Homosexuality , Again, Just leave it alone.

[Merry Menagerie]

Merry Menagerie

I am aware that homosexuality isn't the only sin.

I won't hang out with murderers, adulterers, extortioners... either.

And most importantly I won't defend these sins. ;-)

Do you know without a shadow of a doubt that every person that you 'hang out with' isn't an adulterer? Do you know that they don't have bad thoughts about people? Do you know that they are not really child molesterers or liars? Do you know that they don't really go home and yell and scream obscenities at their spouses? If not then how can you say that you don't hang out with sinners? WE ALL HANG OUT WITH SINNERS - WE are sinners also. Don't think for a moment that you don't associate with sinners - that's the biggest mistake a christian could make. No sin is worse than any other sin - remember that!

 

[bibleberean]

Do you know without a shadow of a doubt that every person that you 'hang out with' isn't an adulterer? Do you know that they don't have bad thoughts about people? Do you know that they are not really child molesterers or liars? Do you know that they don't really go home and yell and scream obscenities at their spouses? If not then how can you say that you don't hang out with sinners? WE ALL HANG OUT WITH SINNERS - WE are sinners also. Don't think for a moment that you don't associate with sinners - that's the biggest mistake a christian could make. No sin is worse than any other sin - remember that!

I don't know for a fact I don't fellowship with someone practicing sin.

That is not my fault.

It's when I do know that I become accountable.

I guess Paul was wasting his time when he wrote this...

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

"No sin is any worse than any other?"

All sins are the same? :o

You don't think child molesting is worse than stealing food when you are hungry?

You really believe that?

 

[Merry Menagerie]

If someone is defending sins of fornication, lust, lying, stealing, hanging out with prostitutes then that person is not to be supported by the church but separated from.

.

Jesus hung out with all kinds of sinners and even prostitutes. I guess He would not be welcome in the church.

I have long wondered though if Jesus were to come here today if much of todays church would accept Him.

In the words of Todd Agnew;

Which Jesus do you follow?
Which Jesus do you serve?
If Ephesians says to imitate Christ
Then why do you look so much like the world?

Cause my Jesus bled and died
He spent His time with thieves and liars
He loved the poor and accosted the arrogant
So which one do you want to be?

Blessed are the poor in spirit
Or do we pray to be blessed with the wealth of this land
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst for righteousness
Or do we ache for another taste of this world of shifting sand

Cause my Jesus bled and died for my sins
He spent His time with thieves and sluts and liars
He loved the poor and accosted the rich
So which one do you want to be?

Who is this that you follow
This picture of the American dream
If Jesus was here would you walk right by on the other side or fall down and worship at His holy feet

Pretty blue eyes and curly brown hair and a clear complexion
Is how you see Him as He dies for Your sins
But the Word says He was battered and scarred
Or did you miss that part
Sometimes I doubt we'd recognize Him

Cause my Jesus bled and died
He spent His time with thieves and the least of these
He loved the poor and accosted the comfortable
So which one do you want to be?

Cause my Jesus would never be accepted in my church
The blood and dirt on His feet would stain the carpet
But He reaches for the hurting and despised the proud
I think He'd prefer Beale St. to the stained glass crowd
And I know that He can hear me if I cry out loud
I want to be like my Jesus!
I want to be like my Jesus!

Not a posterchild for American prosperity, but like my Jesus
You see I'm tired of living for success and popularity
I want to be like my Jesus but I'm not sure what that means to be like You Jesus
Cause You said to live like You, love like You but then You died for me
Can I be like You Jesus?
I want to be like my Jesus

Great post!!! I agree!

 

[SputnikBoy]

For the most part, secular sources and the ones that propagate them have their head in the sand when it comes to spiritual matters. Jesus never once said, " Go ahead and continue sinning; those who comdem you are not without sin." No, He says, "...sin no more."

You must believe the biblical Jesus... :D

Watch out for the other one...

2 Corinthians 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

You seem unable or unwilling to understand this, BB, so it needs to be stated yet again. There are many people in this world who are attracted to the same gender through no choosing of their own. Whether you like it or not hardly matters ...it's a fact. What you and others are doing is IGNORING what some of these people are so desperately trying to tell you. They are saying, BB, "Why is it a sin to be attracted to the same gender when I have no choice in the matter?" You, BB, are saying, "I don't believe a word of it, you filthy pervert."

You then pull out your weapon (the Bible) and spew out some well chosen - indeed MEMORIZED - texts that are intended to make them squirm. You choose not to even listen to someone who is telling you that their sexual orientation was never asked for but that it's a part of them. They don't believe that their orientation is a sin to begin with ...get it? Yet you in your exhuberance continue to regard them as a sinner thereby adding further confusion to the issue. The bottom line is, BB, that while you come across as being the final word on this issue, you have NO IDEA what you're dealing with. Again, one's sexual orientation - whether heterosexual or homosexual - is NOT a sin issue. What one may use that orientation for, however, MAY lead to sin. Does one need a mallet to get this through?

 

[bibleberean]

Having sex outside of marriage is a sin.

Marriage is between a man and a woman.

It is a sin against God for two men or two women to engage in a perverse sexual relationship...

 

[Merry Menagerie]

[quote:f9dc7]Do you know without a shadow of a doubt that every person that you 'hang out with' isn't an adulterer? Do you know that they don't have bad thoughts about people? Do you know that they are not really child molesterers or liars? Do you know that they don't really go home and yell and scream obscenities at their spouses? If not then how can you say that you don't hang out with sinners? WE ALL HANG OUT WITH SINNERS - WE are sinners also. Don't think for a moment that you don't associate with sinners - that's the biggest mistake a christian could make. No sin is worse than any other sin - remember that!

I don't know for a fact I don't fellowship with someone practicing sin.

I said 'hang out' with not 'fellowship'. The Holy Spirit will automatically cease fellowship with those who do not walk in the light - whether or not you 'hang out' with them. Don't mix up 'associat' with 'fellowship'. You can only fellowship with those who walk in the light and it's spiritual. The rest of the people you 'hang out' with you are merely associating with not fellowshipping. Do you think that Christ was in fellowship with the prostitutes he was 'hanging out' with? Somehow I doubt it ;)

It's when I do know that I become accountable.

Then Christ is accountable?

I guess Paul was wasting his time when he wrote this...

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

JEsus kept company with such people so obviously either Paul made a mistake or perhaps you've misinterpreted his meaning in this scripture

"No sin is any worse than any other?"

All sins are the same? :o

You don't think child molesting is worse than stealing food when you are hungry?

You really believe that?

[/quote:f9dc7]

You show me a scripture where God differentiates between 'bad sin' and 'not so bad' sin and I'll gladly change my stance. The fact is, that the bible says that God hates sin - he doesn't have a point system going...

Adultery - 10 points
Lying - 5 points
backstabbing - 2 points
murder - 100 points.

Or he doesn't have a list of sins he doesn't like and ones he can 'deal' with. Or ones that he hates or ones that think 'aren't so bad'. A sin is a sin is a sin is a sin - and the wages of sin is DEATH. End of story!

That's why the bible says judge not lest ye be judged - why? Because one cannot judge someone elses sin when they have sin themselves. You are a sinner and your sin is no different than a homosexual's sin - they are both sin.

 

[bibleberean]

John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

If you want to believe that stealing food by a person is not as bad as molesting a child then that is up to you.

No one is saying that all sin isn't sin in God's eyes.

Proverbs 6:30 Men do not despise a thief, if he steal to satisfy his soul when he is hungry;

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Are these scriptures God's word or not?

Jesus came to call sinners to repentance. He did not hang out with those who did not want to repent.

Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Do you think Jesus wanted or would encourage prostitues to set up shop in the temple? :o

 

[Merry Menagerie]

John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

You must read scripture in context. Jesus was talking to pilate and was accusing Christ of not speaking to Pilate when he was going to sentence Christ to death. So compairing Pilate's sin to Christ's 'sin' (Christ did not sin) then Pilate had the greater sin considering Christ wasn't actually sinning.

[quote:b2392]If you want to believe that stealing food by a person is not as bad as molesting a child then that is up to you.

I'm just waiting for the scripture to point out that there are some sins that are 'ok' and some that are not ok.

No one is saying that all sin isn't sin in God's eyes.

And yet you seem to singling out those with the 'worst' sin and not looking at any other sin. It's all sin - it all belongs in the 'sin' basket - the stuff that God hates.

Proverbs 6:30 Men do not despise a thief, if he steal to satisfy his soul when he is hungry;

You forgot verse 31...

But if he be found, he shall restroe seven fold; he shall give all the substance of his house.

Sounds like from the other verses also, that it's talking about consequences from sin here on earth. These scriptures are not talking about how God feels about sin.

Try again!

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

God hates sin! The wages of sin is death!

Are these scriptures God's word or not?

But YOUR interpretation and taking out of context is not of God.

Jesus came to call sinners to repentance. He did not hang out with those who did not want to repent.

He went out into the hiways and biways preaching about repentence and love - is this what you are doing? Or are you beating people over the head with 'You are a sinner!' Remember also that not only are THEY a sinner - but you are one also ;)

Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

And how did he do this?

Do you think Jesus wanted or would encourage prostitues to set up shop in the temple? :o

[/quote:b2392]

What? I don't understand this question? Is someone suggesting here that we erect a brolesque house in a church? Who's saying this?

 

[bibleberean]

How could pilot have the "greater sin" if he was comparing himself with Jesus who had no sin?

Pilot would have the only sin not the greater one.

Jesus was talking about Judas having the greater sin.

If you want to believe that molesting children and stealing food are on the same level be my guest. ;-)

I never said "some sins were ok and some sins were not".

Thanks,


Robert

 

[bibleberean]

What one may use that orientation for, however, MAY lead to sin. Does one need a mallet to get this through?

Having sex is the issue...

It isn't me that is confused or confusing things in this thread.

If a person is struggling with lust then we should pray for them and encourage them. That has been my stand from the beginning.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

How could pilot have the "greater sin" if he was comparing himself with Jesus who had no sin?

Pilot would have the only sin not the greater one.

Jesus was talking about Judas having the greater sin.

Who was he comparing Judas too then?

If you want to believe that molesting children and stealing food are on the same level be my guest. ;-)

I never said "some sins were ok and some sins were not".

So you see all sin as the same then? At the same level - which is 'sin'?

 

[Merry Menagerie]

It's the thought of lust as well too though, that's a sin.

 

[bibleberean]

What one may use that orientation for, however, MAY lead to sin. Does one need a mallet to get this through?

Having sex is the issue...

It isn't me that is confused or confusing things in this thread.

If a person is struggling with lust then we should pray for them and encourage them. That has been my stand from the beginning.

A proclivity to sin is understandable and can be dealt with. Promotion of that sin, defending and practicing it is the problem.

If a person has the proclivity to get drunk there is no sin unless the person promotes, practices and defends being a drunkard.

The same applies to engaging in illicit sexual activity.

Pretty simple...

 

[bibleberean]

How could pilot have the "greater sin" if he was comparing himself with Jesus who had no sin?

Pilot would have the only sin not the greater one.

Jesus was talking about Judas having the greater sin.

Who was he comparing Judas too then?

He was comparing Judas to Pilot.

If you want to believe that molesting children and stealing food are on the same level be my guest. ;-)

I never said "some sins were ok and some sins were not".

So you see all sin as the same then? At the same level - which is 'sin'?

I see all sin as sin and some sin is worse than others.

Shooting a baby in the head with a shotgun is worse than stealing food from a grocery store because you are hungry.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

How could pilot have the "greater sin" if he was comparing himself with Jesus who had no sin?

Pilot would have the only sin not the greater one.

Jesus was talking about Judas having the greater sin.

Who was he comparing Judas too then?

He was comparing Judas to Pilot.

What sin had pilate committed?

[quote:61886]If you want to believe that molesting children and stealing food are on the same level be my guest. ;-)

I never said "some sins were ok and some sins were not".

So you see all sin as the same then? At the same level - which is 'sin'?

I see all sin as sin and some sin is worse than others.[/quote:61886]

Ok so do these 'worse' sins get 'more' punishment from God? Remember the wages of sin is death - so are there 'levels' of death to fit the 'worse' sins?

Shooting a baby in the head with a shotgun is worse than stealing food from a grocery store because you are hungry.

According to us - sure! But according to God they are both sin and the wages of sin is death. That's what the bible says. I'm not talking about 'intention' here either. You've added intention into the above quote. But all intention is relative and only God can judge the intent of the person's heart. But as far as sin is concerned - God views ALL SIN as deserving of death, even if we don't.

 

[bibleberean]

John 19:10-12 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.

Jesus being a prophet and the Son of God knew Pilot would give in and turn Christ over to be crucified. Pilot also had Jesus scourged even though he knew Christ was innocent.

Thus, Pilot sinned...

God gives greater punishment in this life for some sins than others.

He didn't destroy Sodom and Gomorah because there was sin in the city. He destroyed them for vile sins. If God did not consider some sins worse than others then He should have destroyed all the cities not just some....

2 Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

 

[Merry Menagerie]

John 19:10-12 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.

Jesus being a prophet and the Son of God knew Pilot would give in and turn Christ over to be crucified. Pilot also had Jesus scourged even though he knew Christ was innocent.

Thus, Pilot sinned...

So what was it that he did?

God gives greater punishment in this life for some sins than others.

He didn't destroy Sodom and Gomorah because there was sin in the city. He destroyed them for vile sins. If God did not consider some sins worse than others then He should have destroyed all the cities not just some....

2 Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

[/quote]

Again, the wages of sin is death...are their levels of death? Sin is deserving of death. Also not that after the atonement of Christ that God didn't destroy anymore cities...but there will be a day of destruction where the Lord will have his day and the SINNERS will be put to death. So are their levels of death? So if you only committed adultery and you didn't kill anyone do you go to a 'kinda dead' state rather than the guy who killed a baby go to a 'full dead' state for their 'sins'?

 

[bibleberean]

Merry, I have given you my answers.

Thanks for sharing your perspectives.

Robert