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Where there is law there is automatically potential opposition..
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How did Satan approach Eve?
- Thread starter LoneWolf123
- Start date
Where there is law there is automatically potential opposition..
The law makes sin a transgression. It doesn't mean there cannot be sin without the law.
And satan's original sin was something God read in his heart. Not an overt act. (Is. 14:13)
Quantrill
I don't believe that relates to the knowledge of good and evil. Plus, it was God who said that. (Gen. 2:18)
Quantrill
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Yes and no.. the knew what God had said. But because of innocence and not knowing what evil was, they couldn't be fully aware.
They were deceived.
Knowing, but not really knowing.
Action Vs reaction.
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Can there really be sin without a law?
A law is needed for someone to break it..
Right?
Corn Pop
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- Feb 17, 2013
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I still don't get it. I just cannot understand how there can be a sin without a rule attached that makes it a sin. What makes a sin a sin?.
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Yes, satan was in Eden unfallen at one point. And the description of that Eden, (Ez. 28:13-14) is far different than the Eden Adam and Eve were in.
Though we don't know how long a time it was from the end of the 6 day creation period and the fall of Adam, I do believe it was a very short time. Mainly because no children had been conceived as yet from Adam and Eve. And they were under the command to 'multiply and replenish the earth'. (Gen. 1:28)
Thus if you place satan's fall after the 6 day creation, then it too would have been a short time time for satan to be in Eden prior to his fall.
Quantrill
A law is needed to make sin a transgression. All of man between Adam and Moses were sinners. But they were under no law. (Rom. 5:13-14)
Quantrill
As to the origin of sin, I would go back to satan's fall. It was evil found in his heart. As to defining that sin, I would say it is anything contrary to the will of God. Which is graphically stated in (Is. 14:12-14).
A will in opposition to the will of God.
Quantrill
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King James Bible
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
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Good! But not only the will og God because to me that sounds like we don't have free will.
(My opinion
it's really about following our own true nature, which is in line with God's nature and also how we were created.. in likeness..
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Romans 2:14
Those without the law who sin are made a law unto themselves.
Heard about a guilty conscience
We always had a conscience. And also knowing the difference between good and evil..
There in is the law given only not written yet until sin started to increase so much that God had to establish the law.
I think that he didn't want to but had to.. (my opinion)
That is doing things by nature. It is not sinning by law or keeping a law. (Rom. 2:14)
Paul is clear on this in the previous verse. (Rom. 2:12) "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law."
Just as Paul said in (Rom. 5:13-14), though man is not under law, he still died because he was a sinner. He was still guilty. No one is exempt from God's judgement.
Quantrill
Good! But not only the will og God because to me that sounds like we don't have free will.
(My opinion
I know a while back I was in a discussion on 'free will'. I think it was this forum, but can't be sure. I will try and find it. I myself don't believe man has free will. He has a will. God alone has free will.
I'm not sure about following our nature. It didn't help Adam and Eve though they were created perfect. And satan was perfect till iniquity was found in him. It would only be when we obtained the nature of God in being born-again and in Christ that we have a nature to follow.
This always brings up a question with me, which I don't believe can be answered till we get to Heaven. If our will in Heaven is always going to be in agreement with God, where is the will of man? Will we be exercising our will? It's hard to imagine that we won't. But it's hard to imagine our will is always the same.
Quantrill
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So then if he is a sinner not judged by written law.
He is still judged.. by what or who?
It says they are a law unto themselves.
So there was always law and order in principle or by nature of creation..
Paul must be speaking of the written law.
Didn't Kain know it was evil unto him when he killed Abel?
He knew because I was not God's nature.. his own conscious condemned him.
I don't really know, just curious here..
Maybe not law but by self-condemnation?
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That is very interesting. Not free will but a will within some boundaries..
If so I think that is for our own good..
God said one place: I think after Babel that nothing will be impossible to them (us)
Hmmm....
Made me rethink (not the first time) do we have free will?
It might depend on what. I think God gave us the will and freedom that was more than enough for our needs and happiness..
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I would never want to disagree with God..
Not out of fear but of love.
I know that He know what is best for me and for you.
There is a government in Heaven also.. and rankings of authority.
I think that relates to the degree of our capabilities, ergo what we can and cannot, ergo there seems to be different degrees of will in that context..
Makes scenes??
(Just a theory by reason and some studying the Word)
Cygnus
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True....but I believe Adam knew it.
Adam also knew bad things would happen if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good an evil. Kinda like a child and a flame...they know it's not good to put their fingers in the flame...but don't really know until they do it and get burnt.
Cygnus
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If you're on a team and in the championship game...your will is to play and win the game. Your will is in agreement with the rest of the team.
He is judged by God without the Law. God doesn't need a written law to judge. Even without the law, men are guilty. Even without the law, they are without excuse before God. This is the message of (Rom. 1:18-32).
See (Rom. 1:20) 'without excuse'. (Rom. 1:28) 'they did not like to retain God in their knowledge'. (Rom. 1:32) 'Who knowing the judgment of God'.
Paul is not speaking of 'written law'. He is speaking of the constant witness of creation that there is a Creator, and the imprint upon man that he is created by God. (Rom. 1:19-20) No written law is necessary.
Cain is a prime example of one who is not under law, but is a sinner, and is guilty of murdering his brother. Note that God did not kill him and even protected him from man who would have killed him. (Gen. 4:15) God had not yet given a law. But Cain was still guilty. But God did not enforce judgement against that wrong immediately.
As far as how much Cain knew, of course Cain knew it was wrong. But he didn't know it was wrong by a written law. But, he did not care. Cain did not doubt God's existence at all. He spoke to God. (Gen. 4:13-14) But Cain acted by who he was of. And he was not of God. (1 John 3:12) He was of satan.
When God said in (Rom. 5:13), that 'sin is not imputed where there is no law', doens't mean the person goes scott free. It means God does not bring immediate judgement upon them for that sin, as there was no law. The person is still guilty, but does not face the 'immediate' judgement of God. The person is a sinner, but not a transgressor.
Quantrill