Homosexuality in Christianity

[jasoncran]

hmm i will enter this fray and add more as i was a former bisexual. btw we have some that are observing this.

Jason,
If I could ask a couple questions, I'd like to hear your response.
1. Do you still have sexual desires for the same sex?
BTW, I don't believe that having the desire is a sin.
2. If you do have the desire, how do you deal with it?
3. Do you find that the love you shared with a previous male partner was the same as the love you share with your wife? Why?

If you feel uncomfortable, you don't have to answer and I'm sorry if I'm putting you on the spot.

Thanks!

one if god called the act of homosexuality a sin, that would the thoughts of it be sin, if we look at another woman other than our wife, is that not sin?

no, i cant look at a man like that anymore? does that mean the satan leaves this alone all the time, no, but i ignore him

no, i love my wife more as it's natural and love the that bible teaches for a man and women in christ or the christlike love a man has for his wife cant be compared to the sinful version that satan sells.

the desires for the same sex can be taken away by the lord, as i know of one who has never knew the desire for a woman and got deleiverd and now wants to be married to a woman.

 

[Packrat]

The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin.

Or does it?

I know it certainly seems that way at first glance, but look closer.

As I read about the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, I read that Lot found brought to angels into his home, and the citizens of Sodom demanded that Lot release the angels so that they could rape them. Lot begged them to take his daughters instead, but the citizens would have none of it, and started breaking into his house. It was at that point, and only at that point, that Lot and his family fled the city while it was destroyed with fire and brimstone, and his wife became a pillar of salt.

So, I ask you two things:

1. Did Lot offer his daughters because they were women, or did he offer them to protect the angels, and he didn't have any sons to offer?

2. Was the city of Sodom destroyed because it was full of gay people, or was it destroyed because it was full of rapists?

Also, while the book of Leviticus does say that homosexuality is an abomination, doesn't that exact same book say that eating pork is an abomination? Yeah, Leviticus 11:7-8, go and read it yourself. So, do you like eating ham 'n' cheese sandwiches? What about hot dogs? Don't you know they're made of bologna, which is made of the meat of a pig?

Pork is not the only portion of Leviticus that most Christians disregard; in fact, it's the other way around: Homosexuality seems to be the only portion of Leviticus that Christians still uphold. Why? Why does that double standard exist?

So, conclusively, what real biblical reference can you chalk up, that cannot be disputed or undermined in any way, shape, or form, that homosexuality is, indeed, a sin?

Homosexuality is not a sin. It is a sinful nature. And we all have those. Those of us obeying God just choose not to act on them. As for not eating pork, there were many things we were not supposed to eat. Pork was just one of those things which was not meant for us to use as food. And I still believe we should not eat it to this day. There's no double standard. God's laws are applicable today.

 

[jasoncran]

then we should be slaying those witches and those rebellious children if take that part to still in effect. sin is still sin, but we arent to admin some of these of the punishment after the cruficixation.

 

[shad]

So, to restate what I've said: I do not believe that the Bible condemns homosexuals for being homosexual; it condemns the acts committed by homosexuals, which is also why they're wrong for heterosexuals to engage in.

Yes, that's what we are talking about. So you should not nit pick about it.

 

[Free]

So, to restate what I've said: I do not believe that the Bible condemns homosexuals for being homosexual; it condemns the acts committed by homosexuals, which is also why they're wrong for heterosexuals to engage in.

Yes, that's what we are talking about. So you should not nit pick about it.

Huh?

 

[shad]

Huh?

Sorry,

What I mean is that no Christians condem anyone who are attracted to the same sex. The problem is acting on it. It is sin to practice homosexuality.

 

[Free]

Huh?

Sorry,

What I mean is that no Christians condem anyone who are attracted to the same sex. The problem is acting on it. It is sin to practice homosexuality.

As I previously stated, many Christians do condemn homosexuals. Would you agree that one can be a homosexual and a Christian?

 

[jasoncran]

NO, how can that be free, i like and love men and then never marry or act on that desire. is that the love of christ to leave a recently repented person like that forever.i'm not going to take your desire for men but you can to heaven. If you act on your "natural" desire, then its off to hell because you acted on what i commanded you not.

that isnt love but torture!
upon repentence my lust for men was token away, for others they struggled but they eventually lost that desire and wanted to be with a woman.

yes, upon deathbed salvation and or the immedialte salvation the homosexual will no longer want to act on that as he knows it wrong and will want to change not stay there. it will be the Lord's power that takes that.

if a person chooses to the stay that way,it's doubtful that they are saved! why would one want to be tortured with that, ok to look at men, yet dont touch as thats sin.


i tried in my power not to look at men, but i couldnt stop it, i never acted till one day. i praise the lord that he took it.

 

[Packrat]

then we should be slaying those witches and those rebellious children if take that part to still in effect. sin is still sin, but we arent to admin some of these of the punishment after the cruficixation.

Well, I'm actually glad someone finally came out and mentioned this. I'm not interested in racking up kiss-butt points with human beings. And I don't mean that as an insult to you at all, sir. It's just that if God says to do something I believe we should do it. If you are a Christian today then you must come to terms with the fact that God told his followers to do these things in the past and they did them.

However, I would also like you to consider this: When do you call a rebellious child rebellious? Is it when he says, "No," once and after being disciplined he then changes his behavior? Or is it after some arbitrary concept of "thorough discipline" that he is called rebellious if he still does not change? Also, what sort of witches was the Old Testament referring to? Did they just practice magic? Was this magic based on a false god or demon? Or were they the ones who sacrificed children in fire to demons? Who was to kill these rebellious children and witches? Were they to be put through a trial based on two or more witnesses or just taken out and stoned by one person on a whim? If you believe I should act as a one-person judge, jury and executioner then you'd be talking about vigilantism. I do not believe this was the purpose of the Law. There were laws to uphold as well as procedures for those who were caught transgressing those laws. Take for instance Numbers 15:32-36. It was unclear to the people what should be done with the man gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Was it working? Was he in violation of the Sabbath? In this case they went directly to God and asked. God dispensed judgment and the judgment was carried out. However, in my case I can not go to a high priest or some Levitical figure and tell him to ask God what I should do with these witches in our society.

These are some of the concerns I'm a bit foggy on. And until I understand them completely I'm going to leave the execution of judgment up to God. It would also be important to remember that if we had gotten rid of all of those who worshipped false gods and demons and who were utterly rebellious against their parents then we wouldn't have the problems we have today. Fewer people would be influenced by lingering pagan ideas, and children would obey their parents. But I don't believe our focus should be so much on killing disobedient children but on raising them in an appropriate way to keep them from being disobedient.

Again, there is no duplicity here. I simply choose to defer the execution of judgment to God for fear that I would be disobeying his sixth commandment. My faith has little if aught to do with the cultural norms of western modernity and everything with what I believe God declares.

 

[Packrat]

NO, how can that be free, i like and love men and then never marry or act on that desire. is that the love of christ to leave a recently repented person like that forever.i'm not going to take your desire for men but you can to heaven. If you act on your "natural" desire, then its off to hell because you acted on what i commanded you not.

that isnt love but torture!
upon repentence my lust for men was token away, for others they struggled but they eventually lost that desire and wanted to be with a woman.

yes, upon deathbed salvation and or the immedialte salvation the homosexual will no longer want to act on that as he knows it wrong and will want to change not stay there. it will be the Lord's power that takes that.

if a person chooses to the stay that way,it's doubtful that they are saved! why would one want to be tortured with that, ok to look at men, yet dont touch as thats sin.


i tried in my power not to look at men, but i couldnt stop it, i never acted till one day. i praise the lord that he took it.

Again, brother, we are both born with sinful natures. This world is imperfect and that is a tragedy. There is suffering in it. But let us each bear our own cross. Yes, homosexuality is a sinful nature. Why? Because it promotes the desires of sodomy in us. And if a path eventually leads to sodomy - a sin - then it cannot be the right one.

 

[shad]

Huh?

Sorry,

What I mean is that no Christians condem anyone who are attracted to the same sex. The problem is acting on it. It is sin to practice homosexuality.

As I previously stated, many Christians do condemn homosexuals. Would you agree that one can be a homosexual and a Christian?

Christians should repent when they are in sin. There are homosexual agendists who are promoting lies by saying homosexuality sex is not sin and they should be able to marry same sex. It is just outrageous the way they are promoting sin.

 

[jasoncran]

packrat, i know that, i was bi. i was addressing free's comment.

if the bible condemns an act then the thought of it, when not immedialtely squashed(temptation) is sin.

the only act that isnt is the act of sex within the marriage bed, outside its wrong.

 

[francisdesales]

Huh?

Sorry,

What I mean is that no Christians condem anyone who are attracted to the same sex. The problem is acting on it. It is sin to practice homosexuality.

I think it's more than just that. Jesus said even dwelling on lustful thoughts in our hearts is committing adultery. I don't see that He made a distinction - men must lust for women to be sinful.

Men lusting after men is sinful as well. Even if they don't act it out.

God has given all of us crosses to bear. Alcohol, tendencies to emotionally abuse others, loss of temper, etc... It "appears" we are "born" with such tendencies, and perhaps homosexuality may be, to a degree, something that is part of an innate tendency. But, just as any sinful act, we are called to fight against such things, whether alcholic abuse, emotional abuse, physical abuse, or thoughts of deviantly lustful behavior, whether man on man or man on woman. I see no "pass" for homosexuals, who claim they were "born that way".

Yea, I was "born" with sinful tendencies, as well, that is no excuse to let them run wild...

As Christians, we are to crucify the flesh... whether someone is a homosexual or not, lustful thoughts must die.

Regards

 

[stovebolts]

Jason,
If I could ask a couple questions, I'd like to hear your response.
1. Do you still have sexual desires for the same sex?
BTW, I don't believe that having the desire is a sin.
2. If you do have the desire, how do you deal with it?
3. Do you find that the love you shared with a previous male partner was the same as the love you share with your wife? Why?

If you feel uncomfortable, you don't have to answer and I'm sorry if I'm putting you on the spot.

Thanks!

one if god called the act of homosexuality a sin, that would the thoughts of it be sin, if we look at another woman other than our wife, is that not sin?

There is a difference between being tempted and committing a sin. Just because you are tempted, doesn't mean that you've committed that sin.

Genesis 4:7 If you do well, shall you not be accepted? and if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And you shall be its desire, and you must rule over it.

James 1:14-15 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death.

I don't think that one is 'sinning' when they experience a 'homosexual' feeling much in the same way that I don't think that one is 'sinning' when one experiences the urge to lie.

When it becomes a 'sin', is when one begins to entertain those 'feelings'.

no, i cant look at a man like that anymore? does that mean the satan leaves this alone all the time, no, but i ignore him

... and you must rule over it.

no, i love my wife more as it's natural and love the that bible teaches for a man and women in christ or the christlike love a man has for his wife cant be compared to the sinful version that satan sells.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

the desires for the same sex can be taken away by the lord, as i know of one who has never knew the desire for a woman and got deleiverd and now wants to be married to a woman.

God is good. Again, thanks for sharing.

 

[shad]

I think it's more than just that. Jesus said even dwelling on lustful thoughts in our hearts is committing adultery. I don't see that He made a distinction - men must lust for women to be sinful.

I understand that. But there are many homo-agendist actively spreading lies about homosexuality saying it is not sin and homo-marriage is biblical.

This is just plain evil.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote: Stovebolts - "There is a difference between being tempted and committing a sin. Just because you are tempted, doesn't mean that you've committed that sin."

Hi there J.

Yes this is true. But, in order for one to be called a theif, there must be an act that would manifest the title of being a thief.

If within one's mind they can commit adultery, then the act of adultery has been committed.

If one "is" a homosexual and this individual claims they are a homosexual . Then the act of homosexuality has been committed, either in their mind or actually acting upon it. Either way they are a homosexual. If they are tempted but never act upon the thought , and cast this thought as far as the east is from the west. Then they are "not" a homosexual. Then the title does not apply. But once they even claim to be a homosexual, this means that they have sinned, and they want to be called a homosexual because that is what they are. A sinner !

A homosexual sins in their mind as well as in their action. But even if they only sin in their mind, they still are a homosexual , because the sin has been manifested. To Lust after , even in the mind is a sin. The same with one who "covets".

 

[francisdesales]

I think it's more than just that. Jesus said even dwelling on lustful thoughts in our hearts is committing adultery. I don't see that He made a distinction - men must lust for women to be sinful.

I understand that. But there are many homo-agendist actively spreading lies about homosexuality saying it is not sin and homo-marriage is biblical.

This is just plain evil.

Agreed, Shad. Just pointing out that the act is not the depths of sin, even dwelling on lustful thoughts are sinful.

And there are many heterosexual agendist actively spreading lies about fornication outside of marriage... correct?

It is plain evil. However, the homosexual act is always gravely evil, while the heterosexual act, within a marriage, can lead to a wonderful blessing - life.

Regards

 

[stovebolts]

Quote: Stovebolts - "There is a difference between being tempted and committing a sin. Just because you are tempted, doesn't mean that you've committed that sin."

Hi there J.

Yes this is true. But, in order for one to be called a theif, there must be an act that would manifest the title of being a thief.

If within one's mind they can commit adultery, then the act of adultery has been committed.

I agree, but just having the thought, i.e. being "tempted" does not mean that one has committed the sin. It is when we dwell on the thought, and the thought becomes real. In other words, it's when we act on the thought in a manner that gravitates us closer to that thought because chances are, if we dwell on a thought long enough, it will become a reality.

If one "is" a homosexual and this individual claims they are a homosexual . Then the act of homosexuality has been committed, either in their mind or actually acting upon it. Either way they are a homosexual. If they are tempted but never act upon the thought , and cast this thought as far as the east is from the west. Then they are "not" a homosexual. Then the title does not apply. But once they even claim to be a homosexual, this means that they have sinned, and they want to be called a homosexual because that is what they are. A sinner !

To be honest, I would think that a married man who commits adultery, even if within his own mind is guilty of a greater sin than the person who commits the act of homosexuality even within their own mind.

Now then, neither act will exclude having a relationship with Christ Jesus for in Christ Jesus, all are made new creatures and all are called to live up to what hey have already attained. Does this mean that one may not be tempted again or does it mean that one won't sin again? Absolutely not.

Everyone, even Christians have their own struggles with sin in this world. I believe that the Church should be a safe place to come and confess those sins without getting beat up, ridiculed or condemned. Yes, Homosexuality is a sin, but how is a Homosexual received in the church? Like an adulteress, these are strong feelings that need to be dealt with and for those who come to the Church with these types of issues, we need to be there for them to support them just like anyone else who is struggling with sin in their lives. Unfortunately, we often get into these huge debates on how terrible (and rightly so) homosexuality is and instead of receiving the homosexual, we push them further away.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

A homosexual sins in their mind as well as in their action. But even if they only sin in their mind, they still are a homosexual , because the sin has been manifested. To Lust after , even in the mind is a sin. The same with one who "covets".

The same for anything that one lusts after... Lust is not inclusive to sexual matters alone. This is not to minimize the effect of sin.

 

[Free]

What I mean is that no Christians condem anyone who are attracted to the same sex. The problem is acting on it. It is sin to practice homosexuality.

As I previously stated, many Christians do condemn homosexuals. Would you agree that one can be a homosexual and a Christian?

Christians should repent when they are in sin. There are homosexual agendists who are promoting lies by saying homosexuality sex is not sin and they should be able to marry same sex. It is just outrageous the way they are promoting sin.

Do you see what you've just done? You've just done the very thing you said Christians don't do, which is exactly why I asked the question.

I'll ask again: Can a homosexual, that is, one who is attracted to the same sex, be a Christian?

 

[Mysteryman]

quote : "Do you understand what I'm saying?"


Hi J

I am wonder if you understand what I am saying ? Let me explain why I disagree with this line of thinking.

There are lies and then there is the greatest lie ever told.

There are sins, and then there are sins unto death.

All unrighteousness is sin < Agreed ?

But for one to commit a sin of adultery is an unrighteous act, be it in their minds or with their body. This is an act of unrighteousness, but their minds are not filled with unrighteous thoughts.

But a homosexual's mind is filled with unrighteous acts. > Romans 1:29

See the difference ?

Their minds are such that there is nothing righteous in their eyes. That is because they believe that everything goes. Nothing is wrong. And remember that they will not admit to this. But the Word of God has declared this to be true ! Romans 1:29 - 32 declares this to be true ! God gave them over to a reprobate mind, which means totally empty of any righteous thought. Their minds are void of any righteous judgement.

King David committed adultery, yet he was a man after God's own heart. That is because his mind was not "full" of unrighteousness. And I am sure you remember the story of David, when God sent the prophet Nathan unto David. David's response unto Nathan was a righteous thought, and Nathan told David, "your that man" ! David repented of his sin, because his mind was not void of judgement. But that is not the case with a homosexual. Their mind is void, empty of any righteous judgement.

For one to come out of homosexuality (which can be obtained) takes prayer and a strong motivated individual. Not "all" homosexuals are totally dedicated to this life style. But some are.

Those who are totally dedicated, will never come out of this life style. Which means they will never leave their sinful life they lead, and will remain in a reprobate mind.

When Jesus heals and sets someone free from sin, he told them to go and sin no more. As long as they live in that life style, they are in bondage to the sinfulness that they live within. Coming to church is not going to cleanse them. They must make a committment and not a half arss committment. They will need prayer, and those whom will pray that they are healed. Being cleansed from "all unrighteousness" is much, much worse and harder than from being cleansed from one single act of unrightousness. The prayer of a rightous person availeth much. All other prayer , especially in this case availeth very very little !

Homosexuality is not a sin unto death. However, it can be if one continues their whole life in this life style. This sin of homosexuality is the closest sin unto death that there is without it actually being a sin unto death. God considers homosexuality as "murder", and there is no eternal life that abides in a murderer. So you can see the seriousness of this sin of homosexuality ! ?