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Horrifying. "Given eternal flesh to feel pain for eternity".

Deavonreye

Deavonreye

Member
This thread pulls from another thread that was closed do to UR issues.

But I sat here . . . horrified. . . at the thought that was stated in response to my question:

"I would like to know how a 'spirit being' is affected by a literal fire"?

I've heard this before [when I was still in church], and was disgusted in it then, but this ideology was stated again on here.

The answer was basically [and paraphrased] that "the damned are given new bodies of flesh and blood so that, when sent to hell, they will FEEL the pain of the literal fire!" What amazes me is that this type of thought can be expressed so openly and without apology, . . . and even with an aire of "they deserve it". It is one of the things that caused me to be be drawn forcefully away from my church doctrine. The thought of this [if true] is, in my opinion, the very height of evil.

My question is, . . . do you believe this ideology to be false?
 
Deavonreye said:
This thread pulls from another thread that was closed do to UR issues.

But I sat here . . . horrified. . . at the thought that was stated in response to my question:

"I would like to know how a 'spirit being' is affected by a literal fire"?

I've heard this before [when I was still in church], and was disgusted in it then, but this ideology was stated again on here.

The answer was basically [and paraphrased] that "the damned are given new bodies of flesh and blood so that, when sent to hell, they will FEEL the pain of the literal fire!" What amazes me is that this type of thought can be expressed so openly and without apology, . . . and even with an aire of "they deserve it". It is one of the things that caused me to be be drawn forcefully away from my church doctrine. The thought of this [if true] is, in my opinion, the very height of evil.

My question is, . . . do you believe this ideology to be false?
Click to expand...

I have my doubts. I really don't think anyone knows for sure. The Scripture speaks of outer darkness which would be eternal separation from God, who is light. We can only know the that God, the Judge of the whole earth, will do right.
 
Deavonreye said:
This thread pulls from another thread that was closed do to UR issues.

But I sat here . . . horrified. . . at the thought that was stated in response to my question:

"I would like to know how a 'spirit being' is affected by a literal fire"?

I've heard this before [when I was still in church], and was disgusted in it then, but this ideology was stated again on here.

The answer was basically [and paraphrased] that "the damned are given new bodies of flesh and blood so that, when sent to hell, they will FEEL the pain of the literal fire!" What amazes me is that this type of thought can be expressed so openly and without apology, . . . and even with an aire of "they deserve it". It is one of the things that caused me to be be drawn forcefully away from my church doctrine. The thought of this [if true] is, in my opinion, the very height of evil.

My question is, . . . do you believe this ideology to be false?
Click to expand...

What is popular is not always true, and what is true is not always popular, check a Greek Translation (like Young's) on the few verses that actually are used to support the eternal punishment position.You will be surprised! Bubba
 
Deavonreye said:
Bubba, I wouldn't know where to look for what you are suggesting. Could you post a synopsis, please?
Click to expand...

Here is one example with Mt. 25:46:
"And these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT; but the righteous into ETERNAL LIFE."

Young's - "And these shall go away to punishment AGE DURING, but the righteous to life AGE-DURING."
If this verse is indeed speaking to the Jew and the destruction of the Temple, end of the Jewish religion and judgment, then Young's makes perfect sense.
Here is a second example with 2 Thess. 1:9:
"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"
Young's –" 9who shall suffer justice -- destruction AGE DURING -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,"
Again, if Paul is speaking to the impending judgment of the Jerusalem, which occurred in 70 A.D., Young's makes perfect sense.
Both verses speak to the age and realm of the 1st century, not the afterlife, though there may be a time of correction in the next life, which the word for punishment used in Mt. 25:46 means. Bubba
 
I have a feeling that a lot of the "future events" actually had to do with 1st century folk. Thanks for your input, Bubba.
 
Yes, it is horrifying. It is meant to be. It's the Gospel. Run to the Saviour---not away from Him.

John 3:16 AMPLIFIED
For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
 
Alabaster, . . . . . I'm sorry, but I couldn't run to such an entity that would do such a thing to those who only "chose poorly". . . . if what you say is true. I couldn't consciously do that and live with my actions. . . which would be one of condoning. :nono2
 
this is NOT the proper forum for the discussion of UR doctrine.

the one and one debate forum is.

please do so there. i would prefer not to lock this thread.
 
jasoncran said:
this is NOT the proper forum for the discussion of UR doctrine.

the one and one debate forum is.

please do so there. i would prefer not to lock this thread.
Click to expand...


Jason, . . . I'm not going the route of Universal Reconsiliation. I hope no one else does either, so that the thread doesn't get locked.
 
Deavonreye said:
Jason, . . . I'm not going the route of Universal Reconsiliation. I hope no one else does either, so that the thread doesn't get locked.
Click to expand...

i know that but i ask that its done there as that is the rules.

per the site admin. i was here when that set in motion(its a reallly good idea).it limits ur from being promoted all over the end times, and lets the ur believer discuss his beliefs.
 
Deavonreye said:
Alabaster, . . . . . I'm sorry, but I couldn't run to such an entity that would do such a thing to those who only "chose poorly". . . . if what you say is true. I couldn't consciously do that and live with my actions. . . which would be one of condoning. :nono2
Click to expand...

Then you will miss out on eternal life...His promise to you. It's your choice.
 
Alabaster, I would have no problems with christianity [except, of course, the complete lack of connection] if there weren't the issues I've discovered and have made posts about.

This one is VERY serious to me. Giving the "damned dead" new fleshly bodies that will experience the pain and suffering is extremely evil to me. I don't understand how anyone could see it as "a good thing".
 
Deavonreye said:
Alabaster, I would have no problems with christianity [except, of course, the complete lack of connection] if there weren't the issues I've discovered and have made posts about.

This one is VERY serious to me. Giving the "damned dead" new fleshly bodies that will experience the pain and suffering is extremely evil to me. I don't understand how anyone could see it as "a good thing".
Click to expand...

It isn't evil. It is the just result of evil.
 
Alabaster, as you stated, . . . and my former church taught, . . . . this isn't just "justice", . . . giving people the means to FEEL an "eternal fire" for all eternity is completely unecessary and [I'm sorry] is HIGHLY evil and vandictive, to be honest.

IF "hell" was created for "the devil and his angels", . . . are THEY given these "flesh and blood bodies to feel pain"?
 
Bubba said:
Here is one example with Mt. 25:46:
"And these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT; but the righteous into ETERNAL LIFE."

Young's - "And these shall go away to punishment AGE DURING, but the righteous to life AGE-DURING."
If this verse is indeed speaking to the Jew and the destruction of the Temple, end of the Jewish religion and judgment, then Young's makes perfect sense.
Click to expand...
Can you explain this thought please? I can't see that it makes ANY SENSE when you attempt to apply it to the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, especially when you consider the 15 verses which precede the verse which you have quoted.

Matt. 25:31-33 "And whenever the Son of Man may come in his glory, and all the holy messengers with Him, then He shall sit upon a throne of His glory and gathered together before Him shall be all the nations, and He shall separate them one from another, as the shepard doth separate the sheep from the goats, and He shall set the sheep indeed on His right hand, and the goats on the left" Young's Literal Translation

And then carry on up to where you quoted with Matt. 25:46 "And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during" YLT

Looking forward to your thoughts, Westtexas
 
Deavonreye said:
Alabaster, as you stated, . . . and my former church taught, . . . . this isn't just "justice", . . . giving people the means to FEEL an "eternal fire" for all eternity is completely unecessary and [I'm sorry] is HIGHLY evil and vandictive, to be honest.

IF "hell" was created for "the devil and his angels", . . . are THEY given these "flesh and blood bodies to feel pain"?
Click to expand...

No. Apparently flaming brimstone is suitable to torment spirit beings. Man is not meant to suffer it, but as he aligns himself with Satan, there is no escaping it in the form we all are to be given once we are resurrected.
 
Deavonreye said:
The answer was basically [and paraphrased] that "the damned are given new bodies of flesh and blood so that, when sent to hell, they will FEEL the pain of the literal fire!" What amazes me is that this type of thought can be expressed so openly and without apology, . . . and even with an aire of "they deserve it". It is one of the things that caused me to be be drawn forcefully away from my church doctrine. The thought of this [if true] is, in my opinion, the very height of evil.

My question is, . . . do you believe this ideology to be false?
Click to expand...
Although this is popularly believed, I do not believe such a position can be sustained when held against all that Scripture states.
 
John 5:28-29 NLT
Don’t be so surprised! Indeed, the time is coming when all the dead in their graves will hear the voice of God’s Son, and they will rise again. Those who have done good will rise to experience eternal life, and those who have continued in evil will rise to experience judgment.

Acts 24:15 NLT
I have the same hope in God that these men have, that he will raise both the righteous and the unrighteous.
 
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