How do you know God is real?

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

What if he DOESN'T fix the problem that we allow him to, but instead seems like he had absolutely no control over the situation?

In what way can you KNOW that the thoughts you are having are yours or some god input?

The honest truth is that we cannot know. The best we can do is have faith based on the evidence we are given, which if we are honest we must admit is only a partial picture.

 

[Deavonreye]

The honest truth is that we cannot know. The best we can do is have faith based on the evidence we are given, which if we are honest we must admit is only a partial picture.

I understand your point. I have nothing against those who hold to this as their argument for god. Unfortunately, I do require more, . . . and though I may never find what will be compelling for me, I do plan on continuing to search for it.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

I understand your point. I have nothing against those who hold to this as their argument for god. Unfortunately, I do require more, . . . and though I may never find what will be compelling for me, I do plan on continuing to search for it.

D,

I have this theory about God and our universe based in great part on the overall narrative of scripture. See, I believe that God, or as I like to say, the 1st Cause didn't start His creative actions with man's world. The scriptures seem to tell us that there were spirit beings, a spirit world, and you know, angels if you will before 7 day birthing. We are told that some of those spirit beings sinned and I believe that our universe may well have been created at least in part as a mechanism to deal with things that transpired beyond/before us. One could actually make a pretty sound case that Jesus, rather than being The Original Creator was the reason and purpose for creation in the first place. After all according to the Bible in the age of ages Jesus is King of Kings with all things under Him accept for God Himself whom Jesus is under.

Below are quotes from others on this same issue.

The Place of Humanity in God's Purpose, J.H.Essex, pg 45

"The troubles of the universe originated among the celestials, among the angels, long before man was created. Humanity was an entirely separate creation, made in the image and likeness of God to be the form in which God's own Son could come to give up His life for the universe, and remedy what had gone wrong in that higher sphere.

"Thus humanity is made the vehicle through which the reconciling of the universe is to be effected, even though all efforts of humanity itself are in vain and come to nothing, and it is left to God to provide, in the person of His Son, the one effectual means by which this reconciliation is to be accomplished."

Think about it logically. Do you honesty believe sin began in Eden with Adam and Eve? I think it is pretty safe to say that sin began in the ranks of the celestial beings perhaps even before man was created. Mankind's creation could very well be a part of a larger plan to not just redeem mankind, but also those of the celestial realm that fell into sin (rebellion). After all, God is not just the God of man, He is the God of ALL. We cannot make too many assumptions about the heavenly realm and what has transpired there because we simply are not provided with that info, but to think that that realm is somehow less consequential in the overall plan of God is very presumptious.

We have a rendency to make the devil into something the scriptures do not, and that is an adversary of God who actually thinks himself to be on the level of God. That is just no so according to the scriptures. The devil and the devils (demons) always seem to recognize their place beneath God. The demons even aknowledged Jesus as God's Son and asked that He not torture them before the time. They even believe and tremble! The Devil approached God about Job with the Sons of God and in no way showed a disdain or animosity towards the Father, but rather towards the Image of God, MAN.

 

[Sam21]

What if he DOESN'T fix the problem that we allow him to, but instead seems like he had absolutely no control over the situation?

In what way can you KNOW that the thoughts you are having are yours or some god input?

The mystery of our world, why the Creator does not just stand up and prove who He is. The bible says that He will do that at the end of this age, but for now God is the invisible God who must be accepted by faith. Who knows why God does what He does, I don't, when I was almost 14 years of age I simply bowed by head and asked God what He wanted me to do,I was immediately engulfed in intense love and heard a voice speaking very clearly to my mind,He was saying,"you must accept My Son as your Savior". He went on to explain that in my present condition that I was headed for hell and that I needed to commit my life totally to God and ask Jesus to be my Savior. This took a while for me to decide but after I did the next morning I was leaving the house when He begin to speak from my abdomen area and He was saying over and over,"you are My child and I love you". At the time I did not even know the bible and was not raised in a christian home. Also, the experience of love was out of this world, at the mention of the name of Jesus I would light up like a light bulb.
Why did God actually talk to me? I do not really know but it obviously does not make me any more of a christian than someone who has never heard God actually speak to them.

 

[Deavonreye]

D,

I have this theory about God and our universe based in great part on the overall narrative of scripture. See, I believe that God, or as I like to say, the 1st Cause didn't start His creative actions with man's world. The scriptures seem to tell us that there were spirit beings, a spirit world, and you know, angels if you will before 7 day birthing. We are told that some of those spirit beings sinned and I believe that our universe may well have been created at least in part as a mechanism to deal with things that transpired beyond/before us. One could actually make a pretty sound case that Jesus, rather than being The Original Creator was the reason and purpose for creation in the first place. After all according to the Bible in the age of ages Jesus is King of Kings with all things under Him accept for God Himself whom Jesus is under.

An interesting phylosophy. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Deavonreye]

The mystery of our world, why the Creator does not just stand up and prove who He is. The bible says that He will do that at the end of this age, but for now God is the invisible God who must be accepted by faith. . . . "you must accept My Son as your Savior". . . He went on to explain that in my present condition that I was headed for hell . . .

While I appreciate your words here, I don't see them as you did.

Yes, . . . IF the christian god is real and chooses to remain invisible and unheard, . . . and IF "faith" is all there is to go on, then I will remain "unsaved" because "faith" isn't good enough. "Faith" is found in WAY too many other religious beliefs to be useful in knowing which one is actually true. This is my sincere opinion and if I WERE to "just accept Jesus by faith", it would not be a truth. My mind isn't made that way.

I can't really go into the "was headed for hell..." thing because my opinion of that would probably go against this board's ToS.

 

[WIP]

faith based on the evidence we are given,

Just have faith. No evidence required.

 

[Deavonreye]

Sorry, WIP, . . . just can't do that.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Sorry, WIP, . . . just can't do that.

It was hard for me, at 17 - to do that. I had to think and think about it.

I felt drawn, and "tried it". It was probably two years before most of my doubts faded. Now, after all these years, I trust Him and know He exists.

But that does not change the fact that the pain, sadness and evil in this life distress me. "The Shack" (the book) helped me quite a bit, even with it's defective and weird theology. But then, when I think about it, all the bad times of my life have actually added to my faith - after, of course, I often felt my faith challenged as I went thru those times.

 

[WIP]

I think the evidence is all around us all the time but we reject it for what it is. We are unwilling to believe simply on the basis of faith but that is what God calls us to do.

 

[Deavonreye]

I think the evidence is all around us all the time but we reject it for what it is. We are unwilling to believe simply on the basis of faith but that is what God calls us to do.

Evidence is most definitely all around us, . . . but it doesn't point to a god, . . . and most definitely not a specific god, such as Yahweh.

 

[darrell]

Just have faith. No evidence required.

I disagree - my faith is based on evidence.

Evidence is most definitely all around us, . . . but it doesn't point to a god, . . . and most definitely not a specific god, such as Yahweh.

Many people - living and dead - disagree with you Deavon. Interesting how different people can examine the same evidence and arrive at different conclusions.

 

[Deavonreye]

I disagree - my faith is based on evidence.

Many people - living and dead - disagree with you Deavon. Interesting how different people can examine the same evidence and arrive at different conclusions.

You are correct. Many people DO arrive at differing conclusions.

 

[Medievalarmy]

Well, the unbelievers can even know some aspects of God way down deep in their hearts, but not just as much as we (Christians) do.

 

[WIP]

I disagree - my faith is based on evidence.

I'm confused. How can you disagree with me about what I believe? It's what I believe plain and simple. I'm able to identify the evidence I see around me because of my faith, not the other way around.

 

[Jake]

The only way a person will every know for sure if God exists is if God gives that person a revelation of Himself.

God is the only one who gives us faith and who gives revelation. For us, as humans, to bring evidence to the table of His existance is futile, w/out God revealing Himself to the unbeliever.

For some reason, God has chosen to blind these unbelievers, and until God lifts the blinders, they will continue being blind.

 

[Alabaster]

The only way a person will every know for sure if God exists is if God gives that person a revelation of Himself.

God is the only one who gives us faith and who gives revelation. For us, as humans, to bring evidence to the table of His existance is futile, w/out God revealing Himself to the unbeliever.

For some reason, God has chosen to blind these unbelievers, and until God lifts the blinders, they will continue being blind.

This is unquestionable truth.

 

[Deavonreye]

The only way a person will every know for sure if God exists is if God gives that person a revelation of Himself.

God is the only one who gives us faith and who gives revelation. For us, as humans, to bring evidence to the table of His existance is futile, w/out God revealing Himself to the unbeliever.

For some reason, God has chosen to blind these unbelievers, and until God lifts the blinders, they will continue being blind.

Congnative dissonance. Thinking that something doesn't seem right, . . . thus something else MUST be the case "god choosing to blind people from his evidence".

 

[WIP]

I don't know if I believe that God chooses to blind some and not others. That would pretty much defeat the purpose of giving us a free will. I think it's the other way around, that we reject Him. "Those with ears, let them hear." "Those with eyes, let them see."

 

[Deavonreye]

I don't know if I believe that God chooses to blind some and not others. That would pretty much defeat the purpose of giving us a free will. I think it's the other way around, that we reject Him. "Those with ears, let them hear." "Those with eyes, let them see."

No, I can't imagine that any GOOD deity would. However, . . . let's take a look a the quote you posted: "Those with ears, let them hear." "Those with eyes, let them see." I find it interesting that physical ears and eyes cannot detect this god, yet they are somehow still required to "detect god". It is almost comical.

I don't mean to be obstinent. . . . just calling it like I see it [no pun intended].