How do we respond to jews who believe messiah hasn't come?

[DivineNames]

The only people deluded in this forum are the skeptics and atheists.

Who cares what a hard hearted "I believe anything but the bible type thinks"?

I know I don't.... ing:

Your right bibleberean, don't pay any attention to the nasty skeptics...

:-D

 

[Solo]

You can take up your case of whether I am right or wrong in my beliefs with the one who saved me. My acceptance of truth supercedes all who have accepted a lie. You included. Hopefully, when God knocks on your door you will answer, if not, we will only have this short physical moment to communicate before your exit.

If you possess 'truth', then why can't you put together some kind of genuine argument?

Perhaps you are just self-deluded...

I don't like arguing with fools. When you prove to me that you are earnestly seeking God's truth, then I will reevaluate your position of adequacy. Until then you and the accuser are equal in your attempt to undermine the truth of God.

You have already proven that you can't put together genuine argument. Its strange then, that you would really possess 'truth'...

You have no ability to discern truth in an argument, and have proven to be spiritually blind; therefore truth to you is just a word and not a value. When you are no longer spiritually blind, and can debate without sarcasm and attacks, then I will debate any topic of truth with you; however, I will not hold my breath. I feel that you are not capable of performing in the arena of truth.

 

[DivineNames]

A born again Christian has been born again. It is possible for one to believe that they are Christian without being born again. A Christian that is born again has the Holy Spirit to confirm the salavation. You will not understand this until you have the Holy Spirit. Not that difficult. You really ought to approach this topic in a more humble manner if you are seeking truth, for it seems that you are applying the devil's tactic of being accussatory of God's children.

The author claimed to have been a born again Christian. They obviously believed that they had been born again. They presumably believed they were 'born of the spirit' or whatever... If you say that they were deluded about this, how do you know that you aren't deluded about this?

As for being 'humble', I think you should be a little humble about your truth-claims. I doubt you will be however.

 

[DivineNames]

You have no ability to discern truth in an argument

Well I did discern a logical fallacy in your argument, or do you want to dispute that?


:D

 

[Solo]

A born again Christian has been born again. It is possible for one to believe that they are Christian without being born again. A Christian that is born again has the Holy Spirit to confirm the salavation. You will not understand this until you have the Holy Spirit. Not that difficult. You really ought to approach this topic in a more humble manner if you are seeking truth, for it seems that you are applying the devil's tactic of being accussatory of God's children.

The author claimed to have been a born again Christian. They obviously believed that they had been born again. They presumably believed they were 'born of the spirit' or whatever... If you say that they were deluded about this, how do you know that you aren't deluded about this?

As for being 'humble', I think you should be a little humble about your truth-claims. I doubt you will be however.

The evidence that I gave to the debate that you are in a snarl about was answered in my post of Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 1:09 pm. I know that you are unable to understand the spiritual truths contained in the Word of God, but will post again in hopes that you apply as much energy in understanding the Holy Spirit as you attempt to in understanding logical fallacies. Good Luck.

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John 2:18-19


The sealing of the Holy Spirit upon true believers gives believers all truth, and those that disregard the truth of Jesus Christ are anti-Christ.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 1 John 2:20-25

 

[DivineNames]

The evidence that I gave to the debate that you are in a snarl about was answered in my post of Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 1:09 pm. I know that you are unable to understand the spiritual truths contained in the Word of God, but will post again in hopes that you apply as much energy in understanding the Holy Spirit as you attempt to in understanding logical fallacies. Good Luck.

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John 2:18-19


The sealing of the Holy Spirit upon true believers gives believers all truth, and those that disregard the truth of Jesus Christ are anti-Christ.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 1 John 2:20-25

With regard to the Bible verses, how do they prove that you aren't deluded about believing yourself to be born again?

With regard to the holy spirit, you obviously can't appeal to it when the issue at stake is about the possibility of a person being deluded about being 'born of the spirit'. (fallacy of question-begging)

How would one understand the 'spiritual truths' contained in the Bible? With the help of the holy spirit? That can't happen, if you are deluded about being born again. Right?

You can't appeal to the holy spirit. You can't appeal to knowing the 'spiritual truths' of the Bible, if that requires the holy spirit.

How do you know that you aren't deluded about being born again?

 

[DivineNames]

You have no ability to discern truth in an argument... I feel that you are not capable of performing in the arena of truth.

I believe I could legitimately charge you with the fallacy of Question-Begging, (as mentioned before), the fallacy of False Analogy, and you did also blatantly misrepresent my position, so you are also guilty of the fallacy of a Straw Man argument.

With all those fallacies in your argument, is there much room for any actual truth?

 

[Solo]

The evidence that I gave to the debate that you are in a snarl about was answered in my post of Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 1:09 pm. I know that you are unable to understand the spiritual truths contained in the Word of God, but will post again in hopes that you apply as much energy in understanding the Holy Spirit as you attempt to in understanding logical fallacies. Good Luck.

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John 2:18-19


The sealing of the Holy Spirit upon true believers gives believers all truth, and those that disregard the truth of Jesus Christ are anti-Christ.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 1 John 2:20-25

With regard to the Bible verses, how do they prove that you aren't deluded about believing yourself to be born again?

With regard to the holy spirit, you obviously can't appeal to it when the issue at stake is about the possibility of a person being deluded about being 'born of the spirit'. (fallacy of question-begging)

How would one understand the 'spiritual truths' contained in the Bible? With the help of the holy spirit? That can't happen, if you are deluded about being born again. Right?

You can't appeal to the holy spirit. You can't appeal to knowing the 'spiritual truths' of the Bible, if that requires the holy spirit.

How do you know that you aren't deluded about being born again?

After you are born again and become a child of God you will know; until then you will do nothing more than wander around questioning everything because you have no answers of yourself. It is easier to be accusatory towards those that have, then to submit to authority yourself. I hope you find the truth of God, instead of wandering around lost in deception.

You can have the final word in this conversation. Good bye.

 

[DivineNames]

You can have the final word in this conversation. Good bye.

I will take it.

You can't respond to my points. Your argument is fallacious. You slit your own throat by claiming that someone could be deluded about being born again.


Take it easy,

DN

 

[BradtheImpaler]

You can have the final word in this conversation. Good bye.

I will take it.

You can't respond to my points. Your argument is fallacious. You slit your own throat by claiming that someone could be deluded about being born again.

DN, the essence of Solo's argument is as follows...

If you agree with him, you are born again/have the Holy Spirit. If you don't agree with him, you're not/don't.

Simple as that :wink:

 

[bibleberean]

If a person rejects the gospel after claiming to believe it then that person was never a true believer to begin with.

We don't need to prove this anymore than we need to prove that there is a God.

The evidence that a person who walks away from the faith once given to the saints is written here.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

"US" is the apostles and prophets who laid the foundation of the church

We believe the gospel and we believe those who don't are blinded by the god of this world.

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

People who ask the question "how do you know you aren't deluded" should be asking themselves the same question... ;-)

 

[DivineNames]

http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/bi ... enleaf.htm


Perhaps Gary is writing apologetics without knowing what he is talking about?

I'm not sure if Gary is going to get back to us about this, because I have learned, that Gary isn't talking to me anymore...

 

[bibleberean]

How do we respond to jews who believe messiah hasn't come?

Did we all forget what the topic was about?

Let's get back on track... 8-)

Thanks,

Robert

 

[DivineNames]

The only people deluded in this forum are the skeptics and atheists.

Interestingly, bibleberean seems to be very skeptical about certain Christian religious experience, that of Christian mystics. I am not sure if bibleberean would even consider it as 'Christian' religious experience? Perhaps bibleberean thinks it is satanically inspired?

Much of the Christian spiritual tradition, according to bibleberean, has been completely deluded. (I hope that I am not misrepresenting you here, correct me if I am wrong.)

 

[bibleberean]

How do we respond to jews who believe messiah hasn't come?

Did we all forget what the topic was about?

Let's get back on track... 8-)

Thanks,

Robert

One more time... :D

 

[TheScarletPimpernel]

How do you respond to someone who doesn't believe there's a car coming around the corner just about to run him over? Rugby tackle him to the ground? maybe? Or just say, "excuse me sir.. don't..."

But how do you respond to a Jew who doesn't believe the Messiah has come? Show him Jesus! How do you respond to anyone who doesn't believe the Messiah has come? Show them Jesus!

 

[TheScarletPimpernel]

Except.. do ye not know that Christ is alive in you? Except ye be reprobates?

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Hmmmm?

 

[DivineNames]

How do we respond to jews who believe messiah hasn't come?

Did we all forget what the topic was about?

Let's get back on track... 8-)

Thanks,

Robert

Well, for a start, its not clear that Jesus had the lineage to be the messiah. If this point could be addressed, then I think that would help with converting Jews.

 

[Nicolaj]

It is important to understand why Jews don't believe in Jesus.

many jews did know who Jesus was and many, many more are beginning to realise, I believe the veil is finally being removed from their eyes.

Luke 19: 41 [41] As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it [42] and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace -- but now it is hidden from your eyes.
[43] The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. [44] They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."



Luke 13: 34-35 34

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how many times I yearned to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were unwilling!

Behold, your house will be abandoned. (But) I tell you, you will not see me until (the time comes when) you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

What do we do?...It is all in Gods capable hands and the signs are starting already.
Praise the Lord

 

[bibleberean]

Preach the gospel.... That is the message.

If the Jews won't here it then they have the same problem as the skeptics and Atheists have...(aside from being "fools".)

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Oh well, either they see it or they don't... I do care but it is out of my hands... :smt102