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How do you know God is real?

Eventide said:
Who can read the word of God and not say... "Never a man spake like this Man"... or "Come see a man who told me all things ever I did"..
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*raises hand*

Eventide said:
There will be no excuses.. the evidence is beyond convicting.. it's undeniable and God says that those who reject Him are without excuse because He has revealed Himself to them..
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I must respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree with your statement here. The "evidence" is FAR from being convincing/convicting and undeniable. I see nothing revealed that states that "the HEBREW god sent his son to die for people and that ONLY by accepting this and living your live for him, you will be saved".
 
Deavonreye said:
*raises hand*
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Well then maybe you're perfect, have no sin, need no salvation.. etc..

I must respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree with your statement here. The "evidence" is FAR from being convincing/convicting and undeniable. I see nothing revealed that states that "the HEBREW god sent his son to die for people and that ONLY by accepting this and living your live for him, you will be saved".
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Then maybe you're beyond convincing or convicting for some reason.. there comes a time when the Lord doesn't bother calling anymore, and then even God will send strong delusion to those who reject the love of the truth.
 
Drew said:
I disagree. Here is an example. God made a commitment that the world was to be "governred" by a human being (Adam). When Adam fell, God could not go back on this commitment. And, of course, the picture we get in the Scriptures is that now Jesus is the "human being" in charge of the world.

So I would suggest that God cannot simply "undo" his earlier commitments.
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I'm not positive, but I don't think we're in that much disagreement here...:chin

First of all, as one Person of the Holy Trinity, I would say that Jesus - along with the Father and the Holy Spirit - has always been "in charge" of the world. God is in control - always - without ever taking away our free will...

No, God cannot go back on His commitment as this would be against His nature. In His covenant with Adam, it was not God who broke the agreement, it was Adam and Eve. We see this throughout the Old Testament: over and over humans turn away from God, and again and again God offers a covenant to man. The Incarnation - God became human, sacrificed Himself, and rose again - is the ultimate act of reconciliation.
 
Deavonreye said:
I see nothing revealed that states that "the HEBREW god sent his son to die for people and that ONLY by accepting this and living your live for him, you will be saved".
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I'm a Christian, and I agree with you Deavon.
"the HEBREW god sent his son to die for people and that ONLY by accepting this and living your live for him, you will be saved"
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As a Christian, I would never, ever make this statement. Taken in its entirety, it's a very poor way of stating Christian belief, and it reflects an improper understanding of the Christian world view.
 
The Hebrew God has been revealed in nature.

Put it this way, Back 2000 years ago a man roamed this earth by the name of Yehushua... and he claimed to be God.

The Bible is a historical document, and the one of which we have most authentic copies. Other sources outside of the Bible attest to this.

When you say nature do you simply mean, the oceans, the trees, the quantum level, the stars.
For if this is all you mean you must be willing to give up the view altogether. For that is only one part of life.

I see history as the study of time. Through our study we learned that Jesus did exist. Now you can take that and deal with it yourself.

But to say no one thing that has naturally occurred can be use has evidence toward the Hebrew God think again.


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Deavonreye I have a question,

why do you not believe in God?
 
Eventide said:
Well then maybe you're perfect, have no sin, need no salvation.. etc..



Then maybe you're beyond convincing or convicting for some reason.. there comes a time when the Lord doesn't bother calling anymore, and then even God will send strong delusion to those who reject the love of the truth.
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You got that out of what I said? Wow, okay.

For you and others who wondered about my post, . . .

You seem to think that because I don't "believe what you're saying, like Chick Tracts show happening, . . . I'm evil". You may choose to believe that, . . . but you would be wrong. Life isn't a Chick Tract. What you see as "evidence" is based upon your narrow world view that is rooted in your religious beliefs.

No, I am not perfect, nor am I "sinless". However, even when I was a devout christian, I never felt anything other than myself, unless I was taken in by what the crowd was doing. If your god has given up on me, then I would have to say that he sure is heck didn't try very hard. . . . . and if he is NOW giving me a "false truth", then he is guilty of my "sin", because it would be HIS actions through me.
 
Oats said:
The Hebrew God has been revealed in nature.

Put it this way, Back 2000 years ago a man roamed this earth by the name of Yehushua... and he claimed to be God.

The Bible is a historical document, and the one of which we have most authentic copies. Other sources outside of the Bible attest to this.

When you say nature do you simply mean, the oceans, the trees, the quantum level, the stars.
For if this is all you mean you must be willing to give up the view altogether. For that is only one part of life.

I see history as the study of time. Through our study we learned that Jesus did exist. Now you can take that and deal with it yourself.

But to say no one thing that has naturally occurred can be use has evidence toward the Hebrew God think again.


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Deavonreye I have a question,

why do you not believe in God?
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I won't ever state that "there is no god". I have no idea. I'm must saying that I have not experienced anything [personally] that makes me be drawn to it. I tried for nearly 30 years and the "emptiness of faith" was ONE of the reasons I had to come to the realization that I never was "saved".

Then, in my years of searching, I came across evidences that I found to be more logical. . . . and information that I had never been exposed to that confirmed my suspicions. My decision had absolutely nothing to do with "disobedience" or "rebellion".
 
Deavonreye said:
I won't ever state that "there is no god". I have no idea. I'm must saying that I have not experienced anything [personally] that makes me be drawn to it. I tried for nearly 30 years and the "emptiness of faith" was ONE of the reasons I had to come to the realization that I never was "saved".

Then, in my years of searching, I came across evidences that I found to be more logical. . . . and information that I had never been exposed to that confirmed my suspicions. My decision had absolutely nothing to do with "disobedience" or "rebellion".
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does not the evidence for Jesus outweight the evidence for athiesm
 
Deavonreye said:
You got that out of what I said? Wow, okay.

For you and others who wondered about my post, . . .

You seem to think that because I don't "believe what you're saying, like Chick Tracts show happening, . . . I'm evil". You may choose to believe that, . . . but you would be wrong. Life isn't a Chick Tract. What you see as "evidence" is based upon your narrow world view that is rooted in your religious beliefs.
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Wow, you got that out of what I said..?

No, I am not perfect, nor am I "sinless".
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How do you know that ?

However, even when I was a devout christian, I never felt anything other than myself, unless I was taken in by what the crowd was doing.
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May I ask what denomination you were... because frankly, there are many in Christendom who talk the talk but do not walk the walk..

If your god has given up on me, then I would have to say that he sure is heck didn't try very hard. . . . . and if he is NOW giving me a "false truth", then he is guilty of my "sin", because it would be HIS actions through me.
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God didn't give up on any of us.. He died for our sins according to the scriptures long before you and I came along.
 
Eventide said:
Wow, you got that out of what I said..?

How do you know that ?

May I ask what denomination you were... because frankly, there are many in Christendom who talk the talk but do not walk the walk..

God didn't give up on any of us.. He died for our sins according to the scriptures long before you and I came along.
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What I mean is that people who are strongly planted in a faith seem to think that it is SOOOO true that "surely anyone would see that it is and then would get saved due to the undeniable pull of it" [like Chick Tracts]. Then, when people don't reply with "Oh, I didn't know that. What a wonderful gift for me!", then it is concluded that they are "rebellious, mindly disobedient, or have been given over to god's delusion to believe a lie."

People aren't stupid. If something [some sort of evidence] is truly compelling, they will be drawn to it. As I stated to Oats's question, there isn't much either way in terms of "evidence".

As for what denomination I was, . . . . Assemblies of God. To see what they believe, you can go to their webpage and view the 16 fundamental truths of the AG.
 
Oats said:
are you a agnostic Hindu/Buddhist



sorry bout that


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very little point to argue with agnosticism

you'll have to take the first steps
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I'm currently not anything at the moment. I'm looking for what's real and am determined to find it. :thumbsup
 
Deavonreye said:
However, even when I was a devout christian, I never felt anything other than myself, unless I was taken in by what the crowd was doing.
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I have challenged you on this before, and I do not believe you have really dealt with that challenge.

I politely suggest that you should not assume that "feeling" the presence of God is the only valid "metric" for determining the reality of God. I have argued, I believe, that another way to become convinced of the reality of God is to understand and appreciate the sweeping sophistication of the Biblical narrative. In short, to the extent that the narrative offers a compelling "account" of the human condition, that narrative gains authority.

I politely suggest you are responding to the wrong argument: you hear Christians speak of "experience of God". You have tried seeking that experience and have found nothing. Fair enough - I have great sympathy for this and would say the same is true for me. But you need to acknowledge the possibility that there are other "modes" by which one can become convinced of the truth of the Christian gospel.
 
Drew said:
I have challenged you on this before, and I do not believe you have really dealt with that challenge.

I politely suggest that you should not assume that "feeling" the presence of God is the only valid "metric" for determining the reality of God. I have argued, I believe, that another way to become convinced of the reality of God is to understand and appreciate the sweeping sophistication of the Biblical narrative. In short, to the extent that the narrative offers a compelling "account" of the human condition, that narrative gains authority.

I politely suggest you are responding to the wrong argument: you hear Christians speak of "experience of God". You have tried seeking that experience and have found nothing. Fair enough - I have great sympathy for this and would say the same is true for me. But you need to acknowledge the possibility that there are other "modes" by which one can become convinced of the truth of the Christian gospel.
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Yes, Drew, I have heard [or rather, read] you say this and understand what you are saying. However, for me, I don't see [even] a "sophisticated narrative" in the bible, and even if I did, it wouldn't be compelling evidence of a specific deity. Just a "good story". There have been many "good stories" from other religions as well. The reason why christianity was developed so much, and gained in popularity, is because it was adopted by people in power and the use of that power to promote it [ie. inquisition].

Having said that, in order for me to be convinced, it will take something far beyond a story and those who believe it [even to martyrdom]. If it claims "the supernatural", then it must prove it to me, or else it will be placed in the same catagory as other myths.
 
The Lord speaks to us, not with words, but with thoughts. He fixes our problems and takes care of us, when we allow him to.

This is how we know he is real.
 
What if he DOESN'T fix the problem that we allow him to, but instead seems like he had absolutely no control over the situation?

In what way can you KNOW that the thoughts you are having are yours or some god input?
 
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