Horrifying. "Given eternal flesh to feel pain for eternity".

[Elijah674]

Part one by Elijah:

Two class of man seen 1000 years apart. It documents that these are DEAD! Standing only by [Record Books of their WORKS!] See Eccl. 12:13-14)

[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Another to understand the above Word of 'ever and ever. In Exod. 21:2-6 we see this Word of 'forever' meaning only for as long as man lived and in Jonah 2 we see the same context of how long 'forever' means there including the repeat in the N.T. as you'ins like to call it. (about Christ) This is a very good chapter to see at what dept one can sink & God still hear the prayer in His Temple! But we want you'ins false teaching for how long 'forever' is, huh??
[6] I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
[7] When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.

And God gave another place in Jude & 2 Peter being EXAMPLES + Sodom & Gomorrah not still BURNING as an Example, with ASHES as their END!

As silly as this verse is when one tries to garbage/tise it up with being taken literal, 'i' will post it up.
Mark 9:44
[43] And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
[44] Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

(part two will follow)
​

 

[Elijah674]

(Part two)

[45] And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
[46] Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
[47] And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
[48] Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Again!!!! FORUM, Read 1 John 4:6 + 2 Peter 3:16 [last part of the verse!]

OK:Jer. 17 we find this Word..

Here is another verse about.. 'and it shall not be quenched' (you can look it up!)

[27] But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, [and it shall not be quenched.]


And find the time/frame prophsied + when Jer. 52 came as a 'finished' first time prophesy, and surely a True Bible BELIEVER knows that Jerusalem [IS NOT STILL BURNING AS UN/QUENCHED].

Yet, Christ's Words in Mark are hammered over & over again as an eternal fact by 'some' something's! of Rev. 17:1-5.

And the only thing left in Jer. 19:6 valley of slaughter? Read verse 14-15! What was left was the the worm's of this dumping place of the dead., which see the last repeat on Mal. 4:1-3 & Obad. 1:16 above verses.

--Elijah

 

[Deavonreye]

I never called you a liar. Satan is the liar. You are just believing what he tells you.

Faith is a substance. It is a thing. What we have faith to believe that God gives is a certainty. We can therefore know. Such is the miracle of God's grace on us.

Hebrews 11:1 NKJV
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.


Amplified
NOW FAITH is the assurance (the confirmation, the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].

Hope doesn't have any REAL "substance". Hope is meaningless in most cases, and even in the best case senario, it probably would have happened anyway.So, it isn't a real "hope". And when you heap "faith" and "hope" together, . . . perhaps you have a positive outlook on the future, . . . but you are guaranteed nothing. . . and that is why this isn't a real "substance". It is just willful thinking.

 

[Alabaster]

Hope doesn't have any REAL "substance". Hope is meaningless in most cases, and even in the best case senario, it probably would have happened anyway.So, it isn't a real "hope". And when you heap "faith" and "hope" together, . . . perhaps you have a positive outlook on the future, . . . but you are guaranteed nothing. . . and that is why this isn't a real "substance". It is just willful thinking.

False.

When we are aligned with God's plan, our faith is a substance as sure as concrete. The scriptures speak the truth.

 

[jasoncran]

Hope doesn't have any REAL "substance". Hope is meaningless in most cases, and even in the best case senario, it probably would have happened anyway.So, it isn't a real "hope". And when you heap "faith" and "hope" together, . . . perhaps you have a positive outlook on the future, . . . but you are guaranteed nothing. . . and that is why this isn't a real "substance". It is just willful thinking.

I dont see much or any cancer afflicted friends calling out to the cosmos for help.
eh accept it and die slowly or end it quick because their no real purpose after all.
life,death, kids, work, all that is meaning less.

I love your philosophy, if i believed that after my return from war. i would be dead too, suicide.

 

[Deavonreye]

False.

When we are aligned with God's plan, our faith is a substance as sure as concrete. The scriptures speak the truth.

Please demonstrate this "concrete substance" of god's plan. Not doctrine, ideology, or your own personal opinion. You CANNOT state a vague book about a "plan" as concrete. Evidence of your claim is. . . . . ?

 

[Deavonreye]

I dont see much or any cancer afflicted friends calling out to the cosmos for help.
eh accept it and die slowly or end it quick because their no real purpose after all.
life,death, kids, work, all that is meaning less.

I love your philosophy, if i believed that after my return from war. i would be dead too, suicide.

Jason, . . . I'm sorry, . . . but I didn't understand your post at all.

 

[jasoncran]

Jason, . . . I'm sorry, . . . but I didn't understand your post at all.

you say that theres no hope as in something to live for.

you are then stating that theres nothing that is bigger then you will last on that which made up that is "false hope"
islam false
judiasm false
all religions false
no God

only naturalism , therefore what do men have to live for if we really know that all that is will be dust sooner or later?

in my struggle after war and the evil that i saw, and what i went through it was only my faith that kept me.


if that is false and i knew it i would have ended it. For no shrink could answered my questions.

you talk about not the attrocities that God ordered, try seein them upfront and its the taliban and or Russians that did that stuff.

You come back the whiny, fat,lazy , american life and try to listen to people bellyache about thier problems.

and you have to make sense of what you saw, the burnt mangled babies(parents did this to them), the dead ones,a soldier who was blown to bits so much so that they put him in an 40mm ammo can and he had wife and kids to live for and know they have no dad/husband.

I was angry, numb to emotions, life and death meaningless at times.and i could go on about how i looked at people like animals at times.

what is the answer you have for that?

to this day i dont have all the answers, only my faith in God who told me He would heal me, and slowly he has.

suffering, seen it.

 

[Deavonreye]

you say that theres no hope as in something to live for.

you are then stating that theres nothing that is bigger then you will last on that which made up that is "false hope"
islam false
judiasm false
all religions false
no God

only naturalism , therefore what do men have to live for if we really know that all that is will be dust sooner or later?

in my struggle after war and the evil that i saw, and what i went through it was only my faith that kept me.


if that is false and i knew it i would have ended it. For no shrink could answered my questions.

you talk about not the attrocities that God ordered, try seein them upfront and its the taliban and or Russians that did that stuff.

You come back the whiny, fat,lazy , american life and try to listen to people bellyache about thier problems.

suffering, seen it.

Okay, jason, I see what you're saying. First, thank you for your service!

As for "hope", . . . I don't place it in some unknown/unknowable afterlife. What I have to live for is my family. To me, that is of far more value than "god" ever did in my time as "a christian". My family is what is real. That is actual substance. If my only crime is "not being able to identify or rationalize a relationship with god and some afterlife", then that isn't my issue.

I'm sorry that you experienced the horrors of war. And you have a point about coming back to a nation that whines about the price of gas going up a penny. I share that . . . . not the horrors of war, but the distain of our elitest society. Now, please bare with me, . . . but imagine those horrors magnified 10 BILLION times, and you have the horrors billions [if not trillions] will face in hell, . . . NOT because of their own doing [because I completely reject the faulty ideology of people "choosing to go to hell" as the absurdity that it is], but because they were forced, outside of their will into this chamber of horrors.

 

[jasoncran]

Okay, jason, I see what you're saying. First, thank you for your service!

As for "hope", . . . I don't place it in some unknown/unknowable afterlife. What I have to live for is my family. To me, that is of far more value than "god" ever did in my time as "a christian". My family is what is real. That is actual substance. If my only crime is "not being able to identify or rationalize a relationship with god and some afterlife", then that isn't my issue.

I'm sorry that you experienced the horrors of war. And you have a point about coming back to a nation that whines about the price of gas going up a penny. I share that . . . . not the horrors of war, but the distain of our elitest society. Now, please bare with me, . . . but imagine those horrors magnified 10 BILLION times, and you have the horrors billions [if not trillions] will face in hell, . . . NOT because of their own doing [because I completely reject the faulty ideology of people "choosing to go to hell" as the absurdity that it is], but because they were forced, outside of their will into this chamber of horrors.

they sent themselves there. its like this. you choose not take the treatment for a disease, and you know that doc told you take and live or die horribly.

you die and your family blames the doc who had the cure and didnt make the patient by force take it.

something about free will.

If God took all the evil away how would we ever know what Good is as it has no opposite?

think about. we cant see God is Good if we dont ever know about evil.
that is why he lets satan do his thing.

c.s.lewis after his sickness and near death wrote a book on pain and how it points to God.

you want free will but now consequences,

think about a man murders millions, dies poof nothing
a man helps a millions, dies poof nothing

what's the difference?
both end in the same place nothing as in state of nonexistance.

now then before you could say that he(the good guy ) died in contentment.
let me ask you this?

how many murders have been commited and men let them go and also the murder was never found and dies in peace?

no justice for that family, no justice for society.

God is a god of justice.

He spared not his own son from his wrath and determined he who knew no sin to die on the cross and suffer a horrible death.

 

[jasoncran]

i hope this never happens to you.

what hope will you have when you loose said family?

that hope is now dead and cant help you at all.

then what?
i cant speak on that as i havent been there but i know a friend who did.
lost her daughter to a pain doc
son to the same pain doc
uncle to the same pain doc
sister dies of cancer
husband left her

only one son left, all that within 6 yrs.

she has custody of her daughter's son as the father is a dirtbag and didnt want him.

yet despite all this and many of angry moments (she has hinted) of yelling at God for allowing it, still serves him

I dont understand that struggle at all and wont pretend to. In order , for me understand that one i would have to go through that.

 

[Deavonreye]

The problem with "the choice" is that only people in their own strict religion see this as black and white. Christianity is but one religion, . . . I'm sorry, . . . ."relationship" :. . . amongst MANY others. First, a religion needs to establish evidence why they are right, and ALL the others are wrong. This can't be done outside of "personal conviction".

With that TRUTH, . . . "they choose hell" is a logical absurdity.

I'm not one that says that "everyone just ceases to exist". That could very well happen. I have no idea. As for "someone needing to be punished for killing millions"? . . . . . That's not even the issue. Someone could live a wholesome life, never doing anything harmful to anyone. Tell me how that person deserves an eternity of pain ALONG WITH the murderer of millions of people? This isn't Dante's Inferno here. Hell is Hell! And it is NOT . . . just.

 

[jasoncran]

The problem with "the choice" is that only people in their own strict religion see this as black and white. Christianity is but one religion, . . . I'm sorry, . . . ."relationship" :. . . amongst MANY others. First, a religion needs to establish evidence why they are right, and ALL the others are wrong. This can't be done outside of "personal conviction".

With that TRUTH, . . . "they choose hell" is a logical absurdity.

I'm not one that says that "everyone just ceases to exist". That could very well happen. I have no idea. As for "someone needing to be punished for killing millions"? . . . . . That's not even the issue. Someone could live a wholesome life, never doing anything harmful to anyone. Tell me how that person deserves an eternity of pain ALONG WITH the murderer of millions of people? This isn't Dante's Inferno here. Hell is Hell! And it is NOT . . . just.

they didnt take the cure and refused God, he told them that is the punishement

its also saying the same thing as if you do the crime you do the time!

and if that time is the death sentence for the wanton murder of someone that isnt that a choice you made you choose to take a life and the judge because of that act sentenced you the the chair.

isnt that a choice?

if a choose to steal then i also choose the punishment.

actions have consequences.

and i dont buy dantes inferno at all.
i am not catholic.

 

[Deavonreye]

The problem is that "the judge" may be someone other than christianity believes him . . . .OR her. . . . . to be. I know that those IN christianity MUST hold to their belief that the god of the bible is "the only true god", . . . but that is just an opinion. Fervancy does not equate to truth.

Yes, actions have consequences. . . .and they are most always paid here on earth. But we keep going back to "the murderer". . . . . and I keep trying to say that "the virtuous person" receives as much "wrath of god" as the murderer of millions. It isn't just.

 

[jasoncran]

The problem is that "the judge" may be someone other than christianity believes him . . . .OR her. . . . . to be. I know that those IN christianity MUST hold to their belief that the god of the bible is "the only true god", . . . but that is just an opinion. Fervancy does not equate to truth.

Yes, actions have consequences. . . .and they are most always paid here on earth. But we keep going back to "the murderer". . . . . and I keep trying to say that "the virtuous person" receives as much "wrath of god" as the murderer of millions. It isn't just.

that is because theres not "virtueous person"outside of christ.

when i stole, lied and so and was in the act of bisexuality i thought i was "virtous"
and let me ask you this?

if i saved a billion souls should i be reprieved if i stole money no matter how small?

i know of workplaces that dont hire you if answer that wrong. They want honest employees who wont steal a pen or a paperclip at all.

the dandy bread co and also frito-lay co are like that.

you want to see hey God i helped this and did this and yet ask him to ignore those things that you did wrong.

he demands perfection and no man can meet it that is why christ is needed.

if you refuse then you will be judged on the ot law standard or the laws written on your heart if you are a gentile and that didnt respond to the cross if told.
i dont believe he sends those that didnt hear to hell , thus the purpose of the millenial reign.

i dont buy the "virtous argument" at all for i know some that were like that and came out ,and they realised that they werent honest

if you lie once what are you?
if steal one what are you?
if kill once what are you?
if you have had sex with a married woman once what are you?
if you have had sex with a girl once (unmarried) what are you?

 

[Deavonreye]

that is because theres not "virtueous person"outside of christ.

when i stole, lied and so and was in the act of bisexuality i thought i was "virtous"
and let me ask you this?

if i saved a billion souls should i be reprieved if i stole money no matter how small?

i know of workplaces that dont hire you if answer that wrong. They want honest employees who wont steal a pen or a paperclip at all.

the dandy bread co and also frito-lay co are like that.

you want to see hey God i helped this and did this and yet ask him to ignore those things that you did wrong.

he demands perfection and no man can meet it that is why christ is needed.

if you refuse then you will be judged on the ot law standard or the laws written on your heart if you are a gentile and that didnt respond to the cross if told.
i dont believe he sends those that didnt hear to hell , thus the purpose of the millenial reign.

i dont buy the "virtous argument" at all for i know some that were like that and came out ,and they realised that they werent honest

if you lie once what are you?
if steal one what are you?
if kill once what are you?
if you have had sex with a married woman once what are you?
if you have had sex with a girl once (unmarried) what are you?

jason, . . . are you really trying "way of the master" propoganda on me?

Have you seen the information about Allah and Muhammad?
Then,

Have you ever worn silk with gold?
Do you feel safe from Allah's plans?
Have you ever missed Friday prayers to Allah?
Have you ever cursed?
Have you ever not fasted on the day of ramadan?

I say this tongue in cheek. . . . I disregard them too. The point is, you have no evidence to push that YOUR god will punish me when other religions would do the same to you if THEY were right. And remember that the Qur'an states that it is god's truth. [And I'm on the record stating that Islam isn't right either].

Furthermore, . . . AND more importantly, . . . this is just another way that Christianity chooses to place people under condemnation at all times. Even when a person DOES get saved, they are still considered to be "a worm", and still "deserving of hell". Why? Because a book and some followers happen to form that opinion. But, to answer your questions, . . . .

if you lie once what are you? A person who told a lie, once. Not a liar in all things.
if steal one what are you? A person who stole something. Not a theif, by trade.
if kill once what are you? If a person did it out of cold blood, they are guilty of murdering one person.
if you have had sex with a married woman once what are you? A husband?
if you have had sex with a girl once (unmarried) what are you? Someone who may not have made the right decision,. . . or perhaps did.

What Ray Comfort forgets to understand is that he wouldn't see this type of "questioning" out to its logical conclusion.

If you love someone deeply, what does that make you?
If you give a dollar to a worthy charity, what does that make you?
If you serve a hungry person some food, what does that make you?
If you give clothes to the needy, what does that make you?
If you save the life of one person, . . . what does that make you?

 

[jasoncran]

jason, . . . are you really trying "way of the master" propoganda on me?

Have you seen the information about Allah and Muhammad?
Then,

Have you ever worn silk with gold?
Do you feel safe from Allah's plans?
Have you ever missed Friday prayers to Allah?
Have you ever cursed?
Have you ever not fasted on the day of ramadan?

I say this tongue in cheek. . . . I disregard them too. The point is, you have no evidence to push that YOUR god will punish me when other religions would do the same to you if THEY were right. And remember that the Qur'an states that it is god's truth. [And I'm on the record stating that Islam isn't right either].

Furthermore, . . . AND more importantly, . . . this is just another way that Christianity chooses to place people under condemnation at all times. Even when a person DOES get saved, they are still considered to be "a worm", and still "deserving of hell". Why? Because a book and some followers happen to form that opinion. But, to answer your questions, . . . .

if you lie once what are you? A person who told a lie, once. Not a liar in all things.
if steal one what are you? A person who stole something. Not a theif, by trade.
if kill once what are you? If a person did it out of cold blood, they are guilty of murdering one person.
if you have had sex with a married woman once what are you? A husband?
if you have had sex with a girl once (unmarried) what are you? Someone who may not have made the right decision,. . . or perhaps did.

What Ray Comfort forgets to understand is that he wouldn't see this type of "questioning" out to its logical conclusion.

If you love someone deeply, what does that make you?
If you give a dollar to a worthy charity, what does that make you?
If you serve a hungry person some food, what does that make you?
If you give clothes to the needy, what does that make you?
If you save the life of one person, . . . what does that make you?

so if one person kills a person, and he isnt a murder. he didnt kill. he didnt one and only once

basic english.

thief is only a person who steal once last time a checked and

on the married one that is from an umarried one

again DO YOU really believe that the cosmos who doesnt care, has no intellgence , doesnt know of us gave us moral laws

or was it a group of men?

it had to be a group of men if God didnt exist and then that makes the entire debate shift to what you really want, Men to be called Good.


someone had to say rape is wrong, it didnt just pop in someones had by chance one day. the first time it was done that man or woman did just think hey(the assilant i kinda of like this)

and the women (this dont feel good) and they have kids and those kid see it and its all of sudden wrong.

some one had a decision otherwise
my second from the bottom siggy applies well.

"this sentence randomnly generated by evolution kindly ignore the typing ape(he knows nothing)"

so if a murder does a lot of God that makes his deed ok, we just forget that he did that all is well?

or if that lie cause someone some serious damage then its ok, and the powers that is beyond should just go
well ok you mr, murder go to heaven because you save 10 lives.

to the liar well since only lied once and paid back the guys or other Good i'll ignore the lie

is that the God you really want?

if men did that then we have some serious problems we could then bribe judges.

now we do take that into consideration in some cases but not for serious charges.

let me ask you this as i have little patience these days for games.

if you dont believe in this religion and dont want believe what we say. why are you here?

i dont understand athiest/agnostics. if i think they are wrong i dont go thier sites and state my opinion of them and thier believes and call them master of proganda.

i leave them ALONE. I worked with a master mason and i asked him questions to be sure what he said it what the masons say and what i hear is true but I Did NOT tell him he was wrong as i knew that he was set in his beliefs.

pointless to argue with persons when they are set.

by saying that i'm wrong and that makes you just as GUILTY thus you have set the standard

this is a black and white statement
" i dont think that there is black and white"

that is delineating something. you have said i'm wrong and by logic you must be correct thus you have made a black and white statement.

 

[Deavonreye]

A person who kills, or lies, or steals, should be held accountable, but to a degree, . . . and one definitely not infinite. But that same person who kills, lies, or steals, . . . but then has a "heart felt salvation experience", they no longer receive the same "justice", . . . why? ONLY because they made a decision in their mind. Awarding people based upon a mental decision, . . . of which it can only be "by faith", because evidence is not there for it, . . . .that is unjust!

I have never killed anyone, nor do I plan on it. My will ends when another person's will is affected [usually adversely].

I have done things that would be considered bad. But I have also done good things. The falacy of this type of argument [as promoted by The Way Of The Master] is that only the BAD things make you absolutely "a liar", "a thief", etc. . . . however, doing GOOD things never makes the person absolutely "love", "benevoence", . . . or even "savior". The ideology [WOTM] is faulty.

 

[Alabaster]

Please demonstrate this "concrete substance" of god's plan. Not doctrine, ideology, or your own personal opinion. You CANNOT state a vague book about a "plan" as concrete. Evidence of your claim is. . . . . ?

Matthew 21:21 NLT
Then Jesus told them, “I tell you the truth, if you have faith and don’t doubt, you can do things like this and much more. You can even say to this mountain, ‘May you be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and it will happen.

Nothing vague about it. I have personally moved mountains in my life by faith.

 

[Alabaster]

A person who kills, or lies, or steals, should be held accountable, but to a degree, . . . and one definitely not infinite. But that same person who kills, lies, or steals, . . . but then has a "heart felt salvation experience", they no longer receive the same "justice", . . . why? ONLY because they made a decision in their mind. Awarding people based upon a mental decision, . . . of which it can only be "by faith", because evidence is not there for it, . . . .that is unjust!

I have never killed anyone, nor do I plan on it. My will ends when another person's will is affected [usually adversely].

I have done things that would be considered bad. But I have also done good things. The falacy of this type of argument [as promoted by The Way Of The Master] is that only the BAD things make you absolutely "a liar", "a thief", etc. . . . however, doing GOOD things never makes the person absolutely "love", "benevoence", . . . or even "savior". The ideology [WOTM] is faulty.

You can be a great person and the most philanthropic of all, but without the cleansing action of the blood of Christ over you, you will remain separated from God, and deemed unrighteous.

You can't receive salvation by works...only faith. Good people go to hell because of their unbelief. Conversely, evil people (which we all really are) will enter the Kingdom of God by their faith in Jesus.