Horrifying. "Given eternal flesh to feel pain for eternity".

[Deavonreye]

Then the system you have just posted is unjust. There is no excuse for it. It is ONLY based upon a person's "ability" to believe something without evidence. And no JUST that, but the ONE "lack of evidence" that is the right one. It is devoid of any real justice and punishes and awards arbitrarily.

 

[Alabaster]

Then the system you have just posted is unjust. There is no excuse for it. It is ONLY based upon a person's "ability" to believe something without evidence. And no JUST that, but the ONE "lack of evidence" that is the right one. It is devoid of any real justice and punishes and awards arbitrarily.

Pot, you are judging the Potter. Inanity.

 

[glorydaz]

You can be a great person and the most philanthropic of all, but without the cleansing action of the blood of Christ over you, you will remain separated from God, and deemed unrighteous.

You can't receive salvation by works...only faith. Good people go to hell because of their unbelief. Conversely, evil people (which we all really are) will enter the Kingdom of God by their faith in Jesus.

Amen. It's really very simple, isn't it? Unbelief is what keeps men separated from God. Sometimes it takes a man his entire lifetime to recognize his need for a Saviour...much heartache and grief. We only have this time on earth to reach out to God, after that comes the judgment.

 

[glorydaz]

Then the system you have just posted is unjust. There is no excuse for it. It is ONLY based upon a person's "ability" to believe something without evidence. And no JUST that, but the ONE "lack of evidence" that is the right one. It is devoid of any real justice and punishes and awards arbitrarily.

You're right...there is no excuse, but it's man that is without excuse.

19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Here it is in our modern language...

19 They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

21 Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused.

 

[Zakky]

I still don't understand how turning away from God is sending yourself to Hell, and not God doing so. It doesn't make sense that because I lacked subjective experience of God and did not find enough proof to believe in him that I should be punished forever. If I could speak to God I would ask him why he would punish me given the circumstances in our natural world. There are so many religions out there and all of them tell me there religion is the only true one based on cyclical logic (the book says it is true so it is). When I was a child/pre-teen I truly believed in everything the bible said...until I started to think for myself. I had always prayed as a child and never got any response from God. I have never felt connected to him or in love with him. Jesus died a terrible death for our sins, but many other people in the world have endured similar if not worse deaths. I don't want to go to Hell, but I can't find it in me to believe in God or even like him...I never asked for this life, he made me and left me to die on a little piece of dirt in the cosmos...how can I love such a thing?

 

[farouk]

Z:

The issue from the Bible for me is, what about my sins that separate me from God, without the Savior? Today, Christmas Day, is when many Christians remember the coming into the world of the Savior, in the love and mercy of God.

 

[Alabaster]

I still don't understand how turning away from God is sending yourself to Hell, and not God doing so. It doesn't make sense that because I lacked subjective experience of God and did not find enough proof to believe in him that I should be punished forever. If I could speak to God I would ask him why he would punish me given the circumstances in our natural world. There are so many religions out there and all of them tell me there religion is the only true one based on cyclical logic (the book says it is true so it is). When I was a child/pre-teen I truly believed in everything the bible said...until I started to think for myself. I had always prayed as a child and never got any response from God. I have never felt connected to him or in love with him. Jesus died a terrible death for our sins, but many other people in the world have endured similar if not worse deaths. I don't want to go to Hell, but I can't find it in me to believe in God or even like him...I never asked for this life, he made me and left me to die on a little piece of dirt in the cosmos...how can I love such a thing?

This testimony is one that bears notice that it is important that we need to know God from our youth, which is why God wants parents to be believing as one unit, and raising their children from the womb to know God and His ways.

You say you would ask Him questions....so, you do believe in a God. Now seek your Maker. He loves you and came and died in your place so you can live forever with Him.

Saying no to His precious gift of an abundant life has it's consequences.

John 10:10 NLT
The thief’s purpose is to steal and kill and destroy. My purpose is to give them a rich and satisfying life.

 

[Bazz1040]

This thread pulls from another thread that was closed do to UR issues.

But I sat here . . . horrified. . . at the thought that was stated in response to my question:

"I would like to know how a 'spirit being' is affected by a literal fire"?

I've heard this before [when I was still in church], and was disgusted in it then, but this ideology was stated again on here.

The answer was basically [and paraphrased] that "the damned are given new bodies of flesh and blood so that, when sent to hell, they will FEEL the pain of the literal fire!" What amazes me is that this type of thought can be expressed so openly and without apology, . . . and even with an aire of "they deserve it". It is one of the things that caused me to be be drawn forcefully away from my church doctrine. The thought of this [if true] is, in my opinion, the very height of evil.

My question is, . . . do you believe this ideology to be false?

Not everything that is preached or discussed in Church is Biblical, because not everyone in the Church get their belief from the Bible.

 

[Bazz1040]

What is popular is not always true, and what is true is not always popular, check a Greek Translation (like Young's) on the few verses that actually are used to support the eternal punishment position.You will be surprised! Bubba

You and many others confuse eternal punishment with eternal punishing. Eternal punishment means the punishment was an eternal one, decided by God before He created time and space. Eternal punishing (which is not in the Bible) means that the person was eternally decided by God that such a person will experience their punishment continually without end.

The first one means that the person is given the death penalty and is cast into the lake of fire; the person is consumed in the flames and ceases to exist. The latter is that the person first must be given immortal life and then be cast into Hell, where he or she will live forever in an endless pain and anguish. There is nowhere in the Bible that tell us that a sinner will be given immortal life in Hell.

 

[Alabaster]

Not everything that is preached or discussed in Church is Biblical, because not everyone in the Church get their belief from the Bible.

The problem is that the OP decided it was OK to paraphrase another member's post which was based on biblical knowledge.

So, there you have it.

 

[Alabaster]

You and many others confuse eternal punishment with eternal punishing. Eternal punishment means the punishment was an eternal one, decided by God before He created time and space. Eternal punishing (which is not in the Bible) means that the person was eternally decided by God that such a person will experience their punishment continually without end.

The first one means that the person is given the death penalty and is cast into the lake of fire; the person is consumed in the flames and ceases to exist. The latter is that the person first must be given immortal life and then because into Hell, where he or she will live forever in an endless pain and anguish. There is nowhere in the Bible that tell us that a sinner will be given immortal life in Hell.

Good effort, but it is only semantics, as grammatically, the suffix, 'ment' is the same as the suffix, 'ing'.

 

[Deavonreye]

Alabaster, . . . you elluded to it, . . .but this thread was a result of what I had heard from my former church. So relax. 2

I'm about done with this thread. A moderator can feel free to lock it, if they wish. It is just the same old thing. One set of people insisting upon an unknowable, and looking at other people as "second class citizens" for not coming to the same conclusion. They make fun of us in their own way, tell us to "get lost" in other ways, and threaten us with violence if we don't agree with them. I'm sorry, but I don't bow to such things. I won't bow to another person's own opinion. They are free to state them . . . and if it is something I can agree with [and there have been things on this site that I have agreed with, so I'm not "just here to stir up trouble], I will. But I won't be bullied by the majority.

 

[Alabaster]

Alabaster, . . . you elluded to it, . . .but this thread was a result of what I had heard from my former church. So relax. 2

I'm about done with this thread. A moderator can feel free to lock it, if they wish. It is just the same old thing. One set of people insisting upon an unknowable, and looking at other people as "second class citizens" for not coming to the same conclusion. They make fun of us in their own way, tell us to "get lost" in other ways, and threaten us with violence if we don't agree with them. I'm sorry, but I don't bow to such things. I won't bow to another person's own opinion. They are free to state them . . . and if it is something I can agree with [and there have been things on this site that I have agreed with, so I'm not "just here to stir up trouble], I will. But I won't be bullied by the majority.

And we will always defend our faith, the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen, and the assurance about things we cannot see.

 

[Deavonreye]

That's fine, Alabaster. Just realize that some people require more than just another person's word. And that is where I have been, and why I am where I'm at. Hearing lots from people, but nothing from the god they serve.

I'll be gone from my computer the rest of the day.

 

[Alabaster]

That's fine, Alabaster. Just realize that some people require more than just another person's word. And that is where I have been, and why I am where I'm at. Hearing lots from people, but nothing from the god they serve.

I'll be gone from my computer the rest of the day.

The only word you need is God's word. No argument, just open it and read and listen.

 

[Elijah674]

Alabaster, . . . you elluded to it, . . .but this thread was a result of what I had heard from my former church. So relax. 2

I'm about done with this thread. A moderator can feel free to lock it, if they wish. It is just the same old thing. One set of people insisting upon an unknowable, and looking at other people as "second class citizens" for not coming to the same conclusion. They make fun of us in their own way, tell us to "get lost" in other ways, and threaten us with violence if we don't agree with them. I'm sorry, but I don't bow to such things. I won't bow to another person's own opinion. They are free to state them . . . and if it is something I can agree with [and there have been things on this site that I have agreed with, so I'm not "just here to stir up trouble], I will. But I won't be bullied by the majority.

Hang in there guy, you are going through a type of hell now, huh? (with this teaching)
Read Matt. 10:25 for what 'some' are to expect from their church brethern??
And this is just 'one' of satan's garbage can of false doctrinal stuff!

--Elijah

 

[Alabaster]

Hang in there guy, you are going through a type of hell now, huh? (with this teaching)
Read Matt. 10:25 for what 'some' are to expect from their church brethern??
And this is just 'one' of satan's garbage can of false doctrinal stuff!

--Elijah

There's nothing false about it. Calling the truth of eternal separation from God garbage is nullifying everything that you attempt to convey about everything else.

 

[jasoncran]

The only word you need is God's word. No argument, just open it and read and listen.

You know some are athiest because of men in the church and others because they feel God abandoned them, and other because God didnt heal thier loved one.

in all three theres anger, and bitterness toward God and thus blindness.

Only time and God can remove this and the person must be willing.

until then we ladies and gents arent helping. I say this as I have brought devonrye to a former agnostic who prayed and didnt get the answer and was bitter for yrs even though he was raised in church and did come to christ. he went so far to deny the lord and didnt want to talk, think, acknowledge the Lord as in the bible.

keep this in mind as this hurt is real and nothing to just blow off and Go praise the lord my mom died and i prayed for her healing and she loved you lord.

if any of you has lost a loved one and prayed for them to be saved and or healed or a child. you understand what i just said and how easy it is to be angry with the lord.

 

[Deavonreye]

The only word you need is God's word. No argument, just open it and read and listen.

I've read it many times. . . and not just the parts that christians tell "baby christians" to read. I listened . . . and heard nothing but my own thoughts.

There's nothing false about it. Calling the truth of eternal separation from God garbage is nullifying everything that you attempt to convey about everything else.

This thread isn't about "eternal seperation". . . . but about the ideology of "giving flesh to the damned so they can feel pain for eternity.

 

[Bazz1040]

[/B]

I've read it many times. . . and not just the parts that christians tell "baby christians" to read. I listened . . . and heard nothing but my own thoughts.

That's your problem right there. You can't listen to someone talking and at the same time thinking of something to answer back…..thanks God for the internet because it is impossible to interrupt when someone is speaking as many do face to face.

True listing require paying close attention to what is being said and a willingness to come back to learn more. A student does stop going to school just because he does not get all the answers at one time…a good student respects and trust his teachers that they know more about the subject then he does.....learning is a process and it takes time and one never stops learning as long as they are willing to learn and realize that they don't have all the answers.