Homosexuality - Sin? Why?

[Anya]

Just let me begin with saying that I am heterosexual. Now... if someone could give me a reason as to why homosexuality is bad, a sin, or is evil, let me know and I will certainly consider it. I'm not going to say whether I object or accept homosexuality in society until someone has made at least one argument for or against it.

If you have Bible references to object to or promote this lifestyle, then list them. If you have facts from modern scientific tests, list them. I eagerly await any response. Note that I have done a little research myself and some thinking on this topic.

I don't see how anyone in their right mind cannot respect and value love in all it's incarnations, this includes love between two people reguardless of what anatomy they have, anatomy is meaningless, gender is a social construct and of transparent value.

This is why you should accept homosexuality as the valid lifestyle it truly is.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Spute,

You are just making excuses for sins.

If I am then shame on me. You just don't seem to be catching on that one's genetic makeup is NOT - in and of itself - a sin. How can it possibly be? There are some "Christian" religions that frown on those that are deaf, blind or have some other impairment. They believe that any physical or mental impairment is a sin. Are you on side with them, gingercat? If not, given your views on this issue, why not? After all, God gave us ears to hear with and eyes to see through.

Human beings are imperfect and fragile. God is not imperfect and fragile. I'm quite sure that He will judge everyone according to His own criteria. WE need to stop playing God and let Him figure everything out. He may well take someone's genetic makeup into account when making judgment on that particular person. Meanwhile the rest of us should perhaps not be assuming that WE have it all together. There is much fingerpointing by ignorant Christians toward others and it sickens me.

According to the Bible I am allowed to divorce my husband because he has porn hobby but because he does not want to we dont (we are seperated).

Now I would like to divorce him and get married to another loving man. This is my selfish desire. I will not allowed my selfish desire to control me because of my loyalty to my Lord.

Not necessarily aimed at you gingercat, but too many Christians have their noses so stuck in the Bible that they forget that God gave them a brain with which to reason. One's brain is God-given too. Wanting to get married to a loving man is hardly a selfish desire. God gave humans the desire to love and be loved. Then, according to one's interpretation of the Bible, God then wags His finger and prohibits this under certain circumstances. The original post asked ...why?

As Christians we should not allow our selfish desires to control our lives. We have obligation to obey what Jesus teaches. What kind of faith is it if we cannot control ourselves in our daily lives in every aspect of our lives.

So, let us all be miserable in the process, eh? If this is Christianity then I will continue to question it. The next thing that could happen is that Christians will be walking through the streets flailing themselves with whips as an atonement for their transgressions. Is it REALLY necessary to punish ourselves in our desire to follow Jesus?

 

[gingercat]

Neither homosexuality nor wanting a divorce are lustful, though, so they wouldn't count.

What are you talking about Art guy? Homosexuality is sin because they act on it. Who cares if they are not acting on it?

 

[gingercat]

Spute, I don't believe SDA people agree with you!!! How about it Jay T or other SDA members?

 

[Novum]

Homosexuality is sin because they act on it. Who cares if they are not acting on it?

And the gingercat award for contradiction goes to...gingercat! :roll:

 

[Sothenes]

This Wikipedia article covers the subject in depth. Some interesting quotes:

"There is no credible, scientific evidence supporting successful "treatment" of sexual orientation, and some persons have reported that great harm was inflicted on them by such "treatments"."

Dr. Robert Spitzer argued that some "highly motivated" homosexuals may be able to turn themselves into heterosexuals..-pg62..Time, May21,2001

Dr Spitzer is a professor at Columbia University who led the charge in 1973 to move the population to think that Homosexuality wasn't a mental disorder

 

[Sothenes]

I do not know. If you seek answers to these questions, I would recommend you read the sources and studies cited in the Wikipedia article I linked above.

Wikipedia is a nice source of information but it gets locked whenever people fight over the facts which means it is not a credentialed source.

 

[Sothenes]

MY question would be ...are we Christians dealing with this entire 'sexual orientation' thing in the right manner, i.e. looking at it within its scientific context rather than digging through our Bibles and waving a few condemning and ambiguous texts at others?[/color]

The Bible is not ambiguous on Homsexuality.

 

[Sothenes]

If you are not satisfied with Wikipedia's sources, I invite you to research the scientific community at large. Because the current scientific consensus is that homosexuality is genetic, you can search whichever scientific journals or articles you'd like and still find the same conclusion being reached.

The scientist who made the claim (Homosexuality and Genetics) was interviewed and I have a copy of that interview which contradicts his own findings.

 

[Sothenes]

And if something isn't in the original texts of Scripture, you cannot assume that God hates it or hates even the people who commit the 'sin'. Well, there's my opinion. I'll try to clarify it if people want explanations.

My concern is that if laws against homosexual feelings toward another can be found in the original scriptures, then LET ME KNOW. We already know that laws against sodomy are found in Scripture. Also, if any scientific evidence can be used against sodomy as showing that it is harmful, LET ME KNOW (PLEASE). I would appreciate it very much. Thank you.

There are synonymns in the Bible for Homosexuality and the Bible speaks against it.

 

[Novum]

Dr. Robert Spitzer argued that some "highly motivated" homosexuals may be able to turn themselves into heterosexuals..-pg62..Time, May21,2001

Dr Spitzer is a professor at Columbia University who led the charge in 1973 to move the population to think that Homosexuality wasn't a mental disorder

Argument from authority. We can find at least one "scientist" who agrees with any claim you wish to make - from creationism to scientology.

Wikipedia is a nice source of information but it gets locked whenever people fight over the facts which means it is not a credentialed source.

You have an odd, unorthodox definition of "credentialed" (and "facts", I might add).

The Bible is not ambiguous on Homsexuality.

Arguable. Regardless, it's most certainly ambiguous about lying and killing - see elsewhere in this thread and others. Its value as a source of ethics is questionable at best.

The scientist who made the claim (Homosexuality and Genetics) was interviewed and I have a copy of that interview which contradicts his own findings.

You appear to be under the demonstrably false opinion that there is only one scientist who has made or researched this claim.

 

[Sothenes]

Please provide evidence that all these survey givers have an agenda.
Please provide evidence that all these survey givers support homosexuality.
Please provide evidence that all these survey givers seek to "demoralize America" or "lead the nation straight to hell".

I can say that I'm scared to talk on the subject of Homosexuality because telling people what the Bible says on the subject is quite dangerous and that is why many people are more willing to go with the flow of society instead of being neutral or telling the truth. The truth is that hospitals already have policies against the Christian position already poisoning the well of any studies or future studies because the hospitals themselves already tell the people who do the surveys as to what is acceptable and what is not which taints their research.

 

[Novum]

The truth is that hospitals already have policies against the Christian position already poisoning the well of any studies or future studies because the hospitals themselves already tell the people who do the surveys as to what is acceptable and what is not which taints their research.

Smells like conspiracy theory. I don't suppose you have any shred of evidence for any of this?

 

[Sothenes]

You appear to be under the demonstrably false opinion that there is only one scientist who has made or researched this claim.

And you weren't under the opinion that there were no scientists or credentialed people who can hold such a position?

 

[Novum]

And you weren't under the opinion that there were no scientists or credentialed people who can hold such a position?

No. That's ludicrous.

 

[Sothenes]

This online article shows a flaw in the "scientific" studies that people are born gay.

http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/s ... 0703W2.htm

LeVay’s Statistical Chart Revealed Flaws in His Theory

"Dr. LeVay’s chart revealed that 3 of the 19 homosexual men actually had larger nuclei than did the heterosexual men. Also, 3 of the heterosexual men had smaller nuclei than did the homosexual men. Thus, 6 of the 35 male subjects he investigated, or 17 percent of his total study, contradicted his own theory.6 Yet in spite of this contradiction, the Associated Press reported that Dr. LeVay had always found that the nuclei were larger in heterosexual men and smaller in homosexual men. Again, that simply wasn’t true."

 

[Novum]

This online article shows a flaw in the "scientific" studies that people are born gay.

http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/s ... 0703W2.htm

Ah yes, the Ankerberg Theological Research Institute. A group truly at the pinnacle of cutting-edge, modern scientific research. :roll:

Edit: I notice you missed this paragraph at the bottom:

"There is no replication of this finding in any other scientific study. In fact, at least one study by Dr. Schwab in the Netherlands flatly contradicts it. Thus, there is no clear evidence to back up Dr. LeVay’s research."

I find it laughable that you would offer this as a serious article.

 

[Sothenes]

And you weren't under the opinion that there were no scientists or credentialed people who can hold such a position?

No. That's ludicrous.

The first page of this discussion on the sixth reply which is yours, you wrote:

"Nope. Every shred of scientific evidence we have suggests that homosexuality is genetic. Environment should have a minimal role, if any at all."

 

[Sothenes]

This online article shows a flaw in the "scientific" studies that people are born gay.

http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/s ... 0703W2.htm

Ah yes, the Ankerberg Theological Research Institute. A group truly at the pinnacle of cutting-edge, modern scientific research. :roll:

Edit: I notice you missed this paragraph at the bottom:

"There is no replication of this finding in any other scientific study. In fact, at least one study by Dr. Schwab in the Netherlands flatly contradicts it. Thus, there is no clear evidence to back up Dr. LeVay’s research."

I find it laughable that you would offer this as a serious article.

They can read just as well as I can. I have a college degree and I am guaranteed all the rights and privileges that the degree provides which means that I can disagree with you.

You are equating all those who disagree with you as 'not serious' which means that people who do have doctorate degrees can't have a serious opinion that contradicts your view.

 

[Sothenes]

The human X and Y chromosomes (the two “sex†chromosomes) have been completely sequenced. Thanks to work carried out by labs all across the globe, we know that the X chromosome contains 153 million base pairs, and harbors a total of 1168 genes (see NCBI, 2004). The National Center for Biotechnology Information reports that the Y chromosomeâ€â€which is much smallerâ€â€contains “only†50 million base pairs, and is estimated to contain a mere 251 genes. Educational institutions such as Baylor University, the Max Planck Institute, the Sanger Institute, Washington University in St. Louis, and others have spent countless hours and millions of research dollars analyzing these unique chromosomes. As the data began to pour in, they allowed scientists to construct gene mapsâ€â€using actual sequences from the Human Genome Project. And yet, neither the map for the X nor the Y chromosome contains any “gay gene.â€Â

from “This is the Way God Made Meâ€Ââ€â€A Scientific Examination of Homosexuality and the “Gay Geneâ€Â
by Brad Harrub, Ph.D., Bert Thompson, Ph.D., and Dave Miller, Ph.D.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2553