How about taking Christ OUT of Christmas?

[Sir Pwn4lot]

Although it can be a great time to preach the gospels, Jesus was in fact born at the Biblical feast of Tabernacles.

I'm not particularly apt in the birth of Jesus, I do however know that it wasn't anywhere near Christmas as far as we can discern, Christians only adopted that day because Pagans didn't want to give Christmas up (obviously they wouldn't call it that lol).

Ever wonder why the world loves Christmas and Easter yet hates Jesus?

The majority of the world (33%) loves Jesus lol. Nobody hates Jesus, those who believe in him most likely love him, those who don't don't hate him because they don't believe he exists lol.

Do you hate Krishnah? No, you just don't believe he exists lol.

Also, I don't hate the concept of Jesus (In the same way that I like Harry Potter), he seemed like a fairly nice guy with some good things to say (Albeit much of it was just repeated from earlier philosophers).

Jesus once said that the world loves it's own. Jesus would have been conceived at around Christmas but He was born of water at Tabernacles.

Is it called "Mary-God-Acceptance Day"? Or is it a celebration of Christ's birth? They chose December 25th precisely because it helped to convert Pagans (Something I don't blame them for)

I'm not a big fan of christmas, more for reasons other then the topic of discussion. But When you remember Christmas and Christ within it, I would only remind you to remember the whole story. The birth of Jesus is a nice story. But without remembering the rest it's just that, a story. Remember that the power is not in the birth but in the Birth, the living a sinless life, and then dieing on a cross for our sins and resurrecting and thus over coming sin and death. You can't just remember the birth without remembering the Reason God sent his son to earth.

It's become a day in which we all gather around in solidarity and exchange presents, we don't really think about Christianity, in the same way that we don't really think about Paganism. It's a secular holiday that has meaning to many religions.

In my opinion far to many Christians forget this during this season. Sometimes it feels almost like something Satan does to get Christians to focus on only a point and negating a great deal of the power the whole story has. Just my .

Well that's your opinion, and it's fine to have it lol. Just seems that Satan, in his omniscient knowledge, could be doing something better than making Christians only share with each other, if so he's getting a little senile lol.

 

[Menno]

Two comments, if you will.....

1) When I took Greek, my professor in college starting talking about X-mas and why he did not understand why Christians got so bent out of shape about the "x" in X-mas. In Greek, the X stands for Christ. He looked at X-Mas not as "taking Christ" out of Christmas, but as an opportunity to share with others what the X stood for - historically and spiritually. He was apt to say: X-mas is not taking Christ out of Christmas, we had it first anyways!

2) For me, as we are preparing for Christmas, more emphasis is being placed on the season of "Advent". Yes, I know there is no record of "advent" in Scripture - but there is biblical support for preparation (Matthew 25). Advent reminds me that we need to be prepared to receive Jesus. It is also a remembrance, for me, of the humanity of Christ. I am not sure that we (or maybe just me) fully appreciate the humanity of Christ - that He truly did experience everything that I as a human experience. As a baby he cried (despite the Christmas carol), he had to use the bathroom, his feet got sore from walking, he went to "school", etc.

Perhaps the focus should not be if we should keep Christ IN Christmas or take Christ OUT of Christmas, perhaps our focus should be on preparing FOR Christ.

 

[theothertexasrich]

Wow, I just want to say thank you to all who responded to my post! I didn't think it would get so many replies. Lots to think about in here!

And I'll be honest, I think my mind has been changed! Here are some of my thoughts:

- In the beginning, ALL was good. Therefore, we CAN take something 'not good' (not of God) and reclaim it!
- In the December 25th square on my calendar it now says, "Christ's Birth, Observed"
- While Dec. 25 is almost certainly NOT his Birthday, there is no reason not to observe it on that day.
- Many folks either come to the Lord or get closer to him during the Christmas season, that's good right?

- And, finally, just because others insist on taking Christ out of Christmas doesn't mean I have to. I'm going to worship my Lord as usual and and also use the season to recall when THE LIGHT came into the DARK to save me. Me! Oh, and you too. :D

Brothers and Sisters in Christ, this thread has been a blessing on me. Thank you for being a part of it! :yes

 

[Sir Pwn4lot]

Two comments, if you will.....

1) When I took Greek, my professor in college starting talking about X-mas and why he did not understand why Christians got so bent out of shape about the "x" in X-mas. In Greek, the X stands for Christ. He looked at X-Mas not as "taking Christ" out of Christmas, but as an opportunity to share with others what the X stood for - historically and spiritually. He was apt to say: X-mas is not taking Christ out of Christmas, we had it first anyways!

It's not about the phrasing X-mas lol, Christians reckon that people aren't thinking of Jesus when they share. You didn't have it first, the Pagans did lol, but you've assigned some value to it and I have no problem with that.

2) For me, as we are preparing for Christmas, more emphasis is being placed on the season of "Advent". Yes, I know there is no record of "advent" in Scripture - but there is biblical support for preparation (Matthew 25). Advent reminds me that we need to be prepared to receive Jesus. It is also a remembrance, for me, of the humanity of Christ. I am not sure that we (or maybe just me) fully appreciate the humanity of Christ - that He truly did experience everything that I as a human experience. As a baby he cried (despite the Christmas carol), he had to use the bathroom, his feet got sore from walking, he went to "school", etc.

Perhaps the focus should not be if we should keep Christ IN Christmas or take Christ OUT of Christmas, perhaps our focus should be on preparing FOR Christ.

I have no problem with this, do what you like on Dec. 25th lol. The thing that's required for you to celebrate Christmas is to share with friends and family, but if you want to celebrate the birth of Jesus, Hanukkah if you're Jewish or the Winter Solstice if you're Pagan then it's not a problem for me.

Wow, I just want to say thank you to all who responded to my post! I didn't think it would get so many replies. Lots to think about in here!

And I'll be honest, I think my mind has been changed! Here are some of my thoughts:

- In the beginning, ALL was good. Therefore, we CAN take something 'not good' (not of God) and reclaim it!
- In the December 25th square on my calendar it now says, "Christ's Birth, Observed"
- While Dec. 25 is almost certainly NOT his Birthday, there is no reason not to observe it on that day.
- Many folks either come to the Lord or get closer to him during the Christmas season, that's good right?

- And, finally, just because others insist on taking Christ out of Christmas doesn't mean I have to. I'm going to worship my Lord as usual and and also use the season to recall when THE LIGHT came into the DARK to save me. Me! Oh, and you too. :D

Brothers and Sisters in Christ, this thread has been a blessing on me. Thank you for being a part of it! :yes

And I don't want you to, it's your business when and what you celebrate.

Liberal Atheists aren't like the religious right, we'll defend you. This is just one example from today:

[youtube:37vwq9tx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH-fFJuXHIQ[/youtube:37vwq9tx]

Contrary to Conservative belief we don't want church out of school, we just don't want organized prayer sessions etc.

 

[destiny]

Re: "How about taking Christ OUT of Christmas?"

At a personal level I celebrate Jesus every day so I don't feel any pressure to up the worship on special days.
At a national level they would like to remove every reminder of Jesus Christ from the public sector. The devil is the puppet master mastermind behind it all.

 

[GojuBrian]

Christmas is a celebration of giving and it started with the greatest gift of all, Jesus!

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life

Everybody knows that!! Yet some want to take away or deny the very gift that started all the giving!! :crazy

 

[turnorburn]

It started in the early 60's we have her to thank for taking prayer out of schools, it is rumored that she gave her life to Christ then mysteriously vanished leaving us to a conclusion her organization was miffed at her, we'll meet her in heaven but I seriously doubt she'll want to talk about it. The Beatles brought a bundle of eastern religions to the states then everything went south and now you have the rest of the story. But we look for a new heaven and a new earth, Praise God Jesus is coming very soon.

Hang on everyone we are in for a bumpy ride, those bumps will disappear when he comes...


turnorburn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madalyn_Murray_O%27Hair

 

[Sir Pwn4lot]

Re: "How about taking Christ OUT of Christmas?"

At a personal level I celebrate Jesus every day so I don't feel any pressure to up the worship on special days.
At a national level they would like to remove every reminder of Jesus Christ from the public sector. The devil is the puppet master mastermind behind it all.

In order for there to be freedom of religion there must be freedom from religion. I do not see why you wish to have enforced prayer sessions to Jesus, the ten commandments (but no other religious/non-religious ornaments) placed all over public property.

What you're really arguing is that the principles that the United States was founded on are sent from the devil, if that's so then go live somewhere else. This is not a religious theocracy, Iran is looking for citizens I hear.

 

[TheCatholic]

.....Christmas is not a biblical holy day.......

Gee, I could have sworn there was a whole chapter in Luke dedicated to the birth of Christ.
Silly me.

 

[Sir Pwn4lot]

.....Christmas is not a biblical holy day.......

Gee, I could have sworn there was a whole chapter in Luke dedicated to the birth of Christ.
Silly me.

I could also swear that there was nothing in there about stealing a holiday from the Pagans in order to convert them then celebrating Jesus' birthday on the drastically incorrect date of December 25th.

It's a secular holiday that some people afford special meaning to, the Pagans, the Christians, and many more. The only reason we call it Christmas is because there's a 75% majority in the US (used to be like 95%) and the majority always wins.

Christmas is about sharing, it's as simple as that, it has no religious significance unless you want it to.

 

[TheCatholic]

.....Christmas is not a biblical holy day.......

Gee, I could have sworn there was a whole chapter in Luke dedicated to the birth of Christ.
Silly me.

I could also swear that there was nothing in there about stealing a holiday from the Pagans in order to convert them then celebrating Jesus' birthday on the drastically incorrect date of December 25th......

Therer's nothing that says not to either.

But I'll tell you what IS in there, and that is the authority for the Church to "bind and loose", which means the Church has the authority to proclaim a Holy Day and make it binding.

Your turn

.

 

[Menno]

Therer's nothing that says not to either.

But I'll tell you what IS in there, and that is the authority for the Church to "bind and loose", which means the Church has the authority to proclaim a Holy Day and make it binding.

Your turn

.

The Church is a very broad term, unless you are defining The Church to refer to a select group of individuals that all believe in one way and are in unison with one another. Hopefully in your understanding of the term "Church" there is room for all those who have come to believe in Jesus Christ as the only way to God and celebrate Him. When the disciples wanted to shut up a believer, because he was not a "card-carrying disciple who dues were all paid up" - okay, I believe the disciples said because he "was not one of us", Christ did not turn him away, but rebuked the disciples for wanting to shut him up.

While it is important to recognize the birth of the Savior, Scripture does not tell us anywhere to celebrate His birth by making it into a holiday. The New Testament does not introduce any new feast days or days of celebration.

The New Testament does point out three ordinances for the Body of Believers to follow: Baptism, the Lord's Table, and Foot Washing.

 

[TheCatholic]

Therer's nothing that says not to either.

But I'll tell you what IS in there, and that is the authority for the Church to "bind and loose", which means the Church has the authority to proclaim a Holy Day and make it binding.

Your turn

.

The Church is a very broad term, unless you are defining The Church to refer to a select group of individuals that all believe in one way and are in unison with one another........

Oh, I would love to go into that subject further. But forum rules prohibit Catholics from discussing their faith. Go figure.

 

[Menno]

Therer's nothing that says not to either.

But I'll tell you what IS in there, and that is the authority for the Church to "bind and loose", which means the Church has the authority to proclaim a Holy Day and make it binding.

Your turn

.

The Church is a very broad term, unless you are defining The Church to refer to a select group of individuals that all believe in one way and are in unison with one another........

Oh, I would love to go into that subject further. But forum rules prohibit Catholics from discussing their faith. Go figure.

I find it interesting that you cut off most of my response. I suspect there are plenty of Catholic forums out there, depending which Catholic denomination one is a part of, where you would have the opportunity to discuss your faith. The question is are denominational walls that important to keep up, which the reality is, by keeping them up keep people out.

 

[TheCatholic]

I find it interesting that you cut off most of my response. I suspect there are plenty of Catholic forums out there, depending which Catholic denomination one is a part of, where you would have the opportunity to discuss your faith. The question is are denominational walls that important to keep up, which the reality is, by keeping them up keep people out.

Didn't mean to cut you off. But to answer the rest of your post would have led me to discusasing my faith as well.

Just a quick note so you know: I am a Christian. Catholics are Christians. There is no such thing as Catholic "denominations". Christianity is divided into three basic branches: Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, and Catholic. If you are a Christian, you are one of those.

I'd better leave it at that before some mod gets bent out of shape. If you'd like a basic overview, I would love for you to read this: LINK

 

[Menno]

I find it interesting that you cut off most of my response. I suspect there are plenty of Catholic forums out there, depending which Catholic denomination one is a part of, where you would have the opportunity to discuss your faith. The question is are denominational walls that important to keep up, which the reality is, by keeping them up keep people out.

Didn't mean to cut you off. But to answer the rest of your post would have led me to discusasing my faith as well.

Just a quick note so you know: I am a Christian. Catholics are Christians. There is no such thing as Catholic "denominations". Christianity is divided into three basic branches: Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, and Catholic. If you are a Christian, you are one of those.

I'd better leave it at that before some mod gets bent out of shape. If you'd like a basic overview, I would love for you to read this: LINK

I suspect that the forum allows us to discuss our faith. I have seen no restrictions against that. Actually, there are various lines within Catholicism - it is not as neat and tidy as most try to portray. Not all those that have "Catholic" within their name follow the leading of Rome.

 

[TheCatholic]

Read the link

 

[Sir Pwn4lot]

Therer's nothing that says not to either.

But I'll tell you what IS in there, and that is the authority for the Church to "bind and loose", which means the Church has the authority to proclaim a Holy Day and make it binding.

Your turn

.

That doesn't make it a divinely inspired holiday any more than the Crusades were the whim of God. It's a Pagan holiday as much as it's a Christian one, more so even.

 

[Menno]

Therer's nothing that says not to either.

But I'll tell you what IS in there, and that is the authority for the Church to "bind and loose", which means the Church has the authority to proclaim a Holy Day and make it binding.

Your turn

.

That doesn't make it a divinely inspired holiday any more than the Crusades were the whim of God. It's a Pagan holiday as much as it's a Christian one, more so even.

I suppose the question is: Can God transform (reclaim) the previous pagan holiday? Very much like God can transform (reclaim) the pagan himself.

 

[jasoncran]

menno, this forum has rules on the discussion of the catholic faith, and the reasons are a long story.
in short long before i came here there was a lot uncivility between the protestants and catholics so it was decided to limit those discussions to a minumim.