House Churches

[electedbyHim]

You don't believe we should make church more affordable for those who increasingly have less? That's what she was saying in context:

Not really talking about worship services, but rather Churches who have many programmes and ministries and missionary desires and wanting to build larger buildings to house bigger (predicted) congregations etc. There is nothing wrong with these things. What I am saying is that the church is still living in the days when these things related to a world that needed them. Now, I believe that the churches have not taken into account that the society we live in has changed and to be relevant in the world today, we need to adjust to that change...

I know that attending a house church would cost nothing and sometimes members will actually bring something for supper. Also house churches are more personal and members are able to make closer relationships there then they would in some of those large congregations that has to have more than one service per day.

I did not read it that way.

She can reply if she likes.

 

[NoahK]

Society has changed so dramatically that people are finding it difficult to feed and clothe their families, to pay their bills and to be able to find suitable accommodation that does not take a majority of their wages. We used to see these things happening in third world countries but now they are touching the western world. As believers I see that in the midst of all this chaos, churches are still thinking in a way that does not reflect what is happening in our society. They are still in the mindset of building bigger churches, creating ministry schools for evangelism or missionary work but the world we live in now, has changed. Even as those who have lost hope, the hurting, the broken, the homeless and the working poor. Some of these people are coming into the body of Christ because they have no other avenue of help or support and God has called his church to be a light to the world, a city set on a hill. (Matt 5:14)

I believe we need to get back to the basics and began with house churches as in the days of Acts. We need to get the money used for frivolous old thinking ideologies and put them where communities are needing it the most and I am sure many believers have some good ideas on how those finances can be utilized within their communities.

I do not believe that the churches in our western world are functioning the way they should be today, because they are not taking into account societal changes or the poverty that is building up around them because of greed that mankind has been displaying. Jm2C...

Could be more specific about what you believe the basics are?

 

[Corn Pop]

Tithing to a church is not obligatory. It's an offering.

Let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.
2 Corinthians 9:7 NKJV

Tithe means a tenth so giving a tithe would mean giving 10% thats not freely give, freely recieve. The biblical tithes were for the Isralites. If the church wants to use the tithe have to follow the biblical tithes and every 3rd year would have to find a levite and give it to them and give it to the poor so they can eat and so on.

The Church offering is freely give, freely recieve and a Church leader or people who work in it are worthy of a wage if they would like to recieve it from the gifts offered by the people. I don't think like taking millions of dollars from the peoppe thou and building luxury holiday homes and purchasing private jets and so on, have to be a bit more humble and content than that. Lol.

 

[myangelsb4u]

Society has changed so dramatically that people are finding it difficult to feed and clothe their families, to pay their bills and to be able to find suitable accommodation that does not take a majority of their wages. We used to see these things happening in third world countries but now they are touching the western world.

This is the world we live in and it has dramatically changed since the covid hit back in 2020. People are losing or lost their jobs, business have closed down, the price of food and housing has risen. Families are finding it increasing harder to feed, clothe and educate their families and you can see that there are more folk using food allocation services than ever before.

As believers I see that in the midst of all this chaos, churches are still thinking in a way that does not reflect what is happening in our society. They are still in the mindset of building bigger churches, creating ministry schools for evangelism or missionary work but the world we live in now, has changed. Even as those who have lost hope, the hurting, the broken, the homeless and the working poor. Some of these people are coming into the body of Christ because they have no other avenue of help or support and God has called his church to be a light to the world, a city set on a hill. (Matt 5:14)

Churches should be the leading force behind supporting their communities an I know many of them are doing this right now but I think that the general mindset of churches, their institutions and leaders are still focussed on having the big church, building that university for theological studies, creating pathways overseas for missionary and evangelistic work - when the need is right in the city or town where they live. Right in the communities where they are shining brightly like a beacon on a hill..

The whole purpose of this thread is that I believe we (body of Christ) need to get back to the basics. We need to go back to the days of Acts where people were sharing and caring for everyone in their communities....Jm2C

 

[Corn Pop]

There are obvious scammers where a church will pressure there members to give a tithe of there wage and they have been manipulated and hyponotised to believe they have to give to the church to please God while they go hungry and can't pay there bills and the church leader is eating prime steak for dinner and has a full tank of gas. It happens. That's abuse.

 

[Corn Pop]

I went to a scam church once. I don't go to church but was invited to this church quite a big one and like it was great when I first got there and then everyone be singing songs to the Lord I thought it was amazing, then the pastor come on and basically only talked about how important donations are and after like 20 mins said he had a BBQ to attend so had to go and he left. I was disgusted. Thats the main church service and the head pastor should know his priorities, yoy get an invite to a BBQ on a Sinday your too busy, it doesn't come before Church and God. Everyone wants some bread and praise the Lord and hes going to a party and enjoy a steak. I walked out that place wiping the dust off my feet. And its not a poor church, I seen his church on TV and he's quite wealthy. It was a really bad first impression and I witness it.

In saying that I know there are good churches out there so I'm just speaking about a church I have witnessed. It was just a joke.

 

[Corn Pop]

The whole purpose of this thread is that I believe we (body of Christ) need to get back to the basics. We need to go back to the days of Acts where people were sharing and caring for everyone in their communities....Jm2C

Yes church can be in small home groups, and whoever hosts maybe the same person or it changes, the other people if they can take something over to eat. One hosts the others bring the food. Everyone gets to know each other in fellowship and study and pray and sing a song to the Lord and then everyone can have something to eat and enjoy a meal. That's not corrupt.

It don't even need to be at someone's house can have it at the park or the beach its free. No one be asking to donate and pay the church bills.

 

[for_his_glory]

The true Church of Christ is not a building with a name above the door, but is the collective body of Christ gathered together, no matter where as we are to learn, lift up and edify one another denying no one to enter, but to receive all whether they are saved or not saved yet. The works are our continued works of the Lord according to Matthew 25:31-45.

Charity starts within our own self as we give out of love for those who are less fortunate and need help. Instead of shunning those who many walk by with a blind eye and deem worthless who live on the streets, or families that need help just to pay the utilities and put food on their table are the ones that Jesus reached out to in charity. Today's society has become an all about me and that's sad that so many do not care about others anymore, especially many churches that turn away those they deem not fit to walk through the doors.

 

[WIP]

Tithe means a tenth so giving a tithe would mean giving 10% thats not freely give, freely recieve. The biblical tithes were for the Isralites. If the church wants to use the tithe have to follow the biblical tithes and every 3rd year would have to find a levite and give it to them and give it to the poor so they can eat and so on.

The Church offering is freely give, freely recieve and a Church leader or people who work in it are worthy of a wage if they would like to recieve it from the gifts offered by the people. I don't think like taking millions of dollars from the peoppe thou and building luxury holiday homes and purchasing private jets and so on, have to be a bit more humble and content than that. Lol.

This is where discernment comes into play. Anytime I see a church leader, pastor, etc. getting rich I really have to question their motives for shouldn't they be putting God's Word first in their lives? I'm not saying they should be living in poverty, but a modest lifestyle should be adequate.

In some churches the pastor manages the funds or has a big part in the management of the funds and congregants need to exercise due diligence and pay attention to what their salary is. In other churches like ours, the church council negotiates with the pastor and others on the payroll with regard to salary and if the council chooses to be generous above what the pastor needs or asks for, that's their decision.

In either case, the pastor or anyone on the payroll should not be getting rich off the church for their primary purpose is to serve God, not manna.

 

[WIP]

This is the world we live in and it has dramatically changed since the covid hit back in 2020. People are losing or lost their jobs, business have closed down, the price of food and housing has risen. Families are finding it increasing harder to feed, clothe and educate their families and you can see that there are more folk using food allocation services than ever before.

And then there are places like around here where there is no excuse to not have a job. Literally every retailer or manufacturer in this area is looking for help and struggling to find good help. But what I've been seeing for about the last decade or two is the entitlement mentality that so many new employees have. They put forth little effort to make themselves hirable or valuable as an employee or once hired show little initiative to improve their own value by taking on challenges, learning new things, or putting in a little extra effort. They expect everything to come on a silver platter. Working in engineering I dealt with a lot of frustration dealing with new field service technicians that when faced with a challenge just basically threw their hands in the air and expected me to solve all their problems from thousands of miles away on the phone because it was something new they hadn't dealt with before and my management backed them up telling me I needed to back off. Thing is, I never expected more of them than I expected of myself when I worked in field service. Maybe that's partially why I moved up in the company and they didn't?

Churches should be the leading force behind supporting their communities an I know many of them are doing this right now but I think that the general mindset of churches, their institutions and leaders are still focussed on having the big church, building that university for theological studies, creating pathways overseas for missionary and evangelistic work - when the need is right in the city or town where they live. Right in the communities where they are shining brightly like a beacon on a hill

I have raised this point in our own church asking why we think it is so important to support and/or send missionaries to faraway places rather than right here in our own back yard, especially when those faraway places already have established Christian churches in the area. I remember going to see an evangelist in a neighboring town here in central Minnesota and hearing him say how he thought it was so unusual how we in the US send missionaries to African countries and Christians in Africa, such as himself, feel they need to evangelize the US. Imagine how much further our funding could go and how much more effective it could be if we concentrated on sharing the gospel in our own local communities rather than places far away. It is certainly needed locally without a doubt. All we have to do is open our eyes and look around to see that.

 

[NoahK]

And then there are places like around here where there is no excuse to not have a job. Literally every retailer or manufacturer in this area is looking for help and struggling to find good help. But what I've been seeing for about the last decade or two is the entitlement mentality that so many new employees have. They put forth little effort to make themselves hirable or valuable as an employee or once hired show little initiative to improve their own value by taking on challenges, learning new things, or putting in a little extra effort. They expect everything to come on a silver platter. Working in engineering I dealt with a lot of frustration dealing with new field service technicians that when faced with a challenge just basically threw their hands in the air and expected me to solve all their problems from thousands of miles away on the phone because it was something new they hadn't dealt with before and my management backed them up telling me I needed to back off. Thing is, I never expected more of them than I expected of myself when I worked in field service. Maybe that's partially why I moved up in the company and they didn't?


I have raised this point in our own church asking why we think it is so important to support and/or send missionaries to faraway places rather than right here in our own back yard, especially when those faraway places already have established Christian churches in the area. I remember going to see an evangelist in a neighboring town here in central Minnesota and hearing him say how he thought it was so unusual how we in the US send missionaries to African countries and Christians in Africa, such as himself, feel they need to evangelize the US. Imagine how much further our funding could go and how much more effective it could be if we concentrated on sharing the gospel in our own local communities rather than places far away. It is certainly needed locally without a doubt. All we have to do is open our eyes and look around to see that.

One word reply: Amen.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I think the USA needs more anti poverty programs and a new safety net. And…

Churches ️ in my area tend to too closely aligned with far right politics and ideology.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Society has changed so dramatically that people are finding it difficult to feed and clothe their families, to pay their bills and to be able to find suitable accommodation that does not take a majority of their wages. We used to see these things happening in third world countries but now they are touching the western world.

Yep. Biden and terrible dem policies. Virtually-open borders, now-constant war of Ru vs Ua, h*m*s vs Isreal, etc.

We didnt experience this stuff under Trump.

 

[KV-44-v1]

I think the USA needs more anti poverty programs and a new safety net. And…

Churches ️ in my area tend to too closely aligned with far right politics and ideology.

What do you mean by your term "far right"?
Examples?

 

[myangelsb4u]

The true Church of Christ is not a building with a name above the door, but is the collective body of Christ gathered together, no matter where as we are to learn, lift up and edify one another denying no one to enter, but to receive all whether they are saved or not saved yet. The works are our continued works of the Lord according to Matthew 25:31-45.

Charity starts within our own self as we give out of love for those who are less fortunate and need help. Instead of shunning those who many walk by with a blind eye and deem worthless who live on the streets, or families that need help just to pay the utilities and put food on their table are the ones that Jesus reached out to in charity. Today's society has become an all about me and that's sad that so many do not care about others anymore, especially many churches that turn away those they deem not fit to walk through the doors.

Totally agree sister the church is not the building but the gatherers tend to worship in a building recognized by the community as a house of God. Amen!

 

[jasonc]

You don't believe we should make church more affordable for those who increasingly have less? That's what she was saying in context:

Not really talking about worship services, but rather Churches who have many programmes and ministries and missionary desires and wanting to build larger buildings to house bigger (predicted) congregations etc. There is nothing wrong with these things. What I am saying is that the church is still living in the days when these things related to a world that needed them. Now, I believe that the churches have not taken into account that the society we live in has changed and to be relevant in the world today, we need to adjust to that change...

I know that attending a house church would cost nothing and sometimes members will actually bring something for supper. Also house churches are more personal and members are able to make closer relationships there then they would in some of those large congregations that has to have more than one service per day.

You can make one very isolated or not in any setting .

I posted a video on a local community history one of two sections .I walked about to miles making a video and photographing . I was actually very mad as my wife angered me to unholy wrath and rather then see jail I decided to skip church and focus my mind after sitting for an hour and then walking.once I focused on oral history as I was told I get less and less angry .but it was there my.uou couldn't hear it .but it was .

I learn to hide feelings too well .few get PTSD and so vets will bury it and only speak to those who know it .

I can choose to hide in church during worship or not .making church large or small doesn't mean one will get involved.

Only God can .

Should my tiny church of fifty then sing modern less biblical worship songs or use hymals .worship out to put God dead center .

I choose to get in involved because God put some deacon heart into me and it was and still is in the form of the ssg that I was for a decade .

I was trained to see and enjoy that .that no matter how insignificant a job was given .do it and don't seek glory .

I hate mowing ,about two weeks ago the airport was short staff .I got told I was going to operate a zero turn on the north runway and drove the trailer to position and follow joe as he had the airport radio to talk to atc and clear .

I could have groaned .I was willing to volunteer but was beat and enjoyed that in four hours we moved both 9r,and 9l and taxiway bravo and hit the papi of both ends of runway ,27l,27r which depending on approach is either 9 or 27 and papis are on both ends . It was hot and I made one mistake with a piper aircraft on 9l .

The Gospel not programs though ministries are part of it but the Gospel itself draws not making it as entertaining.

IMHO

 

[jasonc]

Precision approach path indicator - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For those curious

 

[NoahK]

You can make one very isolated or not in any setting .

I posted a video on a local community history one of two sections .I walked about to miles making a video and photographing . I was actually very mad as my wife angered me to unholy wrath and rather then see jail I decided to skip church and focus my mind after sitting for an hour and then walking.once I focused on oral history as I was told I get less and less angry .but it was there my.uou couldn't hear it .but it was .

I learn to hide feelings too well .few get PTSD and so vets will bury it and only speak to those who know it .

I can choose to hide in church during worship or not .making church large or small doesn't mean one will get involved.

Only God can .

Should my tiny church of fifty then sing modern less biblical worship songs or use hymals .worship out to put God dead center .

I choose to get in involved because God put some deacon heart into me and it was and still is in the form of the ssg that I was for a decade .

I was trained to see and enjoy that .that no matter how insignificant a job was given .do it and don't seek glory .

I hate mowing ,about two weeks ago the airport was short staff .I got told I was going to operate a zero turn on the north runway and drove the trailer to position and follow joe as he had the airport radio to talk to atc and clear .

I could have groaned .I was willing to volunteer but was beat and enjoyed that in four hours we moved both 9r,and 9l and taxiway bravo and hit the papi of both ends of runway ,27l,27r which depending on approach is either 9 or 27 and papis are on both ends . It was hot and I made one mistake with a piper aircraft on 9l .

The Gospel not programs though ministries are part of it but the Gospel itself draws not making it as entertaining.

IMHO

Do everything (large and important or small and important) as if God is watching. Because He is.

 

[Corn Pop]

My body lives in sin, I only call myself a Christian because I put my hope and trust in Christ and i know i want to to better, like Paul said he wants to do good but does what he doesnt want to do but he knows where his salvation is and where is hope and trust and faith is and that was his joy and he stressing out trying to give the message and keep the church straight knowing what's good.

I'm a sinner. I know I cannot live up to Gods expectations so my faith and hope is in Christ alone im in the flesh and i struggle everyday. Thats all. I could try pretend to be good and perfectly righteous but I know im not and i got issues and battes, so why pretend and be a fake . It's all a spiritual battle for life. Praise God for better or worse.