How do we respond to jews who believe messiah hasn't come?

[Gary]

So DavidDavid, are you really a Jew?

..... or do you just plagiarize for fun from a Jewish site? (jewsforjudaism)
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/handb ... uting.html

:-?

Here is more about the anti-missionary mischief of jewsforjudaism exposed by Jews-for-Jesus (jewsforjesus)
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publication ... missionary

It seems that people will go to great lengths (including illegal activities) to stop the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ being spread.
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publication ... ouwondered

However, it is not unexpected:
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publication ... _07/knocks
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/answers/antimissionaries

 

[Gary]

Question:

Psalms22, the pslam that says they periced(sic) my hands and feet, the word in the hebrew is like a lion. How do we get pierced my hands and feet from that?

Answer:

http://www.christiancourier.com/feature ... er2001.htm

:wink:

 

[DivineNames]

Anointing with oil is a type representing the Holy Ghost.

Jesus was anointed by the Holy Ghost.

In other words, Jesus was NEVER ACTUALLY ANOINTED!! A basic requirement of being the Messiah, and Jesus didn't fulfill it.

To claim anointing with oil is "a type representing the Holy Ghost", appears to be a desperate maneuver on your part.


How should Jesus have been anointed if he were really the Jewish Messiah?

Apparently-


"The Biblical accounts of the anointing of the first three kings of Israel, Saul, David, and Solomon, contain the necessary elements for the construction of a template for the process of anointing royalty of Israel, one of which will be the promised Jewish Messiah. According to the Hebrew Bible, these elements are:


[1] A special preparation from pure olive oil was used as the oil of anointing.

[2] Being sacred, the anointing oil was stored in the Temple.

[3] A universally recognized prophet performed the ritual of anointing a king.

[4] The prophets used the vial of oil, or the horn of oil, to anoint the new king, not merely a vial of oil or a horn of oil.

[5] The oil of anointing was poured only on the head.

[6] Anointing was tantamount to crowning a king (or appointing a high priest)."


Uri Yosef, True Messiah - Properly Anointed; False Messiah - Smeared with Ointment
http://www.messiahtruth.com/anointed.html

 

[DivineNames]

Mary the Mother of Jesus and was of the tribe of Judah.

Tribal affiliation goes via the father right? Wouldn't Jesus have been without tribe?

 

[DivineNames]

Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

A child was not born that was called the mighty God, the everlasting father and the prince of peace now was He?

That would seem strange. However, (einstein has already mentioned this) there appears to be a possible translation issue with that-

For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace." (Judaica Press)

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

God became flesh and dwelt among us. :D

The "God with us" meaning, has previously been addressed.

 

[DivineNames]

Christians trying to claim that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah... is it really any different, any more credible, than the Muslims who claim that Muhammad was predicted in the Bible?

:D

 

[DivineNames]

Re: messiah

For Gary: You wrote : "Only gene-carrying descendants are considered as descendants. This assumption is demonstrably false.

Not according to God's word in the Tanach:
1) 2 Sam 7:12-...then I will raise up your seed that shall issue from your body after you and I will establish his kingdom
2)Ps 132:11: The Lord has sworn in truth to David,from which He will not turn back, of the fruit of your body I shall seat upon the throne.

You then wrote:" Jesus got his genes from Mary and his legal standing from Joseph (thru the marriage of M+J)."...."PROBABLY through the law of levirate marriage" I want to make sure I understand your (or Glenn Miller's) position. Are you saying that if Heli had no sons, then Joseph, by marrying into Mary's family, preserves the inheritance of that line?

Gary, if you are still claiming that the Glenn Miller article is sound, are you going to clarify the position as requested?

 

[bibleberean]

Jesus has not yet been crowned or annointed King... He has an annointing from God which supercedes any thing or objection anyway. Especially an objection from a person who doesn't believe the bible in the first place.

Jesus is now the High priest and when He comes again and sits on an earthly throne the world will see Him as King.

Luke 1:30-33 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Jesus will reign in the future as King. And every skeptic's knee will bow to this King of Kings and Lord of lords.

I look forward to that day... :D

Also, this has been dealt with too... :-D

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

So we can see these issues have been dealt with...

Jesus is Lord! :angel:

 

[bibleberean]

Einstein,

An ex-Jew who is now a Christian has read your posts via email.

He say's you are a fraud.

He said,

"No true Jew would post on the Sabbath day"

He says if you are a Jew you are a "very sorry one".

What say you?

Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exodus 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Exodus 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Or were the above verses mistranslated? :roll:

 

[DivineNames]

He has an annointing from God which supercedes any thing or objection anyway.

But this is obviously a desperate maneuver to try to save the credibility of your position.

Jesus did not fulfill a basic requirement of being the Messiah. Its that simple.


How should Jesus have been anointed if he were really the Jewish Messiah?

Apparently-


"The Biblical accounts of the anointing of the first three kings of Israel, Saul, David, and Solomon, contain the necessary elements for the construction of a template for the process of anointing royalty of Israel, one of which will be the promised Jewish Messiah. According to the Hebrew Bible, these elements are:


[1] A special preparation from pure olive oil was used as the oil of anointing.

[2] Being sacred, the anointing oil was stored in the Temple.

[3] A universally recognized prophet performed the ritual of anointing a king.

[4] The prophets used the vial of oil, or the horn of oil, to anoint the new king, not merely a vial of oil or a horn of oil.

[5] The oil of anointing was poured only on the head.

[6] Anointing was tantamount to crowning a king (or appointing a high priest)."


Uri Yosef, True Messiah - Properly Anointed; False Messiah - Smeared with Ointment
http://www.messiahtruth.com/anointed.html

 

[bibleberean]

I am not desperate. :

Jesus was rejected by the Jews and not anointed nor crowned King.

God raises up Kings and brings them down...

Jesus rebuked believers and called them fools for not understanding prophecy.

Luke 24:17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

Luke 24:18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?

Luke 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

Luke 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

Luke 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done...

Luke 24:25 ...Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Jesus is returning as King and you will be on your knees before Him like everyone else.

Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

1 Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Timothy 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Don't worry you won't have doubts for long. ;-)

 

[DivineNames]

Jesus rebuked believers and called them fools for not understanding prophecy.

If the word Messiah means "anointed one", there is only one way to understand that- they will be anointed!

You have said- "Jesus was rejected by the Jews and not anointed..."

 

[bibleberean]

Jesus rebuked believers and called them fools for not understanding prophecy.

If the word Messiah means "anointed one", there is only one way to understand that- they will be anointed!

You have said- "Jesus was rejected by the Jews and not anointed..."

Yep, that is what I said. I have already given you the explanation.

You don't like the answer. That isn't my problem. ;-)

Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and he will be anointed by man.

He is already anointed of God...

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

This spoke Jesus concerning the Jews.

Matthew 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

Matthew 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

Matthew 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

Matthew 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.


Matthew 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

Matthew 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

Matthew 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

Matthew 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

Matthew 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Jesus will restore again the kingdom to Israel...

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Acts 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Jesus will again restore again the Kingdom of Israel and will be a King.

He suffered and died first and He will return...

Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Isaiah 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Jesus will return as King! :D

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

:smt023

 

[DivineNames]

Yep, that is what I said. I have already given you the explanation.

You don't like the answer. That isn't my problem. ;-)

I do like the answer actually. It is a desperate attempt to try to save the credibility of your position, and that is what I like to see from you guys. :D

 

[DivineNames]

Mary the Mother of Jesus and was of the tribe of Judah.

Tribal affiliation goes via the father right? Wouldn't Jesus have been without tribe?

Perhaps next time, when Jesus comes back, perhaps then he will be of the tribe of Judah?

:wink:

 

[einstein]

messiah

You got an opinion from an EX-JEW who is now Christian, saying I am a fraud? L.O.L. :D Does this person know anything about me? Does this person know if I asked someone to post these threads for me?

It is obvious you cannot TRULY answer one of the objections that I or others post on this web so now you try (abysmally I might add) an argumentum ad hominem, trying to attack my person and religion? :

Whenever a straightforward explanation is posted you respond with reams of scripture much of which contains the same translational errors as the original scripture about which the debate originated.

Your canard about psalm 110 is one of the oldest (and inane) in the history of the Christian-Jewish debate. This conversation between Jesus and the Pharisees could never have taken place unless it was in GREEK :evil: because that is where the problem arises. It does not arise in the Hebrew scriptures of which the depth of knowledge of the Pharisees was astounding.

Anyone with any knowledge of Hebrew knows the difference between the Tetragrammaton, (YHWH) pronounced "Adonai" and the other word "ladonee" which meand "to my master/lord". However the words are indestinguishable in Greek and this resulted in a mistranslation of the second word which was later capitalized to "Lord" in Christian bibles.

However, the problem is more insidious than this. The authors of the KJB KNEW the proper translation but as they have done innumerable times in the past, they PURPOSELY used the word "Lord" :evil:

At least the KJB had the decency to use the word "LORD" for YHWH. If you examine the NASB, they use the exact word "Lord" for both :

In the Hebrew bible, there are 24 instances of the word "ladonee". The KJB translates this as "to/unto my lord/master in 23 cases. THE ONLY EXCEPTION IS PSALM 110. In 9 instances the COMBINATION of terms YHWH occurs in conjunction with the word "ladonee" and in 8/9 cases the KJB has "LORD" and "master/lord" respectively. THE ONLY EXCEPTION IS PSALM 110. IS THAT A COINCIDENCE, MODERATOR????????????

And please don't preach to me about going to Hell because of some GT quote. The Tanach is the inspired word of Hashem. The GT contorts, twists and changes the message to suit its own purpose. I await your response in regards to the Psalm under discussion.

 

[AHIMSA]

I'm just wondering if someone would specifically reply to what was pointed out earlier about the Prophecy of the Nazarene in Matthew 2:23

He went an lived in a town called Nazareth. This fulfilled what was said through the prophets: "He will be called a Nazarene"

Yet the Bible provides no scriptural reference for this quote, unlike the other so-called prophecies. It was already pointed out that this can not be found ANYWHERE in the Hebrew Bible.

What this suggests is that Matthew simply made this up? Does that not discredit it as the perfect word of God?

 

[bibleberean]

I'm just wondering if someone would specifically reply to what was pointed out earlier about the Prophecy of the Nazarene in Matthew 2:23

He went an lived in a town called Nazareth. This fulfilled what was said through the prophets: "He will be called a Nazarene"

Yet the Bible provides no scriptural reference for this quote, unlike the other so-called prophecies. It was already pointed out that this can not be found ANYWHERE in the Hebrew Bible.

What this suggests is that Matthew simply made this up? Does that not discredit it as the perfect word of God?

Good question.

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/contradictions.html

Richard Anthony

"...There are passages in the Old Testament which say Jesus would be called a Nazarene, but it's a matter of what is meant by the term "Nazarene." A "Nazarene" came to be a synonym for one who is contemptible or despised (John 1:46). We see similar terms today dealing with racism and nationalism. But notice that the previous two prophesies in Matthew 2; verse 15 says "the prophet, saying..." (singular) then he quotes directly from the scripture; verse 17 says "Jeremiah the prophet, saying..." (singular) then he quotes directly from Jeremiah. But notice how verse 23 is worded, "which was spoken by the prophets,..." (plural) and there's no word "saying" indicating a direct quote, "He shall be called a Nazarene." Notice the difference? It's because Matthew is using a summation statement. He's using something that the people of his time would be familiar with which would state the same thing that the prophets stated in Isaiah 49:7; 53:3, Psalm 22:6, that he would be despised."

BB quotes the Gospel of John:

John 1:45-46 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph. And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.

A Nazarene was held in contempt by the Jews of Jesus day...


I don't have time to write an answer for every single question and I thought Richard Anthony's answer was well put.

 

[Guest]

Gary I am a born again Christian, I have studied other religions and came across judaism, it is the only other religion that poses many objections to christainity that I cant just ignore, I am searching for what is true, but the jewish faith is the foundation of the christainity, so we must go the old testament and read about who God is, befoe we touch the new testament. The more I study judiasm, I dont see christainity at all, I see alot of so called prophecies taken out of context from a greek version of the hebrew bible to fulfill them in the NT. Matthew claims many of them. the book of matthew says that jews from the grave walked around after christs ressurection, but this is not mentioned aywhere in world recorded history, an event like this is amazing, why is it not recorded or talked about anywhere?

 

[bibleberean]

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

1 John 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

1 John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

Romans 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.