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Homosexuality in Christianity

Packrat said:
So the answer becomes easy for me: homosexuality was wrong then (i.e. punishable by death) and it is wrong now. Absolutely nothing has changed except for the fact that God's Laws have been written on our hearts and minds so that we want to obey them and, in doing so, within the parameters of love.
Why is homosexuality wrong? Why should God care who his creations love? According to your belief that God created everyone, God created homosexuals. That's like you drawing a picture of a homosexual then hating it because it's a drawing of a homosexual. It doesn't make sense that God would hate gays after he made them to be gay.

But then, I don't really expect God to make sense, so I shouldn't complain.
 
demented cookies said:
Packrat said:
So the answer becomes easy for me: homosexuality was wrong then (i.e. punishable by death) and it is wrong now. Absolutely nothing has changed except for the fact that God's Laws have been written on our hearts and minds so that we want to obey them and, in doing so, within the parameters of love.
Why is homosexuality wrong? Why should God care who his creations love? According to your belief that God created everyone, God created homosexuals. That's like you drawing a picture of a homosexual then hating it because it's a drawing of a homosexual. It doesn't make sense that God would hate gays after he made them to be gay.

But then, I don't really expect God to make sense, so I shouldn't complain.
Homosexual acts are an abomination, whether done by heterosexual or homosexual couples, as they are a perversion of the sexual union between a man and woman that God created and called good. No one has said that God hates gays, well, other than the Westboro Baptist Church which I do not personally consider Christian. God hates sin.
 
shad said:
elijah23 said:
The Bible says that if you have sex before you marry, you have sinned. Doesn’t matter if it’s heterosexual or homosexual. Right?

This thread is about homosexuality.
I think it's a valid point. If it's a sin to have sex out of wedlocked, and if wedlock is only permitted between an adult man and woman, then it's case closed.

However, I'm not sure that an adulturer is any less of a sinner than a homosexual, and I don't know of many adulturers, even repeat offenders, who get kicked out of church. Do they?
 
bennyboy said:
shad said:
elijah23 said:
The Bible says that if you have sex before you marry, you have sinned. Doesn’t matter if it’s heterosexual or homosexual. Right?

This thread is about homosexuality.
I think it's a valid point. If it's a sin to have sex out of wedlocked, and if wedlock is only permitted between an adult man and woman, then it's case closed.

However, I'm not sure that an adulturer is any less of a sinner than a homosexual, and I don't know of many adulturers, even repeat offenders, who get kicked out of church. Do they?

If they openly admit that they are offenders, they should be kicked out if they don't repent. I don't know because so many sins are committed but the mainstream churches are closing their eyes.
 
Free said:
demented cookies said:
Packrat said:
So the answer becomes easy for me: homosexuality was wrong then (i.e. punishable by death) and it is wrong now. Absolutely nothing has changed except for the fact that God's Laws have been written on our hearts and minds so that we want to obey them and, in doing so, within the parameters of love.
Why is homosexuality wrong? Why should God care who his creations love? According to your belief that God created everyone, God created homosexuals. That's like you drawing a picture of a homosexual then hating it because it's a drawing of a homosexual. It doesn't make sense that God would hate gays after he made them to be gay.

But then, I don't really expect God to make sense, so I shouldn't complain.
Homosexual acts are an abomination, whether done by heterosexual or homosexual couples, as they are a perversion of the sexual union between a man and woman that God created and called good.
Just because that's good doesn't mean something else can't be as well. I myself am heterosexual, and I consider that good, but I know many people who happen to be homosexual, and that should be considered good as well because they love someone and are happy. Who is anyone to deny them their happiness?
No one has said that God hates gays, well, other than the Westboro Baptist Church which I do not personally consider Christian.
If he doesn't hate them, why does he demand that they be killed?
God hates sin.
Which he himself created. Again, it's that same thing about the creator creating something to be exactly what it is then hating for what it is.
 
demented cookies said:
Packrat said:
So the answer becomes easy for me: homosexuality was wrong then (i.e. punishable by death) and it is wrong now. Absolutely nothing has changed except for the fact that God's Laws have been written on our hearts and minds so that we want to obey them and, in doing so, within the parameters of love.
Why is homosexuality wrong? Why should God care who his creations love? According to your belief that God created everyone, God created homosexuals. That's like you drawing a picture of a homosexual then hating it because it's a drawing of a homosexual. It doesn't make sense that God would hate gays after he made them to be gay.

But then, I don't really expect God to make sense, so I shouldn't complain.
god didnt plan men to be gay, for he did then he would be evil, he allows men to choose this sinful lifestyle that's all,

i was bi and he healed me , and now after that i dont want men at all. god no more created the gay person then he creates alcoholic. the apa has said that theres no gay gene.
 
jasoncran said:
demented cookies said:
Packrat said:
So the answer becomes easy for me: homosexuality was wrong then (i.e. punishable by death) and it is wrong now. Absolutely nothing has changed except for the fact that God's Laws have been written on our hearts and minds so that we want to obey them and, in doing so, within the parameters of love.
Why is homosexuality wrong? Why should God care who his creations love? According to your belief that God created everyone, God created homosexuals. That's like you drawing a picture of a homosexual then hating it because it's a drawing of a homosexual. It doesn't make sense that God would hate gays after he made them to be gay.

But then, I don't really expect God to make sense, so I shouldn't complain.
god didnt plan men to be gay, for he did then he would be evil, he allows men to choose this sinful lifestyle that's all,
Hm. And here I thought God had a plan, this famous "plan" that everyone keeps talking about. Gay people don't choose to be gay, no more than straight people choose to be straight. Are they supposed to live an unhappy life, without someone they love? If you think they should deny who they really are just so some invisible man in the sky, who demands them to die, will be happy, then I think you need to think about it a little bit more.

i was bi and he healed me , and now after that i dont want men at all.
He didn't heal you. You chose to pretend you were something you weren't because you were threatened with burning forever (though why God would burn his creations forever when he supposedly has a plan is beyond me).

god no more created the gay person then he creates alcoholic.
Then who created them? They don't choose to be gay, they are born that way, just as other people are born straight (though they don't usually realize it until they hit puberty, just like straight people don't have any attractions to the opposite sex until they hit puberty). Alcoholics choose to drink, but it was God with his oh-so-holy plan that made them alcoholics. Are you denying that God has a plan? I thought that's why bad things happened to good people: because God has a plan.

the apa has said that theres no gay gene.
There's no straight gene either.
 
uh, i was healed, buddy. you dont know me at all.

you claim that god creates and plans men to be gay then where is the verse on that.

if he INTENDED US to us be gay for those that are then why are they condemned if they dont repent

and bull, for i couldnt have changed if didnt take the desire for men from me. he took when i asked too.
bi simply choose who they will be with , but DESIRE for the other sex if they are in homo relationship doesn't die. and vice versa.

they choose to ignore it. hellfire didnt convince me. God told me through a person and the verse i repented that i was in sin. i know what i was doing was wrong as i mainly avoided acting on the thoughts of men and never acted on that till after my conversion and that was something that just happened as i was lonely. to this day i cant figure out why i acted on that. i knew everyday in church with no person their knowing that what i was doing was wrong. i go to pray, god told me repent, praise, the lord, i would hear , repent, and so on. for a few months until i gave that sin up.
 
if he had a plan to make them gay please show that. most gay men i know that have repented choose to repent, that is the choice, the choose to repent and change when the lord does it for them or they become celebate.

its the lord that does this not them.
 
He didn't heal you. You chose to pretend you were something you weren't because you were threatened with burning forever (though why God would burn his creations forever when he supposedly has a plan is beyond me).

Matthew 7:7-11 "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: for every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, who, if his son shall ask him for a loaf, will give him a stone; or if he shall ask for a fish, will give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father who is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?"

Then who created them? They don't choose to be gay, they are born that way, just as other people are born straight (though they don't usually realize it until they hit puberty, just like straight people don't have any attractions to the opposite sex until they hit puberty). Alcoholics choose to drink, but it was God with his oh-so-holy plan that made them alcoholics. Are you denying that God has a plan? I thought that's why bad things happened to good people: because God has a plan.

God didn't create evil, evil is just the absence of good, just like a hole is the absence of dirt...

Isiah 14:24 "The LORD of hosts has sworn: 'As I have planned, so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand'"

You forget one aspect when you consider God's plan; Satan. Satan is allowed by God to work some evil, but very little. Alcoholics are addicted to alcohol, that is a sin, thus it is evil, thus it is the absence of good, and thus it is Satan's work, which is allowed by God to fulfill His plan. The same goes for gays. Evil exists because God is fair and He would rather us be evil than be forced to Him. Satan offers these evils to us and we may accept them at our own choosing, or they are forced on us (see Job) as a test or at the means of a greater purpose.

Perhaps you need to pray on this. I recommend Romans 11:33-34:
33 "Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and
a knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?â€b
35 “Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay him?â€c
36 For from him and through him and to him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen. "
 
Hm, and I was always told that God has a plan. Isn't that why bad things happen to good people? "Because God has a plan for them." That's what they always say.

Why is anyone thrown into hell? In the words of George Carlin: "Religion teaches you that there is an invisible man in the sky. And this invisible man has a list of ten things he doesn't want you to do, and if you do any of those things, there's a place for you full of fire and torture and anguish where you go to live forever to burn and suffer and die (etc, etc.) for all of eternity. But he loves you."

Okay, I guess it wasn't fair that I said you weren't healed without knowing you, but I don't understand what there was to be healed from. It looks to me that it's the homophobes that need to be healed, with all this hate for people they haven't even met before in their lives and who want these complete strangers to die because of who they love or change their ways so they can't love the person they love without "knowing" that they'll go to hell for eternity.
 
because didn't intend us to be this way.

i am not only the only former member of the lbgt community here. on other was bi and another was gay, both have had normal hetero relationship, the former is seeking a husdband, the later is married and has children and was a male homosexual.

the later was gay far longer then i was living the bi lifestyle. he struggled but the lord did heal him.

however that person, should they wish to speak up may do so. i am the vocal one this stuff most of the time.
 
demented cookies said:
Why is homosexuality wrong? Why should God care who his creations love? According to your belief that God created everyone, God created homosexuals. That's like you drawing a picture of a homosexual then hating it because it's a drawing of a homosexual. It doesn't make sense that God would hate gays after he made them to be gay.

But then, I don't really expect God to make sense, so I shouldn't complain.

That's a rather standard and cursory response to the issue. Albeit such a statement is a readily apparent straw man. I never said that I hated homosexuals. Why is homosexuality wrong? Because God says so. If there is a God he is the moral absolute. If there is no God then there is no point in debating with me further. But I'm not about to argue a Biblical position outside of the Bible. That wouldn't make any sense.

Another straw man would be the assertion that I believe God created everyone. I never said this. I believe he created an original, perfect human race that was later corrupted. Another straw man is the assertion that God "hates gays." Because someone was born homosexual does not mean they have to act on those homosexual tendencies. Because I have a sinful nature does not mean that "God hates me" or that I have to make an enemy of God by acting on my sinful tendencies.

I once asked a homosexual acquaintance of mine how he felt toward the concept of intimacy with women. He responded that he had had relations with women in the past but that his relations with men were more fulfilling. Now, speaking from a heterosexual male perspective I have to say that the thought of having relations with a man is completely revolting. But the thought of having relations with a woman for my homosexual friend was not indicated as "revolting" but rather "less favorable." So it would seem that at the core issue he is indeed bisexual rather than homosexual. If every other homosexual felt similarly then it would be reasonable to assume that there is no such thing as homosexuality but rather bisexuality. Therefore there would be no intrinsic need for a homosexual relationship that could be otherwise filled within the parameters of a God-ordained heterosexual relationship.

However, I cannot speak for all self-proclaimed homosexuals.
 
salvation.jpg


http://www.tonic.com/article/argentina- ... -marriage/

More and more countries are legalizing same sex Sodomy..

turnorburn
 
turnorburn said:
More and more countries are legalizing same sex Sodomy..

turnorburn
Unfortunately it's not just countrys but it is also churches. The Presbyterians have followed the ELCA and now allow practicing gay clergy. But the problem is not merely homosexuality, the problem is that GOD'S PEOPLE readily accept what God has said is a sin.

Westtexas
 
"Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city." -Matthew 10:15

That is for anyone who says Jesus never addressed homosexuality. It is an indirect utilization of the cities on the plain as a device to draw contrast against those who commit an even graver offense-- rejection of the Apostles and the Gospel that they bear. If homosexuality was not only bad, but a particularly abhorrent practice, don't you think Christ would have used a more 'terrible' people to cite? The purpose of naming Sodom was to illustrate that as notoriously sinful they were, their condemnation will pale in comparison to those who reject the Gospel. He isn't downplaying the sodomites-- He is magnifying the sin of the rejection of the Son of God by elevating it that much higher than the terrible sin of homosexuality.

Evidence 1: Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

The way one would lie with a woman is contrasted to the "abomination" of doing the same with another man. Spinning rhetoric doesn't change the simple fact of it. You should note that this same section covers incest, beastiality, and other such perversions. Kind of hard to isolate the context in justification of homosexuality.

Evidence 2: Romans 1:21-32

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


Evidence 3: 1 Corinthians 6:9

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

"abusers of themselves with mankind" is clear if you aren't trying to change the text to suit yourself.

The word translated as this phrase is:
????????????
arsenokoit?s

one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual

The word rendered "effeminate" is:
???????
Malakos

1) soft, soft to the touch

2) metaph. in a bad sense

a) effeminate

1) of a catamite

2) of a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man

3) of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness

4) of a male prostitute

The word "fornication" which is rendered in the noun form in this verse is:

??????
Pornos

1) a man who prostitutes his body to another's lust for hire

2) a male prostitute

3) a man who indulges in unlawful sexual intercourse, a fornicator

This would include heterosexual offenders as well.

Evidence 4: Acts 21:25

As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written [and] concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from [things] offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

Word rendered fornication:

???????
Porneia
1) illicit sexual intercourse

a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.

b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18

c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

2) metaph. the worship of idols

a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

This also covers heterosexual sin. You should also note that this particular verse is concerning Gentile converts (Non Jewish Christians) in respects to keeping the whole Law of Moses. This is why the "But nobody keeps Leviticus" argument fails on this point. It can also easily be argued that since Man and Woman were created one for another, that this decree predates the Law of Moses as a universally binding law no different than that bore witness against Cain when he slew Abel or that of a common thief. Just because it's written in the Law doesnt mean its origin or exclusivity is of the Law of Moses. And YES: Christians should be keeping the other 4 laws in Acts 21 as well as the general precept to love God and one another so that they might obey all 'universal' laws by proxy.

Evidence 5: Genesis 19

The story of Sodom and Gomorrah's destruction I saved it for last because I know its easy to play the ignorance card in the 21st century. Im sure you know about the destruction of the cities on the plain and will only argue that the REASON behind it was 'inhospitality' or some other common age lie.

And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

.................


And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.


................................

Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Ok, the euphemism "That we may KNOW them" is to "know" in a sexual sense. They wanted to KNOW them. Furthermore, if you read the previous chapter, the angels were sent there to destroy the city by God in ADVANCE because of the "evil" which those cities committed. Abraham had to plead with God to spare the city for postponement based off the premise that ONE righteous man could be found within its gates. (Lot)

Also notice that Lot offered his two daughters which had not KNOWN a man in place of the Angels.

Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

If you read in the New Testament, in Matthew 1: Mary contends with the angel Gabriel over news of her pregnancy saying "How can this be for I have not KNOWN a man".

Evidence 6

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. -Revelation 22:14-15

The word for dog is ???? ky?n is metaphorical of a man of impure mind, an impudent man. While not exclusive to homosexuals, they are under the unbrella. Also, "everyone who loveth and maketh a lie" would include those who intentionally wrest the scriptures to say something they do not. Whoever distorts the word of God by saying homosexuality is "kosher" is guilty of this in accordance with Revelation 22 and Romans 1.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is your proof. If you are honest you will concede in your heart that THIS is what the Bible says: Whether or not you will accept the Bible itself; at least accept what is says for what it says.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2 Timothy 4:3-4

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." (Colossians 2:8)

If a homosexual will humble himself before God and repent of his evil ways then God will hear from heaven and redemption will be dispensed on him. Unfortunately, it is impossible to repent of something you are proud of. Most homosexuals are proud.
 
Then you are one of a small percent who do. Believers are smalls of the whole anyways. A remnant. Anyways, thats good to your credit; but the exceptions prove the rules.
 
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