Homosexuality , Again, Just leave it alone.

[peace4all]

Any sinner can be saved. It is possible that a person who has fallen back into a particular sin is saved.

if that is so, then why the death penalty? if they are saved from their sins, then is it mans right to kill them? if they repent?

 

[bibleberean]

Any sinner can be saved. It is possible that a person who has fallen back into a particular sin is saved.

if that is so, then why the death penalty? if they are saved from their sins, then is it mans right to kill them? if they repent?

It depends on the sin.

When men repent they are saved from the eternal consequences of sin not necessarily the consequences in this life.

A man might repent of visiting prostitutes and be forgiven. That doesn't necessarily mean his STD's will vanish.

A bank robber might repent of robbing banks but that doesn't mean he doesn't have to do jail time.

1 Peter 2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

1 Peter 2:20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

 

[Relic]

.

If Jesus said to Peter, in reply to Peter for a thing such as not wanting Him to die as it is written of in the book of Matthew.

• Matthew 16:23 "But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. " [/*:m:e6f1b]

What then makes the person who practices homosexual behavior think Jesus wouldn't say the same thing to him in regard to such an abomination of this type of fornication?
Do they think Jesus wouldn't rebuke them for that? Do they think that Jesus just rebukes those who exchange money in the temple of the Lord or are against him dying on the cross? :o


Jesus came to save us FROM sin. He didn't come to save us to continue in sin for sin sake. He came to show us the way to overcome sin. To Go and sin no more. He didn't come to allow us to continue in sin! :-?

What makes people think that grace is a way to continue IN the way of sin? :o
Grace is God's intervention. Grace precedes mercy to/for those who are REPENTANT of their sin and then Go and sin no more and follow the HOLY SPIRIT, that which does not sin!
You GIVE your will over to the "HOLY" SPIRIT.

Sodomy or any type of Fornication is not HOLY! It is selfish and sinful.
When and IF "you commit", giving yourself over to by way of "your own carnal will" (selfish) , you GRIEVE the HOLY SPIRIT and have turned your back on the HOLY. YOU have then given your Will over to the evil/wicked spirit of sin, And have Not lived in the HOLY SPIRIT in that act you did! Without repentance from it, you are not going to overcome. Repentance is the way to overcoming sin!

"YOUR WILL" has all to do with the act you commit to! It is the WILL of selfish carnal man that you give yourself over to IF you participate in the act of fornication of any kind including sodomy and homosexual acts it is of your own will.

We are told to NOT GRIEVE THE "HOLY" SPIRIT.

You either are giving your will over to the HOLY SPIRIT or you are not!
Flip floppy Christians are workers of iniquity that Jesus spoke about as stated in the book of Luke.

• 
  Luke 13:27
  But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.[/*:m:e6f1b]

We all need to pray:

• Proverbs 28:3
  Draw me not away with the wicked, and with the workers of iniquity, which speak peace to their neighbours, but mischief is in their hearts. [/*:m:e6f1b]

Workers of iniquity do not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
It's your own choice!
What are you giving your Will over to?
Is it being given over to practicing fornication and sodomy? :o

There is no grace or mercy during the time a person is living IN the practice of sin. Grace and Mercy only happen when you have STOPPED the sinning. THEN, is when the Grace and Mercy have room to commence in the life of a person. It is the the one who gives his will over to the HOLY. It is not for the one who live IN the act of sin.

You stop your own "salvation from sin" from happening by not having and acting on the act of repentance from the sin you live by.
You are hindering your own progress, hindering your own growth, and clogging/confusing your own minds with thinking you can continue in sin thinking there aren't any consequences that come into being. And You are kidding yourself thinking you are HOLY when you don't commence to the action of repentance which leads you away from continuing in the sin. :-?


Since when does the unrepentant person have salvation from sin?
Salvation from sin, is a result of repentance. If you use your will to give it over to the HOLY SPIRIT, you don't stop the sin, you then show yourself as an unrepentant person who is not willing to give your life over to Christ like Spirit! You are then a blatant sinner showing yourself to be one who has no intention of repentance. :-?

Repentance is not a passive thing that requires no effort. It is an action taken, heartily!

Definition
to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

• 
  Luke 15:7
  I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
  
  Luke 15:10
  Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth. [/*:m:e6f1b]

Repent! GIVE UP "YOUR" SELFISHNESS of the Flesh, Your Carnal minded actions manifested through the flesh, which is where Homosexuality stems from, and Obesity due to gluttony!

REPENT. Without repentance... you are then living in your sins! You need to turn away from the sin and Go and Sin that sin No more

We get rid of the sin by "truly" repenting! Overcome through repentance and turn away from that sin you love so much!
That is where the redeeming grace and mercy of God manifest. It is not in the person who blatantly lives in their sin and refuses to give it up!

Beware!

Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.



I learned and am still learning with some things in my life, that being stubborn IN sin because of the love of it, is no way to Follow Jesus! That is not serving Christ. It is living in sin. Sinners need to repent. Learn what repenting is. It is not easy! It is one of the most difficult things to do! To give up sin! It is a cross to bear! Giving up sin!
To Go and Sin, no more! We can do it through GIVING up our own selfish WILL, Giving it over to the HOLY SPIRIT. Learning to abhor the sin.
To Go and Sin that sin no more.


.

 

[Relic]

Too many threads on the same subject! :-?

 

[bibleberean]

Too many threads on the same subject! :-?

I agree...

 

[itoldyounoalready]

I quit this is pointless talking to some people, it's absolutely pointless and taxing.

 

[bibleberean]

I quit this is pointless talking to some people, it's absolutely pointless and taxing.

I can deeply appreciate how you feel. :D

 

[Drew]

One thing is certain.

A Christian should not support or associate with any person that remains defiantly in sin.

Greetings BB:

Does this statement also apply to those Christians who possess wealth while at the same time knowing that others in our world die for lack of the basics? I think I know how you feel about this, but I ask the question for all to consider.

Hi Drew,

I understand your torment.

I certainly think that applies to you.

I think you should sell your computer and everything you own exept for one set of clothes give all the proceeds to the poor and then see if you have the inner peace you are so desperately seeking.

May God strengthen you to practice what you preach.

You have my support.

God bless you,

Robert

In other words, you do not have a counterargument to the claim that those who hold onto wealth while others suffer from want is a "person that remains defiantly in sin".

 

[Merry Menagerie]

A Christian should not support or associate with any person that remains defiantly in sin.

Although I agree with what you're saying here, after all, it is in the bible...one must be careful that one doesn't pick and choose the sin that they think should not be associated with. This means then that you should not associate with anyone who sins - this includes gossipers, backstabbers people with evil thoughts etc etc. Although it's hard to know who these people are because these sins aren't as obvious as 'homosexuality' so one would have to be able to read one's heart in order to know - and since none of us can do that then perhaps it's best to allow the Holy Spirit to discern and cease fellowship with that person.

You do realise that you can associate and be friends with someone without being in fellowship with them right? You can be in the same room with someone and showing them the love of God without actually being in fellowship with the person!

Just be careful that we're not viewing homosexuality as the 'worst' sin and not seeing sin as sin in general. After all God hates ALL sin - even yours!!!

 

[bibleberean]

No Drew,

I have hope that you will repent of your sin of holding onto wealth and will give all your goods to the poor and practice what you preach.

You are in my prayers,

Robert

P.S.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Repent my brother.

 

[bibleberean]

Merry Menagerie

I am aware that homosexuality isn't the only sin.

I won't hang out with murderers, adulterers, extortioners... either.

And most importantly I won't defend these sins. ;-)

 

[SputnikBoy]

[quote="Merry Menagerie":ec8fa]Homosexuality is a sin like any other sin. The bible says so. When I have a bad thought about someone, it doesn't hurt anyone else but it's a sin also.

Menag ...one question. Are you heterosexual? If the answer is "yes", then what is it about you that makes you heterosexual? You'll notice that I didn't ask you whether or not you're a murderer, or a thief, or an adulterer. I asked if you're a heterosexual. I hope this doesn't embarrass you but would you mind answering the question?

Huh?

oookay Yes I am heterosexual and I know I am because I lust after men (one man in particular ;) ) and not women.

And why didn't you ask if I was a murderer? or a theif etc etc?

Thanks for answering the question. I didn’t ask you if you were a murderer, or a thief, or an adulterer because these items are based on choice, unlike one’s sexuality which is acquired ‘naturally’. You don’t see heterosexuality as being a sin whereas you see the others as being sins. You had nothing to do with your sexuality but you have everything to do with choosing to murder, to steal, or to commit adultery. I mean, you may be driven by lust or power to commit ‘sexual offenses’ (to commit sin) but your actual ‘sexuality’ is not ‘an offense’ in itself. Do you not agree?

I was amused at your 'lusting after men' remark, by the way. Why you just didn't use the word 'attracted to men', I'm not sure. A slip of the tongue, no doubt. :wink:

While you and other Christian diehards will agree without question that one’s heterosexuality is determined by nature, not by nurture, you will no doubt refuse on the other hand to concede to the possibility that so too is one’s homosexuality. Right? Homosexuality is seen to be a choice issue by those who have no clue as to the complexities of it all. To my knowledge, the Bible is absolutely silent in the area of genetics, even though genetics have always played a major role in determining the character traits of every single human being ever born.

What about the genetic makeup of Jesus? Could He have sinned if He had wanted to? Or, was it a feature of His genetic makeup that He was incapable of even WANTING to sin? He is the Son of God after all. Did Jesus not sin through His own efforts not to do so or did His being the Son of God give Him a very decided advantage over us?

The Bible seems to be more concerned with the sinful nature of the individual than in one’s genetic makeup. The ‘sin’ is the result of choice, one’s genetic makeup is not. Whatever any self proclaimed Bible 'expert' on this forum think about this issue, I do believe that God will take MANY things into consideration when He makes the final judgment on us all. Whether this passes the approval of the 'God squad' or not, this is MY take on this issue.

Here is a suggestion to all of of those who have enough scriptural 'head knowledge' to sink a battle-ship. Be careful with your knowledge since so much more is expected of you. And ...there is no point in one's having scriptural head knowledge if it isn't connected to one's heart.[/quote:ec8fa]

 

[bibleberean]

The final insult to God and the bible. "God didn't know what He was doing when He gave us the scriptures. He forgot mention the fact that it was His fault that men sin because of the genetic make up He gave them".

Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

Colossians 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

God made man with a sexual nature. Men are capable of being attracted to many women and yet God holds man accountable for keeping his nature under control.

Any adulterer or woman user could justify his behaviour by saying "God made me this way".

The arguments of the world of the flesh and the devil are very clever are they not?

Colossians 2:4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.

 

[SputnikBoy]

If you believe that I've got it wrong, BB, then pray for me rather than imply that I'm in league with the devil. You're a wretched sinner ...the same as I am. The only difference is that you don't know it!

 

[Merry Menagerie]

[quote="Merry Menagerie":7f0a4]Homosexuality is a sin like any other sin. The bible says so. When I have a bad thought about someone, it doesn't hurt anyone else but it's a sin also.

Menag ...one question. Are you heterosexual? If the answer is "yes", then what is it about you that makes you heterosexual? You'll notice that I didn't ask you whether or not you're a murderer, or a thief, or an adulterer. I asked if you're a heterosexual. I hope this doesn't embarrass you but would you mind answering the question?

Huh?

oookay Yes I am heterosexual and I know I am because I lust after men (one man in particular ;) ) and not women.

And why didn't you ask if I was a murderer? or a theif etc etc?

Thanks for answering the question. I didn’t ask you if you were a murderer, or a thief, or an adulterer because these items are based on choice, unlike one’s sexuality which is acquired ‘naturally’.

Oh I see where you are going. Fortunately for me I believe that all sin is voluntary and none are naturally aquired. Why would God make something a sin that one couldn't help but be born with? Next we'll see pedophiles playing the dna card. ppfftttt.

You don’t see heterosexuality as being a sin whereas you see the others as being sins.

I see them all as sins

You had nothing to do with your sexuality but you have everything to do with choosing to murder, to steal, or to commit adultery. I mean, you may be driven by lust or power to commit ‘sexual offenses’ (to commit sin) but your actual ‘sexuality’ is not ‘an offense’ in itself. Do you not agree?

Everyone's sexuality is that of the heterosexual variety. I believe that Homosexuals choose to be homosexuals.

I was amused at your 'lusting after men' remark, by the way. Why you just didn't use the word 'attracted to men', I'm not sure. A slip of the tongue, no doubt. :wink:

Who cares! You got the message though right? Although I must say that I'm attracted to women as well but I don't lust after them - there is a difference

While you and other Christian diehards will agree without question that one’s heterosexuality is determined by nature, not by nurture, you will no doubt refuse on the other hand to concede to the possibility that so too is one’s homosexuality. Right?

Yep because I refuse to believe that God would that stupid as to make something that happens by nature a sin - that's like making 'blue eyes' a sin.

Homosexuality is seen to be a choice issue by those who have no clue as to the complexities of it all. To my knowledge, the Bible is absolutely silent in the area of genetics, even though genetics have always played a major role in determining the character traits of every single human being ever born.

And yet they have done studies on twins with the same dna, one was a homosexual and the other not and came to the conclusion that it wasn't genetic (since they had the same dna). Also I prefer to go by what the bible say. Homosexuality is a sin! That is all! God is not a moron! He would not make something a sin that one couldn't help.

What about the genetic makeup of Jesus? Could He have sinned if He had wanted to? Or, was it a feature of His genetic makeup that He was incapable of even WANTING to sin? He is the Son of God after all. Did Jesus not sin through His own efforts not to do so or did His being the Son of God give Him a very decided advantage over us?

Jesus was sinless because he was God and God is sinless.

The Bible seems to be more concerned with the sinful nature of the individual than in one’s genetic makeup. The ‘sin’ is the result of choice, one’s genetic makeup is not.

And that's why I don't believe homosexuality has anything to do with genetics - either that or God made a huuuuuuuuge mistake. Which one do you believe, is more plausable?

Whatever any self proclaimed Bible 'expert' on this forum think about this issue, I do believe that God will take MANY things into consideration when He makes the final judgment on us all. Whether this passes the approval of the 'God squad' or not, this is MY take on this issue.

Actually I agree with you on this - as I believe it's the intent of one's heart that matters and only God sees that. That's why I never judge the people.

Here is a suggestion to all of of those who have enough scriptural 'head knowledge' to sink a battle-ship. Be careful with your knowledge since so much more is expected of you. And ...there is no point in one's having scriptural head knowledge if it isn't connected to one's heart.

[/quote:7f0a4]

I agree with you. But one needs to be careful that one isn't being influenced by the things of the world more than God. God didn't make a mistake!

And for your information I believe that there are those who believe that there is a gene out there that makes on more proned to 'violence'? What do you say to that? Does that make murder not a sin anymore then? Because Joe Blogs had the 'murder' gene? No way! Here's a little secret for you, even if it was true and sins were the cause of a gene mutation, God has the answer anyway....Jesus Christ!!!! If one repents then I believe that JEsus can heal any mutant gene that would CAUSE one to sin - thus giving the person free will not to sin. What do you say to that? :wink:

 

[Drew]

Greetings BB (and others):

Question:

Is it a sin for a Christian to knowingly allow a person to die from starvation or illness when you have the power to save their life through an act of generosity that would not endanger your own survival, but would only reduce the level of enjoyment of your own life?

I have this image in my mind of someone being questioned at the gates of heaven about living a life of wealth in a world filled with such want. When told of all those whose lives that wealth could have saved, I can imagine this person leafing through their Bible saying: "Look God, there is no verse that directly says 'thou shalt not have wealth'" or "Look at this verse, which says that you blessed so and so with wealth". It will all ring pretty shallow, I think, when the faces of those who died needlessly are shown to that person.

I am deeply troubled by this issue. I am as guilty as the rest of those Christians who hang onto wealth - but at least I am honestly starting to face this issue. It seems insane to me that this is an issue over which we even need to resort to the Scriptures. I don't need to go to Bible college to know that we all have a moral obligation to make sure every human being has the basics of life before we spend a single dollar on big screens TVs, SUVs, or diamond rings.

 

[SputnikBoy]

[quote="Merry Menagerie":eedec]

[quote="Merry Menagerie":eedec]Homosexuality is a sin like any other sin. The bible says so. When I have a bad thought about someone, it doesn't hurt anyone else but it's a sin also.

Menag ...one question. Are you heterosexual? If the answer is "yes", then what is it about you that makes you heterosexual? You'll notice that I didn't ask you whether or not you're a murderer, or a thief, or an adulterer. I asked if you're a heterosexual. I hope this doesn't embarrass you but would you mind answering the question?

Huh?

oookay Yes I am heterosexual and I know I am because I lust after men (one man in particular ;) ) and not women.

And why didn't you ask if I was a murderer? or a theif etc etc?

Thanks for answering the question. I didn’t ask you if you were a murderer, or a thief, or an adulterer because these items are based on choice, unlike one’s sexuality which is acquired ‘naturally’.

Oh I see where you are going. Fortunately for me I believe that all sin is voluntary and none are naturally aquired. Why would God make something a sin that one couldn't help but be born with? Next we'll see pedophiles playing the dna card. ppfftttt.

Please stay on topic. No red herrings, please.

You don’t see heterosexuality as being a sin whereas you see the others as being sins.

I see them all as sins

You see heterosexuality as a sin?

You had nothing to do with your sexuality but you have everything to do with choosing to murder, to steal, or to commit adultery. I mean, you may be driven by lust or power to commit ‘sexual offenses’ (to commit sin) but your actual ‘sexuality’ is not ‘an offense’ in itself. Do you not agree?

Everyone's sexuality is that of the heterosexual variety. I believe that Homosexuals choose to be homosexuals.

Your believing doesn't make it so.

I was amused at your 'lusting after men' remark, by the way. Why you just didn't use the word 'attracted to men', I'm not sure. A slip of the tongue, no doubt. :wink:

Who cares! You got the message though right? Although I must say that I'm attracted to women as well but I don't lust after them - there is a difference

Well, I realize that I'm knitpicking here but it might be a good thing not to lust ...period.

While you and other Christian diehards will agree without question that one’s heterosexuality is determined by nature, not by nurture, you will no doubt refuse on the other hand to concede to the possibility that so too is one’s homosexuality. Right?

Yep because I refuse to believe that God would that stupid as to make something that happens by nature a sin - that's like making 'blue eyes' a sin.

Unfortunately there is much evidence that God 'makes' many imperfect human beings ...if it is indeed God who 'makes' them to begin with.

Homosexuality is seen to be a choice issue by those who have no clue as to the complexities of it all. To my knowledge, the Bible is absolutely silent in the area of genetics, even though genetics have always played a major role in determining the character traits of every single human being ever born.

And yet they have done studies on twins with the same dna, one was a homosexual and the other not and came to the conclusion that it wasn't genetic (since they had the same dna). Also I prefer to go by what the bible say. Homosexuality is a sin! That is all! God is not a moron! He would not make something a sin that one couldn't help.

That's assuming, of course, that one's sexual orientation IS a sin. Oh dear ...did I just put my foot in it? Does my questioning this give the mods an excuse to close this thread down or is everyone big enough to acknowledge that we just don't know all of the answers?

What about the genetic makeup of Jesus? Could He have sinned if He had wanted to? Or, was it a feature of His genetic makeup that He was incapable of even WANTING to sin? He is the Son of God after all. Did Jesus not sin through His own efforts not to do so or did His being the Son of God give Him a very decided advantage over us?

Jesus was sinless because he was God and God is sinless.

So, Jesus DID have a decided advantage over the rest of us?

The Bible seems to be more concerned with the sinful nature of the individual than in one’s genetic makeup. The ‘sin’ is the result of choice, one’s genetic makeup is not.

And that's why I don't believe homosexuality has anything to do with genetics - either that or God made a huuuuuuuuge mistake. Which one do you believe, is more plausable?

This issue is far too complex than for you to 'resolve it' with such a simplistic response. Does God make a huge mistake when he 'makes' a cripple, a blind child, a deaf child, etc. Or, since these defects are not considered 'sins', does that therefore get God off the hook?

Incidentally, there ARE some Christians who DO believe that ANY defect is the result of sin. They likewise spurn that person. True! Thank God most mainstream Christians are not so judgmental toward others who are outside the norm ... ;-)

Whatever any self proclaimed Bible 'expert' on this forum think about this issue, I do believe that God will take MANY things into consideration when He makes the final judgment on us all. Whether this passes the approval of the 'God squad' or not, this is MY take on this issue.

Actually I agree with you on this - as I believe it's the intent of one's heart that matters and only God sees that. That's why I never judge the people.

Good. Except you ARE judging homosexuals.

Here is a suggestion to all of of those who have enough scriptural 'head knowledge' to sink a battle-ship. Be careful with your knowledge since so much more is expected of you. And ...there is no point in one's having scriptural head knowledge if it isn't connected to one's heart.[/color]

[/quote:eedec]

I agree with you. But one needs to be careful that one isn't being influenced by the things of the world more than God. God didn't make a mistake!

If God is indeed behind the birth of every living thing, then He certainly DOES make mistakes on a daily basis!

And for your information I believe that there are those who believe that there is a gene out there that makes on more proned to 'violence'? What do you say to that?

I don't have a pat answer to a question that is so complex. Could be. Don't knock it simply because you don't like it.

Does that make murder not a sin anymore then? Because Joe Blogs had the 'murder' gene? No way!

The issue here is one's sexual attraction to the same gender.

Here's a little secret for you, even if it was true and sins were the cause of a gene mutation, God has the answer anyway....Jesus Christ!!!!

Thanks for sharing your insight with me, Menag. I really hadn't known that secret. The average Christian's idea of Jesus Christ is to make the sinner squirm with scriptures that condemn them to hell. Besides that, your answer is - yet again - far too simplistic. This IS rocket science and requires an answer that goes beyond 'strike a match and light the fuse.'

If one repents then I believe that JEsus can heal any mutant gene that would CAUSE one to sin - thus giving the person free will not to sin. What do you say to that? :wink:

I think you're trying to be clever, Menag. Is it working for you, do YOU think?[/quote:eedec]

 

[Merry Menagerie]

[quote="Merry Menagerie":ca10c]

[quote="Merry Menagerie":ca10c]Homosexuality is a sin like any other sin. The bible says so. When I have a bad thought about someone, it doesn't hurt anyone else but it's a sin also.

Menag ...one question. Are you heterosexual? If the answer is "yes", then what is it about you that makes you heterosexual? You'll notice that I didn't ask you whether or not you're a murderer, or a thief, or an adulterer. I asked if you're a heterosexual. I hope this doesn't embarrass you but would you mind answering the question?

Huh?

oookay Yes I am heterosexual and I know I am because I lust after men (one man in particular ;) ) and not women.

And why didn't you ask if I was a murderer? or a theif etc etc?

Thanks for answering the question. I didn’t ask you if you were a murderer, or a thief, or an adulterer because these items are based on choice, unlike one’s sexuality which is acquired ‘naturally’.

Oh I see where you are going. Fortunately for me I believe that all sin is voluntary and none are naturally aquired. Why would God make something a sin that one couldn't help but be born with? Next we'll see pedophiles playing the dna card. ppfftttt.

Please stay on topic. No red herrings, please.

Ha ha haaaaaaa typical! Mark my words, it will be the next thing that will come out - you watch!

[quote:ca10c]You don’t see heterosexuality as being a sin whereas you see the others as being sins.

I see them all as sins

You see heterosexuality as a sin? [/quote:ca10c]

Oops no sorry. I thought that read homosexuality - my mistake. No I don't see heterosexuality as a sin because the bible doesn't say that it's a sin.

[quote:ca10c]You had nothing to do with your sexuality but you have everything to do with choosing to murder, to steal, or to commit adultery. I mean, you may be driven by lust or power to commit ‘sexual offenses’ (to commit sin) but your actual ‘sexuality’ is not ‘an offense’ in itself. Do you not agree?

Everyone's sexuality is that of the heterosexual variety. I believe that Homosexuals choose to be homosexuals.

Your believing doesn't make it so.[/quote:ca10c]

But God can't seem to convince you!

[quote:ca10c]I was amused at your 'lusting after men' remark, by the way. Why you just didn't use the word 'attracted to men', I'm not sure. A slip of the tongue, no doubt. :wink:

Who cares! You got the message though right? Although I must say that I'm attracted to women as well but I don't lust after them - there is a difference

Well, I realize that I'm knitpicking here but it might be a good thing not to lust ...period.[/quote:ca10c]

I'm sure it's ok to lust after one's spouse :P

[quote:ca10c]While you and other Christian diehards will agree without question that one’s heterosexuality is determined by nature, not by nurture, you will no doubt refuse on the other hand to concede to the possibility that so too is one’s homosexuality. Right?

Yep because I refuse to believe that God would that be stupid as to make something that happens by nature a sin - that's like making 'blue eyes' a sin.

Unfortunately there is much evidence that God 'makes' many imperfect human beings ...if it is indeed God who 'makes' them to begin with. [/quote:ca10c]

But he doesn't make something a sin then make people born with the tendancy to commit that sin against their will. He's not an idiot.

[quote:ca10c]Homosexuality is seen to be a choice issue by those who have no clue as to the complexities of it all. To my knowledge, the Bible is absolutely silent in the area of genetics, even though genetics have always played a major role in determining the character traits of every single human being ever born.

And yet they have done studies on twins with the same dna, one was a homosexual and the other not and came to the conclusion that it wasn't genetic (since they had the same dna). Also I prefer to go by what the bible say. Homosexuality is a sin! That is all! God is not a moron! He would not make something a sin that one couldn't help.

That's assuming, of course, that one's sexual orientation IS a sin. Oh dear ...did I just put my foot in it? Does my questioning this give the mods an excuse to close this thread down or is everyone big enough to acknowledge that we just don't know all of the answers?[/quote:ca10c]

The bible says that homosexuality is a sin - that should be enough for you. There are no ifs buts or maybes about it - it's a sin.

[quote:ca10c]What about the genetic makeup of Jesus? Could He have sinned if He had wanted to? Or, was it a feature of His genetic makeup that He was incapable of even WANTING to sin? He is the Son of God after all. Did Jesus not sin through His own efforts not to do so or did His being the Son of God give Him a very decided advantage over us?

Jesus was sinless because he was God and God is sinless.

So, Jesus DID have a decided advantage over the rest of us?[/quote:ca10c]

What's this 'advantage' thing? You sound like a spoilt brat "It's not fair!!! Jesus had the advantage over us *stomps feet*" He's our saviour, he needed to be able to resist all sin in order to redeem us from ours.

[quote:ca10c]The Bible seems to be more concerned with the sinful nature of the individual than in one’s genetic makeup. The ‘sin’ is the result of choice, one’s genetic makeup is not.

And that's why I don't believe homosexuality has anything to do with genetics - either that or God made a huuuuuuuuge mistake. Which one do you believe, is more plausable?

This issue is far too complex than for you to 'resolve it' with such a simplistic response. Does God make a huge mistake when he 'makes' a cripple, a blind child, a deaf child, etc. Or, since these defects are not considered 'sins', does that therefore get God off the hook?[/quote:ca10c]

Again, he did not make sins that one can't help but make. Yes it is a simplistic answer, you're complicating it all because you've succombed to the deception of the world. This is what the world wants you to think so that you think homosexuality is alright and you accept it. The bible clearly says that it's not - enough said!

Incidentally, there ARE some Christians who DO believe that ANY defect is the result of sin. They likewise spurn that person. True! Thank God most mainstream Christians are not so judgmental toward others who are outside the norm ... ;-)

A defect such as 'down's syndrome' or 'blindeness' is not a sin. It is not a sin to be blind. It is not a sin to be born with no arms. It's not a sin to be born with an intellectual disability. But it IS a sin to be homosexual.

[quote:ca10c]Whatever any self proclaimed Bible 'expert' on this forum think about this issue, I do believe that God will take MANY things into consideration when He makes the final judgment on us all. Whether this passes the approval of the 'God squad' or not, this is MY take on this issue.

Actually I agree with you on this - as I believe it's the intent of one's heart that matters and only God sees that. That's why I never judge the people.

Good. Except you ARE judging homosexuals. [/quote:ca10c]

No I'm not. Can you show me where I have said to a homosexual that they are going to hell please? What I have said was that the bible says that homosexuality is a sin. I've also said that murder is a sin. And having bad thoughts about people too. I have not judged homosexuals nor have I judged murderers, or people with bad thoughts.

If you can show me where I have condemned a homosexual (or any sinner on this forum) to hell then I will gladly appologise. But if you can't then you can kindly keep your peace. I would prefer that you refrain from accusing me of doing something I didn't do please.

[quote:ca10c]Here is a suggestion to all of of those who have enough scriptural 'head knowledge' to sink a battle-ship. Be careful with your knowledge since so much more is expected of you. And ...there is no point in one's having scriptural head knowledge if it isn't connected to one's heart.[/color]

[/quote:ca10c]

I agree with you. But one needs to be careful that one isn't being influenced by the things of the world more than God. God didn't make a mistake!

If God is indeed behind the birth of every living thing, then He certainly DOES make mistakes on a daily basis![/quote:ca10c]

He did not make a mistake at making homosexuality a sin then creating homosexuals.

And for your information I believe that there are those who believe that there is a gene out there that makes on more proned to 'violence'? What do you say to that?

I don't have a pat answer to a question that is so complex. Could be. Don't knock it simply because you don't like it.

Sure you have an answer - the same one you use for homosexuality. Or are trying to have it both ways because it suits your purposes?

Does that make murder not a sin anymore then? Because Joe Blogs had the 'murder' gene? No way!

The issue here is one's sexual attraction to the same gender.

The issue here is whether you're going to believe God or succumb to the lies of the world.

Here's a little secret for you, even if it was true and sins were the cause of a gene mutation, God has the answer anyway....Jesus Christ!!!!

Thanks for sharing your insight with me, Menag. I really hadn't known that secret. The average Christian's idea of Jesus Christ is to make the sinner squirm with scriptures that condemn them to hell. Besides that, your answer is - yet again - far too simplistic. This IS rocket science and requires an answer that goes beyond 'strike a match and light the fuse.'

I'm sorry but the answer IS simple. It is a black and white answer - you have put the grey in there ....not God!!! Homosexuality is a sin - that's what the bible says. I'm amazed at you, you being the one to promote the keeping of the sabbath day because you claim it's what the bible says then when the bible says something so simple that is a sin...you argue the point! I'm just amazed that you'd do that, I didn't think you the type. Shows what I know about people hey ;)

If one repents then I believe that JEsus can heal any mutant gene that would CAUSE one to sin - thus giving the person free will not to sin. What do you say to that? :wink:

I think you're trying to be clever, Menag. Is it working for you, do YOU think?

[/quote:ca10c][/quote]

Nah, not clever...just speaking truth into the situation my friend. And yes it has worked, whether or not I see the result

 

[bibleberean]

Being attracted to someone is not a sin.

Lusting after someone is a sin.

Matthew 5:27-28 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

A man being attracted to a woman he is not married to in the sense that he finds her a godly woman or is a pleasent person is not a sin

A man being attracted to a man for godly fellowship or friendship is not a sin.

If men loving men and women loving women was a sin in itself then we are all homosexuals.

It is perverting relationships by engaging in perverse sexual activity or cultivating the desire in your heart (lust) outside of marriage that is sinful.

An umarried man or woman may be interested in having a relationship with someone with marriage in mind. The interest becomes tainted when the desire to have sex with the person is perverted by cultivating lust with the intent on having a sexual encounter without the commitment of marriage.

Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

It is no sin to see that another person is physically attractive and that the person has beauty.

It is a sin to cultivate sexual desire for the purpose of having illicit sex.

The bible teaches that homosexual acts is an abomination before God.

The bible teaches that marriage is between a man and a woman.

The words of Christ...

Mark 10:7-8 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

If what the bible teaches and the TOS of these forums offends some people perhaps they should consider moving on.

 

[Relic]

.

• "Go and sin no more."
  Jesus said it.
  If He thought we had no way to NOT sin anymore, He wouldn't have said, "Go and sin no more."

Jesus gives everyone a way to overcome and to "Go and sin no more."
Yes, even the homosexual, the murderer, the adulterer, the pervert, yes, any type of sin can be overcome! The sinner can "Go and sin no more."
Jesus wouldn't have told anyone to God and sin no more if He didn't think it was possible for them to do so! But he did! He said it and it IS possible!
We have the capability to God and sin no more! Jesus is not a liar! If He said it to one woman, I believe it for me also! And He proves true every time I APPLY the Faith IN HIS POWER to work in my life to wipe out that sin! Victory in Christ Jesus! Any sinner can be renewed to be washed clean. A sinner no more! But a saint IN CHRIST JESUS.
It is a daily process! We are convicted and purged of those things that are revealed to us through the Word of God. The Holy Spirit is our helper to overcome sin. Jesus is the way and the truth and the life! The only way to get over your selfish carnal minded sins!
The Holy Spirit teaches you how to respect your body and others! Listen to it!
If only people would allow the process to take place and stop being so stubborn and hardhearted in the sins of selfishness.

The point is that when our sins are revealed to us, we are to REPENT of them and "Go and sin no more."

If you are living in the act of homosexuality or any other type of sin, you are not repentant! You are living in sin!

REPENT and be HUMBLED
PERSEVERE!
DON'T GIVE UP THE FIGHT TO OVERCOME THE THINGS OF THIS WORLD!
Those things that are not of Godly character! You must give them up!
Take up your cross and follow Jesus! Walk fresh forward without repeating that sin. "Go and sin no more." If Jesus didn't think it was possible he wouldn't have said it!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I overcame the sins that so vexed me a few years ago! They are left in the past! And Thanks to God they are staying there! Dead and burned in the lake of fire! I am purged of them! Washed clean to Go and sin that sin no more!
You can do it too! It is possible!

And now, I am being purged of some other things in my life. I am being washed clean of the things, the sins, that are revealed to me as they are revealed to me! To resist the whiles of the devil! Daily! Trust God! In due time!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

• Jesus said, "Take up your cross and follow me."
  If He thought we had no way to carry our own cross and follow Him, He wouldn't have said, ]"Take up your cross and follow me."

If you aren't willing to GIVE your "will" over to the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ, you aren't getting the message!
Ask yourself if you are being stubborn in loving your sins more than you are willing to nail them to the cross (to give them up) and follow and walk with Jesus (in the HOLY SPIRIT) ?
The problem with some is that they are stubborn and refuse to give up anything. They are too in love with being selfish and refuse to GIVE IT UP! They haven't learned what true repentance is, nor are they strong enough in faith in the power of the HOLY SPIRIT to master it. We are masters over our sins, when we Walk with Christ Jesus!
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Faith in the Word of God is the power of God that Jesus professed to us.
"O, Ye of little faith..." Jesus knew without total faith, there is no healing, no miracle, no resurrected life. And if you have no faith in overcoming your sin, you will remain in that sin! You must be willing to GIVE It up. And You must be willing to be humble enough to follow Jesus, to listen to the guidance of the HOLY Spirit, and obey. Without that humbleness, you are stayed, lost to the sin you so love and refuse to GIVe UP. It is a sacrifice to give up your sin! That is part of carrying your own cross!

• The Word of God is that which professes for us to
  Humble ourselves (Give your will over to the will of God)
  by the Renewing of the mind (taking on the mind of Christ's Holy Spirit)
  
  THe Word of God is that which professes for us to be people of
  Godly Character
  to to be
  Humble
  Accountable
  Responsible
  [/b]

The person who hears the voice of the Holy Spirit listens and repents of the sin that is revealed to them. They do not hold onto it and perform it any longer. They GIVE IT UP. Nail it to the cross. And the blood of Jesus washes clean. (meaning the sins of old are left in the past.) You walk fresh in the baptism of the Holy Spirit. When you are washed you don't dirty yourself up with that sin anymore! You stop the sin! Buried, dead! You don't do it anymore! The Holy Spirit is what you follow, not the sin!


.