be saved regardless for the heartfelt call of faith in God in Christ put into such to call. They have and will have their share in the Divine.

s

You're certainly welcome to believe that you're the standard of who gets it and who doesn't.. although it all comes down to the simple honesty of admitting (and agreeing with God) that YOU are a sinner.. and not an excuse of the devil made me do it.

It's one thing to have a fowl land on your head.. it's another matter entirely to allow it to build its nest there.

The scriptures clearly teach that ADAM was not DECEIVED.. he was flat out disobedient.. and many can't seem to admit that today.
 
Re: to WILL is present with me...

I agree with smaller when he says that there is nothing inherently evil in our flesh... meaning the flesh which hangs from these bones.. although imo that's not what 'the flesh' means in a scriptural sense.. it's more aligned with the totality of our being.. from head to toe we're sick according to the scriptures.. it's our mind, our heart, our motivation, our WILL...

Following Christ in a nutshell is agreeing with God concerning OUR WILL, and living this life according to HIS WILL.

AND this is a TOUGH BATTLE.. to think for a minute that it's a walk in the park is imo not being honest about it.

I also think that Mitspa makes a vitally important point in how the Holy Spirit convinces us of HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS.. and when we see that it is like night and day.. if we compare who I am, and who HE IS.

The matter of Ishmael, the son of the flesh, connected to the Old Covenant Law against the lawlessness we all factually have can be put in front of anyone and it still can NOT be seen.

Here is a little 'exercise' for you ET.

Allegorically put Jesus' Fact from Mark 4:15 firmly firmly in your RIGHT HAND.

Now, go back to the Garden, and apply Jesus' Words to Adam right from the very start, and tell me, using Mark 4:15, what might 'really' have happened to Adam from the exact instant Gods Words Blessed him.

Just step it through sequentially exactly as Jesus shows you in Mark 4:15.

If you are allowed to see, you will SEE what happened to Adam and you will never blame and accuse Adam, ever again. Because it will be as clear as the nose on your face what happened to him and every person who has ever lived since.

See what you come up with.

s
 
You're certainly welcome to believe that you're the standard of who gets it and who doesn't.. although it all comes down to the simple honesty of admitting (and agreeing with God) that YOU are a sinner.. and not an excuse of the devil made me do it.

It's one thing to have a fowl land on your head.. it's another matter entirely to allow it to build its nest there.

The scriptures clearly teach that ADAM was not DECEIVED.. he was flat out disobedient.. and many can't seem to admit that today.

I agree with this largely. The serpent was more cunning than Eve and she fell for it, Adam just went along with Eve though the NIV translation suggests both were there at the time.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
 
Re: to WILL is present with me...

The matter of Ishmael, the son of the flesh, connected to the Old Covenant Law against the lawlessness we all factually have can be put in front of anyone and it still can NOT be seen.

Here is a little 'exercise' for you ET.

Allegorically put Jesus' Fact from Mark 4:15 in your RIGHT HAND.

Now, go back to the Garden, and apply Jesus' Words to Adam right from the very start, and tell me, using Mark 4:15, what might 'really' have happened to Adam from the exact instant Gods Words Blessed him.

Just step it through sequentially exactly as Jesus shows you in Mark 4:15.

If you are allowed to see, you will SEE what happened to Adam and you will never blame and accuse Adam, ever again. Because it will be as clear as the nose on your face what happened to him and every person who has ever lived since.

See what you come up with.

s

IF I am allowed to see... really ?

IF you're trying to tell me that YOU have never been disobedient.. that you have never sinned.. and that each and every time you had absolutely no choice in the matter.. that it wasn't a battle, but rather predetermined each and every time..

I'd say that you're the one who can't see the truth, or simply refuses to believe it.
 
Re: to WILL is present with me...

IF I am allowed to see... really ?

Just saying that exactly what happened to Adam happens to everyone who tries to look upon this matter of Adam using Mark 4:15 as a fact.

If you can see it for him you'll see it.

It's an exercise. Don't have to get all hot about it. If you can't you can't. There's nothing you can do about it.

s
 
I agree with this largely. The serpent was more cunning than Eve and she fell for it, Adam just went along with Eve though the NIV translation suggests both were there at the time.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

And we're told flat out by the Apostle Paul that Adam was not deceived.. and look at the punishment imposed upon HIM.. Romans 5 makes this perfectly clear..

IMO it's not being honest if we're led to believe that the devil made me do it and it's all predetermined each and every time..

Where in the world is the glory in that ?
 
Re: to WILL is present with me...

Just saying that exactly what happened to Adam happens to everyone who tries to look upon this matter of Adam using Mark 4:15 as a fact.

If you can see it for him you'll see it.

It's an exercise. Don't have to get all hot about it. If you can't you can't. There's nothing you can do about it.

s

I'm not hot about it smaller.. simply amazed so to speak that you hold your opinion on the matter in such high regard..

What's more amazing is that's your bottom line..

The DEVIL made me do it... each and every time.. it was predetermined by GOD and there's not anything that anyone can do about it but SEE IT ? ? ?

I wouldn't even have believed the bible if this is what it was all about.
 
Re: to WILL is present with me...

I'm not hot about it smaller.. simply amazed so to speak that you hold your opinion on the matter in such high regard..

What Jesus says happens, period. It happened to Adam 'exactly' as Jesus said it happened.

Whether a believer can reconcile that fact or not will remain somewhat irrelevant to the fact.

Certainly not 'my' fact being applied.

What's more amazing is that's your bottom line..

The DEVIL made me do it...
I've never made that claim either, but that seems to be what you always hear.

Why is that do you think?

btw did I tell you that I met Flip Wilson once and had a discussion with him? He was actually a pretty nice guy.

each and every time.. it was predetermined by GOD and there's not anything that anyone can do about it but SEE IT ? ? ?

It really is a pretty easy exercise. Quite refreshing actually.

I wouldn't even have believed the bible if this is what it was all about.
Well, that really was the Plan of God all along. I know it is somewhat out of date in todays modern mindset to accept what Gods Word says on this particular matter.

If you see the fact of Mark 4:15 for Adam you will also see how Paul sees this matter:

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience -

Yeah, God did it exactly ON PURPOSE.

You will also see your own condition prior to belief in faith:

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Yeah, that was YOU and I before God in Christ called us INTO His Body.

So, it may not fit the modern world all that much. But when it comes to Gods Words it's just a fact jack.

s
 
Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures..

If you''d like to preach your fatalistic and deterministic approach to the scriptures.. which is exactly what you're doing.. then go right ahead.. i'd say enjoy.. although imo there's not an ounce of joy in that perspective of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Re: Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures..

If you''d like to preach your fatalistic and deterministic approach to the scriptures..

That is only what you hear. I've never ever made those kinds of statements either.

Already stated that if believers can't see it I believe they will be saved anyway.

Trying to burn believers alive in fire ain't my bag.

Hey, do ya think there is also a connection there to this same subject? And why just about every church on the face of the planet seeks to do this to other believers outside their sects?!

And hey, do you think that might be why we have so much travail in the 'middle east?' Middle east. I love that term. Did you know 'east' in the text is the direction that evil comes from, allegorically speaking?

lol

s
 
Yeah I've heard it all.. I've heard it's not my fault.. and I've heard that the day of the Lord is here and now..

I've heard too much actually.. :)
 
And we're told flat out by the Apostle Paul that Adam was not deceived.. and look at the punishment imposed upon HIM.. Romans 5 makes this perfectly clear..

IMO it's not being honest if we're led to believe that the devil made me do it and it's all predetermined each and every time..

Where in the world is the glory in that ?

Thank you for simply restating my point. I assume we're in agreement.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
 
Yeah I've heard it all.. I've heard it's not my fault.. and I've heard that the day of the Lord is here and now..

I've heard too much actually..

Well, what can I say? It was kinda nice to NOT have to blame and accuse Adam for me. And that has also extended my view to others as well. It was a relief in my heart not to figure out a way to try to prove you were going to burn alive forever for not 'believing like me.'

s
 
Well, what can I say? It was kinda nice to NOT have to blame and accuse Adam for me.

Neither do I.. I simply agree with God in that I'm no different than Adam and that I too have been disobedient to Him.

And that has also extended my view to others as well. It was a relief in my heart not to figure out a way to try to prove you were going to burn alive forever for not 'believing like me.'

s

Whatever made you believe that in the first place ?
 
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