What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Holy Spirit

And Free,

I thought that from a 'trinitarian' point of view that the comforter, (Holy Spirit), COULDN'T be anything other than "GOD". You keep offering 'another' as being something different or seprerate. You point out that 'something' or 'thing' is the wrong interpretation, yet this is what you indicate by pointing out 'another'. Is there more than one God? Is there more than one Christ? Is the Spirit of Christ that dwells within us different somehow than the Spirit that dwelt within Christ Himself?
 
And I believe that this 'trinity' thing has made it impossible for those that accept it to understand God as anything other than Spirit. Because so much effort has been invested in trying to discern the 'oneness' of three entities, they have been unable to 'see' that God is much more than this idea. God is NOT 'just the Spirit of Christ', He is not 'just the Holy Spirit, He is not 'just Jesus Christ'. God Himself is light-years beyond our understanding at this point. We just simply DON'T know exactly what God's 'true' nature and form are. I don't have a problem with this. I don't have to know His exact form or nature. I know that He is LOVE and that this 'LOVE' is beyond our capacity right now.

God is NOT something that you can put into a box and dissect like an insect. He is SO LARGE that we have little idea of His capacity. Christ came and lived among us. NO, not as God, but as the SON OF GOD. 'God among us' DOES NOT MEAN GOD HIMSELF, but the Spirit of God. A living, breathing offering of His love. Christ was/is The Word. NO, not the physical Christ, but the Spiritual one. And that same Spirit is still with us. We have the Word with us within the words of Christ and His apostles. And the 'same' Spirit which filled Christ upon His baptism is the same Spirit that now can dwell with us. To deny this is to deny Christ.

And Free, if God were capable of over-looking our sins and smile upon us and see us as HIS SONS AND DAUGHTERS, why was Jesus Christ sent to start with. We had chosen to separate ourselves so far from His will that He was disgusted with us. He knew this would happen from the beginning and because of this sent prophets to foretell of this future sacrifice that would end this separation once and for all, Jesus Christ. Up until the ability of one to accept Christ as his savior, he was BOUND by the law. To sin was to separate oneself from God. Does God hear the prayers of the unrighteous? Does God even look upon those that follow a different master? NO, I did not ask you if He 'can', what I ask is 'does He'?

If sin makes the Son sick to see, then what of the Father? If we are commanded not to even 'speak' of the evil done by others, what does that tell you? Does God take part in sin? But if He were to know us as sinners, wouldn't that place Him in a position that we were told not to dwell?
We will be judged. Has that happened yet? Does God judge us at each moment, or will there be a time in the future where our actions are made open and at that time they be judged?

The ONLY thing that brought us back to God's ability to look upon us is Jesus Christ. For now, when He looks down upon us, He sees His Son each and every time He sees one that has accepted His Son into their heart.
 
Imagican said:
No, it's very complicated. Jesus is leaving but He's staying with us as a Comforter? That makes no sense. Also, Jesus refers to the Comforter in third person (as "him" and "he").

No, this is NOT what I said. I said that the 'comforter' was the same SPIRIT as that which filled Christ. And it does indeed make plenty of sense. Christ was filled with the Spirit of God. Regardless of ones belief of God being Christ or Christ being God, or whatever, there can be NO DOUBT that Christ was filled with the Spirit of God. I simply offered that the comforter is that same Spirit. NOT the same Christ, but the same Spirit which filled HIM. If Christ dwells within us, does that mean that the 'man', Jesus, lives within us, or that we can have an indwelling of the 'Spirit' of Christ? And Christ Himself stated that the 'comforter' would be 'left behind'. Come on man, He didn't state that He or God would 'produce' a 'new' Spirit, but that an 'existing Spirit' would be left behind. Where was this Spirit up until then? It dwelt with Christ Himself.
Click to expand...

Actually Imagican,...... Christ is the Spirit who dwells in us.

Scripture declares this.

1 Peter  1 : 11

"... Searching into what time or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ in them was making clear, testifying beforehand of the sufferings of Christ and the glories after these."

Notes - The highly respected Vaticanus MS omits "of Christ." This omission fits into the New Testament revelation concerning the Spirit.
However, the other authoritative MSS have of Christ in their text.
In the New Testament revelation the Spirit of Christ denotes the Spirit after Christ's resurrection (Rom. 8:9-11). Before Christ's resurrection, the Spirit who is not only the Spirit of God but the Spirit of Christ... was not yet (John 7:39).... The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God constituted through and with the death and resurrection of Christ for the application and impartation of Christ's death and resurrection to His believers. Although the constituting of the Spirit of Christ is dispensational  i.e., the Spirit of Christ was constituted dispensationally through and with Christ's death and resurrection in the New Testament time  the function of the Spirit of Christ is eternal, because He is the eternal Spirit (Heb. 9:14). This is like the cross of Christ: as an event, it was accomplished at the time of Christ's death, yet its function is eternal; hence, in the eternal sight of God, Christ was slain from the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8). In Old Testament times the Spirit of God, as the Spirit of Christ, made the time and the manner of time concerning Christ's death and resurrection clear to the prophets who were seeking and searching diligently concerning the sufferings and glories of Christ.


John  7 : 39,

"But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified."

Note - The Spirit of God was there from the beginning (Gen. 1:1-2), but at the time the Lord spoke this word, the Spirit as the Spirit of Christ (Rom. 8:9), the Spirit of Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:19), was not yet, because the Lord had not yet been glorified. Jesus was glorified when He was resurrected (Luke 24:26). After Jesus' resurrection, the Spirit of God became the Spirit of the incarnated, crucified, and resurrected Jesus Christ, who was breathed into the disciples by Christ in the evening of the day on which He was resurrected (20:22). The Spirit is now the "another Comforter," the Spirit of reality promised by Christ before His death (14:16-17). When the Spirit was the Spirit of God, He had only the divine element. After He became the Spirit of Jesus Christ through Christ's incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection, the Spirit had both the divine element and the human element, with all the essence and reality of the incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ. Hence, the Spirit is now the all-inclusive Spirit of Jesus Christ as the living water for us to receive (vv. 38-39).



This can be better understood when we come to see that God desires to get into man.

God placed Adam in front of the tree of life so that Adam would eat of this tree and become constituted with the essence of this tree, an essence that we can know know from the book of Revelation is just God Himself as life to man.

The tree of life is Jesus, and the fruit of this tree is Jesus as divine food for men to eat and become constituted with.

But through adam men lost access to this tree; which brings us to the Israelites in Egypt at the time of the first Passover, which is the shadow of the Lamb of God to come.

As a shadow everything that is involved with the shadow must be found in the reality of the shadow.

Jesus is the reality of the shadow, therefore the lamb of the passover is the shadow of Jesus.

Exodus 12:5-12,

Your lamb shall be without blemish, a year-old male; you may take it from the sheep or from the goats.

And you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month; and the whole congregation of the assembly of Israel shall kill it at twilight.

And they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and on the lintel of the houses in which they eat it.

AND THEY SHALL EAT THE FLESH IN THAT NIGHT, ROASTED WITH FIRE, AND THEY SHALL EAT IT WITH UNLEAVENED BREAD WITH BITTER HERBS.

Do not eat any of it raw or boiled at all with water, but roasted with fire - its head with its legs and with its inward parts.

And you shall not let any of it remain until the morning, but any of it that remains until the morning you shall burn with fire.

And this is how you shall eat it: with your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and you shall eat it in haste. It is Jehovah's passover.

For I will pass through the land of Egypt on that night and will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast. Also against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments. I am Jehovah."


..... AND THEY SHALL EAT THE FLESH IN THAT NIGHT, ROASTED WITH FIRE, AND THEY SHALL EAT IT WITH UNLEAVENED BREAD WITH BITTER HERBS.....

Many believers know that the blood of the Lamb represents the blood of the Lord which was shed on Calvary, but not so many know that the Christ that they received upon believing is the roasted flesh eaten, and that the bitter herbs signifies the sense of repentence that we have, and the eating of the unleavened bread signifies our willful rejection of evil (leaven) in our lives.

But note, the lamb had to go through a process in order that men might be able to eat it, so too did God need to go through a process in order that men may again have access to the tree of life (God) and eat of God.


The Spirit that we receive is more than that which was before the life, death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and enthronement of Jesus; today this Spirit is now the Life-giving Spirit who, because of the all-inclusive process that Jesus/God went through, can come to dwell in our regenerated spirit.


In love,
cj
 
Imagican said:
And Free,

I thought that from a 'trinitarian' point of view that the comforter, (Holy Spirit), COULDN'T be anything other than "GOD". You keep offering 'another' as being something different or seprerate. You point out that 'something' or 'thing' is the wrong interpretation, yet this is what you indicate by pointing out 'another'. Is there more than one God? Is there more than one Christ? Is the Spirit of Christ that dwells within us different somehow than the Spirit that dwelt within Christ Himself?
Click to expand...
Jesus' use of "another Comforter" clearly implies that the Holy Spirit is another like himslef, that he is also a Comforter. But the fact that he says "another" means that it is not him who is the other Comforter.

There is only one God, one Christ, and one Spirit, who dwelt in Christ and indwells all believers.
 
Free said:
Jesus' use of "another Comforter" clearly implies that the Holy Spirit is another like himslef, that he is also a Comforter. But the fact that he says "another" means that it is not him who is the other Comforter.

There is only one God, one Christ, and one Spirit, who dwelt in Christ and indwells all believers.
Click to expand...

Actually, if you study these verses and the words used you will find that you are weak in your understanding of what Jesus meant and of the triune nature of God.

John  14 : 16, "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever,..."

Note - The Greek word here means advocate, one alongside who takes care of our cause, our affairs.

The Greek word for Comforter is the same as that for Advocate in 1 John 2:1. Today we have both the Lord Jesus in the heavens and the Spirit (the Comforter) within us as our Advocate, who takes care of our case.

1 John  2 : 1, "My little children, these things I write to you that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous;"

Hope this helps you Free.

In love,
cj
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top