Homeless folk?

[for_his_glory]

All true Christians may be homeless one day.

May be homeless in those days as we are told by Jesus to flee the abomination Daniel spoke of in Daniel 7, but yet taken care of by God who will always supply our needs.

 

[Tessa]

Yes and we will just put all our trust in the Lord.
Going back to OP, it is hard to know the genuine homeless here. Some have clicked on to getting money from passers by while pretending to be homeless.
So I think it is better to give food than money.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Yes and we will just put all our trust in the Lord.
Going back to OP, it is hard to know the genuine homeless here. Some have clicked on to getting money from passers by while pretending to be homeless.
So I think it is better to give food than money.

Good idea Annie. (I hope that you don't mind that I call you that since you told me one of your other friends does :wink) That's an extremely good point.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Unfortunately there are a lot of dishonest people out there. Sad, but true.

 

[Tessa]

True April.

 

[Corn Pop]

I would have though America First means the establishment makes sure its own citizens in America has food and shelter first before it gives billions away in foreign aid.

 

[OzSpen]

A guy at church sometimes shows up on Sundays. I don't know if it's because of the church community, the sermons, or just that it's a safe place. But he comes in occasionally, and we all worry about him and how he's doing. Sometimes there's an injury with an explanation of a fight or hitting a wall and hurting his fist. Other times there's no explanation.

He's always welcome and I hope God's angels look after him. But it's sad to see.

NNS,

So what is your church doing to minister to this man's physical and emotional needs? Are you helping him with food?

What about shelter for the man? Is there a men's shelter near your church where he could be accommodated?

Jesus said:

31 “The Son of Man will come in all his glory. All the angels will come with him. Then he will sit in glory on his throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered in front of him. He will separate the people into two groups. He will be like a shepherd who separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep to his right and the goats to his left.​

​

​

34 “Then the King will speak to those on his right. He will say, ‘My Father has blessed you. Come and take what is yours. It is the kingdom prepared for you since the world was created. 35 I was hungry. And you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty. And you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger. And you invited me in. 36 I needed clothes. And you gave them to me. I was sick. And you took care of me. I was in prison. And you came to visit me.’​

​

37 “Then the people who have done what is right will answer him. ‘Lord,’ they will ask, ‘when did we see you hungry and feed you? When did we see you thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you as a stranger and invite you in? When did we see you needing clothes and give them to you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’​

​

40 “The King will reply, ‘What I’m about to tell you is true. Anything you did for one of the least important of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’​

​

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘You are cursed! Go away from me into the fire that burns forever. It has been prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 I was hungry. But you gave me nothing to eat. I was thirsty. But you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger. But you did not invite me in. I needed clothes. But you did not give me any. I was sick and in prison. But you did not take care of me.’​

​

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty and not help you? When did we see you as a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison and not help you?’​

​

45 “He will reply, ‘What I’m about to tell you is true. Anything you didn’t do for one of the least important of these, you didn’t do for me.’​

​

46 “Then they will go away to be punished forever. But those who have done what is right will receive eternal life” (Matt 25: 31-46 NIRV, emphasis added).​

Don't vv 44-46 answer your question as as what you/we do "for one of the least important of these, you didn’t do for me". It's the church's responsibility to deal with this man's sad situation. Discernment is needed but doing nothing is not an option.

That's how I see it.

Oz

 

[JohnDB]

The vast majority of "the homeless" here in America are homeless due to a blend of chemical dependency and mental illness.

Basically they are incapable of holding a job and have some kind of drug/alcohol habit at the same time. They are incredibly self destructive and have no compunction about destroying the lives of those they are involved with.
There are exceptions to every group...and I've met a few. People who are actually brilliant and don't have chemical dependency issues or even financial problems...but prefer the lack of responsibility that homelessness provides for them.

Basically the people who are homeless are consumed with themselves in some fashion. Those who are not are not going to make homelessness a career...they find one of the many ways off the street. They are not on a street corner or parking lot begging for money. Giving cash/food to a beggar only cements them in their situation for another day.

Jesus predicted that there were always going to be these sort in the world till the end of time. But we are encouraged to give to these not because it actually will solve the problem but because it's a means of disposing of wealth...the giver is the only one who benefits from giving...not the gifted.

 

[OzSpen]

The vast majority of "the homeless" here in America are homeless due to a blend of chemical dependency and mental illness.

Basically they are incapable of holding a job and have some kind of drug/alcohol habit at the same time. They are incredibly self destructive and have no compunction about destroying the lives of those they are involved with.
There are exceptions to every group...and I've met a few. People who are actually brilliant and don't have chemical dependency issues or even financial problems...but prefer the lack of responsibility that homelessness provides for them.

Basically the people who are homeless are consumed with themselves in some fashion. Those who are not are not going to make homelessness a career...they find one of the many ways off the street. They are not on a street corner or parking lot begging for money. Giving cash/food to a beggar only cements them in their situation for another day.

Jesus predicted that there were always going to be these sort in the world till the end of time. But we are encouraged to give to these not because it actually will solve the problem but because it's a means of disposing of wealth...the giver is the only one who benefits from giving...not the gifted.

John,

I do not find that to be an application of Matt 25:31-46.

I'm aware that Scriptures state:

• 'The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me' (Matt 26:11 NIV).
• Prov 14:31 (ESV): 'Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him'.
• Prov 19:17 (ESV): 'Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed'.
• Luke 14:13-14 (ESV): 'But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just".
• Luke 12:33-34 (ESV): 'Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also'.
• Prov 14:21 (ESV): 'Whoever despises his neighbor is a sinner, but blessed is he who is generous to the poor'.

Surely this verse is obvious in making ministry to the poor to be without partiality: Prov 14:31 (ESV): 'Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him'.

It doesn't read, ''Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him - as long as he doesn't have a blend of chemical dependency and mental illness and begs for food'.

Yes, Jesus predicted these kinds of people would be with us always. But he didn't say we are to do nothing to help them. At the final judgment of believers, Jesus told what would happen:

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty and not help you? When did we see you as a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison and not help you?’​

​

45 “He will reply, ‘What I’m about to tell you is true. Anything you didn’t do for one of the least important of these, you didn’t do for me' (Matt 25:44-45 NIRV).​

I have ministered on the streets of the inner city and counselled people like these about whom we are speaking for Teen Challenge. I know the challenges of working with the homeless, but I thank God for ministries like Teen Challenge that don't give up on young people who have addictions, mental health problems, living without food and are homeless.

Jesus told us to get involved with them.

Oz

 

[JohnDB]

John,

I do not find that to be an application of Matt 25:31-46.

I'm aware that Scriptures state:

• 'The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me' (Matt 26:11 NIV).
• Prov 14:31 (ESV): 'Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him'.
• Prov 19:17 (ESV): 'Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed'.
• Luke 14:13-14 (ESV): 'But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just".
• Luke 12:33-34 (ESV): 'Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also'.
• Prov 14:21 (ESV): 'Whoever despises his neighbor is a sinner, but blessed is he who is generous to the poor'.

Surely this verse is obvious in making ministry to the poor to be without partiality: Prov 14:31 (ESV): 'Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him'.

It doesn't read, ''Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him - as long as he doesn't have a blend of chemical dependency and mental illness and begs for food'.

Yes, Jesus predicted these kinds of people would be with us always. But he didn't say we are to do nothing to help them. At the final judgment of believers, Jesus told what would happen:

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty and not help you? When did we see you as a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison and not help you?’​

​

45 “He will reply, ‘What I’m about to tell you is true. Anything you didn’t do for one of the least important of these, you didn’t do for me' (Matt 25:44-45 NIRV).​

I have ministered on the streets of the inner city and counselled people like these about whom we are speaking for Teen Challenge. I know the challenges of working with the homeless, but I thank God for ministries like Teen Challenge that don't give up on young people who have addictions, mental health problems, living without food and are homeless.

Jesus told us to get involved with them.

Oz

I don't think that you really understand the homeless here in Nashville.
They don't have to be homeless. There are literally hundreds of millions of dollars at their disposal if they wish to get off the street. There are new clothes, health care, great food, and private bath facilities for the second week of being drug free. Then job assistance and access to banking. Eventually they are given a cell phone and car...and then if they are patient they are given a house.

Even living on the street they are regularly fed at 5 different locations (weekdays) and 12 on weekends. The fare can be anywhere from sandwiches to fast food to nice hot plate dinners.
There are two formal missions where the only rule is no drinking or drug use on property. There are clean clothes available to all. Lights out @10pm. breakfast is served and people have to be out by 7am. Most refuse to go inside. (I have done extensive work with the homeless)

The homeless here are very very comfortable with physical comforts. They aren't hungry. They don't have to wear rags. They can have employment when they wish. Health care, even mental health care is available to them.
The only thing is that we can't force them to eat or take care of themselves.

I have given many a struggling family a hand up...and they have done well with it. I've given employment and training and they run with it to be successful. I have no problem whatsoever with giving to the poor. One of my best friends is a Peurto Rico refugees that I trained. He used to be poor...very poor. Today he's middle class with middle class problems. He just needed a hand and an equal chance.
So I gave him one.

 

[OzSpen]

I don't think that you really understand the homeless here in Nashville.
They don't have to be homeless. There are literally hundreds of millions of dollars at their disposal if they wish to get off the street. There are new clothes, health care, great food, and private bath facilities for the second week of being drug free. Then job assistance and access to banking. Eventually they are given a cell phone and car...and then if they are patient they are given a house.

Even living on the street they are regularly fed at 5 different locations (weekdays) and 12 on weekends. The fare can be anywhere from sandwiches to fast food to nice hot plate dinners.
There are two formal missions where the only rule is no drinking or drug use on property. There are clean clothes available to all. Lights out @10pm. breakfast is served and people have to be out by 7am. Most refuse to go inside. (I have done extensive work with the homeless)

The homeless here are very very comfortable with physical comforts. They aren't hungry. They don't have to wear rags. They can have employment when they wish. Health care, even mental health care is available to them.
The only thing is that we can't force them to eat or take care of themselves.

I have given many a struggling family a hand up...and they have done well with it. I've given employment and training and they run with it to be successful. I have no problem whatsoever with giving to the poor. One of my best friends is a Peurto Rico refugees that I trained. He used to be poor...very poor. Today he's middle class with middle class problems. He just needed a hand and an equal chance.
So I gave him one.

John,

Of course I don't understand the particular needs of the homeless in Nashville. I don't live in Nashville. I have visited the Grand Old Opry as I'm a country music fan.

However, I don't need to have lived in Nashville to understand the homeless situation in the USA. I lived for 7 years in the USA and that showed me enough.

You have not addressed the issues I raised in #5 with verses such as: Prov 14:31 (ESV): 'Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him'.

Passing the buck from the church to 'there are literally hundreds of millions of dollars at their disposal if they wish to get off the street' is shirking the church's responsibility to the poor and needy. I'm of the view we should be up to our neck in ministry among the homeless.

Why? Jesus and the rest of Scripture exhort us to do so.

Oz

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

NNS,

So what is your church doing to minister to this man's physical and emotional needs? Are you helping him with food?

What about shelter for the man? Is there a men's shelter near your church where he could be accommodated?

Jesus said:

31 “The Son of Man will come in all his glory. All the angels will come with him. Then he will sit in glory on his throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered in front of him. He will separate the people into two groups. He will be like a shepherd who separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep to his right and the goats to his left.​

​

​

34 “Then the King will speak to those on his right. He will say, ‘My Father has blessed you. Come and take what is yours. It is the kingdom prepared for you since the world was created. 35 I was hungry. And you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty. And you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger. And you invited me in. 36 I needed clothes. And you gave them to me. I was sick. And you took care of me. I was in prison. And you came to visit me.’​

​

37 “Then the people who have done what is right will answer him. ‘Lord,’ they will ask, ‘when did we see you hungry and feed you? When did we see you thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you as a stranger and invite you in? When did we see you needing clothes and give them to you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’​

​

40 “The King will reply, ‘What I’m about to tell you is true. Anything you did for one of the least important of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’​

​

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘You are cursed! Go away from me into the fire that burns forever. It has been prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 I was hungry. But you gave me nothing to eat. I was thirsty. But you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger. But you did not invite me in. I needed clothes. But you did not give me any. I was sick and in prison. But you did not take care of me.’​

​

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty and not help you? When did we see you as a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison and not help you?’​

​

45 “He will reply, ‘What I’m about to tell you is true. Anything you didn’t do for one of the least important of these, you didn’t do for me.’​

​

46 “Then they will go away to be punished forever. But those who have done what is right will receive eternal life” (Matt 25: 31-46 NIRV, emphasis added).​

Don't vv 44-46 answer your question as as what you/we do "for one of the least important of these, you didn’t do for me". It's the church's responsibility to deal with this man's sad situation. Discernment is needed but doing nothing is not an option.

That's how I see it.

Oz

Fair point Oz. I need to reconsider the sitution and what I can offer and do. There are other church members who try to reach out to him, but that doesn't mean much for my actions. Thanks.

 

[JohnDB]

John,

Of course I don't understand the particular needs of the homeless in Nashville. I don't live in Nashville. I have visited the Grand Old Opry as I'm a country music fan.

However, I don't need to have lived in Nashville to understand the homeless situation in the USA. I lived for 7 years in the USA and that showed me enough.

You have not addressed the issues I raised in #5 with verses such as: Prov 14:31 (ESV): 'Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him'.

Passing the buck from the church to 'there are literally hundreds of millions of dollars at their disposal if they wish to get off the street' is shirking the church's responsibility to the poor and needy. I'm of the view we should be up to our neck in ministry among the homeless.

Why? Jesus and the rest of Scripture exhort us to do so.

Oz

Two of the rescue missions in Nashville are "Church funded" and receive no tax dollars. Many different churches in Nashville work together to make them happen. Others who don't are providing the wealth of rescourses to the homeless.

And proverbs isn't Law or prophecy...it's advise. We don't oppress the poor... unless making the poor too comfortable in their poverty is oppression.

 

[OzSpen]

And proverbs isn't Law or prophecy...it's advise.

John,

What's the purpose of the Book of Proverbs? The first 7 verses tell us:

These are the proverbs of Solomon. He was the son of David and the king of Israel.​

2 Proverbs teach you wisdom and instruct you.
They help you understand wise sayings.
3 They provide you with instruction and help you live wisely.
They lead to what is right and honest and fair.
4 They give understanding to childish people.
They give knowledge and good sense to those who are young.
5 Let wise people listen and add to what they have learned.
Let those who understand what is right get guidance.
6 What I’m teaching also helps you understand proverbs and stories.
It helps you understand the sayings and riddles of those who are wise​

7 If you really want to gain knowledge, you must begin by having respect for the Lord.
But foolish people hate wisdom and instruction (Prov 1:1-7 NIRV).​

I understand that that's more than giving 'advice', e.g.

2 Proverbs teach you wisdom and instruct you.​

They help you understand wise sayings.​

3 They provide you with instruction and help you live wisely.​

They lead to what is right and honest and fair.​

4 They give understanding to childish people....​

Oz

 

[Garion]

The vast majority of "the homeless" here in America are homeless due to a blend of chemical dependency and mental illness.

Basically they are incapable of holding a job and have some kind of drug/alcohol habit at the same time. They are incredibly self destructive and have no compunction about destroying the lives of those they are involved with.
There are exceptions to every group...and I've met a few. People who are actually brilliant and don't have chemical dependency issues or even financial problems...but prefer the lack of responsibility that homelessness provides for them.

Basically the people who are homeless are consumed with themselves in some fashion. Those who are not are not going to make homelessness a career...they find one of the many ways off the street. They are not on a street corner or parking lot begging for money. Giving cash/food to a beggar only cements them in their situation for another day.

Jesus predicted that there were always going to be these sort in the world till the end of time. But we are encouraged to give to these not because it actually will solve the problem but because it's a means of disposing of wealth...the giver is the only one who benefits from giving...not the gifted.

I really enjoyed that, thank you very much.

 

[Edisons Wolf]

You're thought

Save for the grace of God there go I.

What if God were one of them?
When they happen into my path I help. I donate to food drives that collect at the grocer. And to the foodbank.
If I were rich I would do more.

 

[Razeontherock]

How do YOU feel about these folks?

"They" come from all walks of life. Very many are highly intelligent, and accomplished; something went wrong that they just gave up.

Never make the mistake of giving them money! Always take them to go buy food. If they insist on just having coffee, that's a strong sign that you're dealing with an alcoholic. You can live off alcohol, it has lots of calories. It's slow suicide. They don't want the food to dilute their buzz, know coffee will work through their system much quicker, and probably are so deprived of solid food that it's uncomfortable to digest.

This means if you give them money, they'll never buy food with it; they'll buy more alcohol. They're not going to ask you for that!

 

[evenifigoalone]

Many things homeless people use do cost them a little money. For example, showers at a truck stop. You can print job applications at the library, but it costs around 25 cents per page. (At least where I live) Or to go into the store to buy some hygiene supplies. Drugs and booze aren't the only things homeless people might need to have money for.

 

[stovebolts]

There are lots of reasons why people become homeless. Many hard working families are 2 or 3 paychecks away from being homeless.

I dont know that I would take a wide swath of the brush to paint the homeless. Some are temporarily homeless while others it's a lifestyle for various reasons.

 

[evenifigoalone]

There are lots of reasons why people become homeless. Many hard working families are 2 or 3 paychecks away from being homeless.

I dont know that I would take a wide swath of the brush to paint the homeless. Some are temporarily homeless while others it's a lifestyle for various reasons.

My family easily could have become homeless had my uncle's daughter decided to take the home we lived in for over a decade. The home was in my grandmother's name and she intended to leave it to my mother, however she never got that in writing. So my uncle's had the legal rights to it. Thankfully she gave it to us, papers and all.

Property taxes easily could have had us homeless this year, and they're supposed to be even higher next year. We're working on appealing for a lower tax.