-How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sabbath-

[smaller]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

Sabbath keepers often use their obedience to the Sabbath law as the measure of not only the quality of their relationship with God, but whether they or anybody else even has that relationship to begin with. That is the terrible deceit of external 'religion'. A relationship with God is measured by ones character, not what day they worship God on, or how they do that. The fallout of all this is legalistic religion is brutal, harsh, even murderous. Like the Jews, when the externals get mistakenly elevated above character, you have people actually violating God's requirements not keeping them as they are so sure they are doing.

Ya think? Uh, yeah. The statement above has been a legitimate complaint against Christianity for quite some time.

But then again, hardliners are 'afraid' that by letting go of their doctrinal reins they might actually be wrong. Again, I can only observe the fact that all believers are by nature, WRONG.

It's only trying to avoid the factual conclusion of being WRONG that we all got in trouble to begin with.

s

 

[Joe Domingo]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

Sabbath keepers often use their obedience to the Sabbath law as the measure of not only the quality of their relationship with God, but whether they or anybody else even has that relationship to begin with. That is the terrible deceit of external 'religion'. A relationship with God is measured by ones character, not what day they worship God on, or how they do that. The fallout of all this is legalistic religion is brutal, harsh, even murderous. Like the Jews, when the externals get mistakenly elevated above character, you have people actually violating God's requirements not keeping them as they are so sure they are doing.

Ya think? Uh, yeah. The statement above has been a legitimate complaint against Christianity for quite some time.

But then again, hardliners are 'afraid' that by letting go of their doctrinal reins they might actually be wrong. Again, I can only observe the fact that all believers are by nature, WRONG.

It's only trying to avoid the factual conclusion of being WRONG that we all got in trouble to begin with.

s

You can't stereotype everyone who observes the Sabbath with your preconceived notions based on past experiences.

If you met me in real life and see how I live you would take back any remarks you've made along those lines. In fact, you would say to yourself, how is this guy a hardline Sabbath keeper.

I keep the Sabbath, but I'm not perfect. Oh I break it many times but I just try not to, so I can enjoy it better. The Sabbath was made for man. I don't serve the Sabbath, it serves me. It benefits me. I don't have to enjoy its benefits anymore than filing for unemployment when I lose a job.

The Sabbath is a divine Benefit. Take it or leave.

 

[smaller]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

The Sabbath is a divine Benefit. Take it or leave.

I'd suggest a closer read of what was said.

The IF/THEN scenario is generally this from both Jethro and myself:

IF Saturday Sabbatarians are forced to conclude that other believers who do not do as 'they do' are greater sinners then they are, THEN the Saturday Sabbatarians are practicing self deception over that matter.

Please feel free to engage in factual dialog.

s

 

[Joe Domingo]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

The Sabbath is a divine Benefit. Take it or leave.

I'd suggest a closer read of what was said.

The IF/THEN scenario is generally this from both Jethro and myself:

IF Saturday Sabbatarians are forced to conclude that other believers who do not do as 'they do' are greater sinners then they are, THEN the Saturday Sabbatarians are practicing self deception over that matter.

Please feel free to engage in factual dialog.

s

Ok once again this does not apply to me. I don't think I'm better than anybody. I'm a sinner in need of the shed blood of Christ. Without him I am lost Sabbath or no Sabbath.

 

[Elijah674]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

OK Joe and [ALL] else. Do you know what a PRESUMPTUS sin is???

--Elijah

PS:
[29] Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
[30] But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
[31] Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

 

[smaller]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

Ok once again this does not apply to me. I don't think I'm better than anybody. I'm a sinner in need of the shed blood of Christ. Without him I am lost Sabbath or no Sabbath.

Well, BRILLIANT!

You see it's not difficult to come to a TRUTHFUL conclusion is it Joe?

And just so you know, I AGREE!

How crazy is that?

lol

s

 

[Joe Domingo]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

Ok once again this does not apply to me. I don't think I'm better than anybody. I'm a sinner in need of the shed blood of Christ. Without him I am lost Sabbath or no Sabbath.

Well, BRILLIANT!

You see it's not difficult to come to a TRUTHFUL conclusion is it Joe?

And just so you know, I AGREE!

How crazy is that?

lol

s

That's crazy! lol

 

[smaller]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

That's crazy! lol

and also for the record Joe, I really do delight in truthful dialog with believers. That's part of why I do it.

s

 

[Joe Domingo]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

That's crazy! lol

and also for the record Joe, I really do delight in truthful dialog with believers. That's part of why I do it.

s

Cool.

And for the record on my part. I do not condemn anyone who does not observe the Sabbath.

But I don think that such person's do them selves a disservice, because of what Jesus said, Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;

This is my official position - That persons who teach against the Sabbath will be called the Least in the Kingdom. That is why I do not condemn anyone not observing Shabbat. They are still entering the Kingdom.

Notice there are two requirements to be met for this reward. You must break them and teach men to do them. Oh I have my turn breaking them sometimes but I don't teach men to do so. I teach the opposite, as is evidenced on several thread in this forum.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

Perhaps the reason why Jesus said not one jot or title will pass from the Law till all be fulfilled.

Since much more than just a jot or a tittle has in fact passed from the law (animal sacrifice for sin) it's only logical and honest to conclude that the "until all is accomplished" has occurred.

'Not one jot or tittle passing from the law' is not the defense for continued ceremonial law keeping that law keeping doctrine says it is. The fulfillment Jesus spoke of that had to happen before anything could pass from the law has occurred as evidenced by the passing of the law regarding animal sacrifice for sin and the Festivals established for doing that. I honestly don't see how it's possible to argue the point.

Seems to me that he was ahead of us on this one. We can't say that he fulfilled it and did away with it because he also said Heaven and Earth will pass away before all is fulfilled. We are still on Earth.

No. What he said was between the time he was speaking and the passing of heaven and earth (which will know will happen at the end of the age) nothing would pass from the law until the fulfillment happened. And we know that the fulfillment (that allows the passing of something out of the law before the new heaven and new earth) has happened because we know from our own Bibles that things have passed from the law and are no longer required to be done (sacrifice for sin and the Days for doing that). Jesus 'fulfilled' and satisfied God's requirements for those things one time for all time. That's why they have in effect 'passed' from the law.

 

[John 8:32]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

No. What he said was between the time he was speaking and the passing of heaven and earth (which will know will happen at the end of the age) nothing would pass from the law until the fulfillment happened. And we know that the fulfillment (that allows the passing of something out of the law before the new heaven and new earth) has happened because we know from our own Bibles that things have passed from the law and are no longer required to be done (sacrifice for sin and the Days for doing that). Jesus 'fulfilled' and satisfied God's requirements for those things one time for all time. That's why they have in effect 'passed' from the law.

I respect much of what you say Jethro, but this is just not true. Are you saying that Christ's sacrifice is no longer applied when we sin?

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ is the propitiation for our sins. His sacrifice, offered once, is applied each time we sin, else the sin is not expunged...

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

When? Once at conversion? No, in time of need. How often do you need the sacrifice of Christ for the forgiveness of sin? I will be honest, I need it regularly. We all sin far to often...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Paul recognized this and knew the remedy...

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Yes, Christ sacrificed once for all, but it is fulfilled each time we need to apply it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

No. What he said was between the time he was speaking and the passing of heaven and earth (which will know will happen at the end of the age) nothing would pass from the law until the fulfillment happened. And we know that the fulfillment (that allows the passing of something out of the law before the new heaven and new earth) has happened because we know from our own Bibles that things have passed from the law and are no longer required to be done (sacrifice for sin and the Days for doing that). Jesus 'fulfilled' and satisfied God's requirements for those things one time for all time. That's why they have in effect 'passed' from the law.

I respect much of what you say Jethro, but this is just not true. Are you saying that Christ's sacrifice is no longer applied when we sin?

No. I'm not saying that at all.

I used to be careful to say animal sacrifice for sin has passed away. I guess I better get back in the habit of doing that. Sorry for the confusion.

Christ's sacrifice fulfills the law's requirements for sacrifice for sin, not abolishs them. And since they are fulfilled, they have in effect passed away. When fulfillment occurs a law can be laid aside. Not abolished, just not needed anymore.

Christ is the propitiation for our sins. His sacrifice, offered once, is applied each time we sin, else the sin is not expunged...

I agree.

If we keep believing and trusting in Christ's sacrifice it will keep ministering on our behalf before God to keep us legally perfect and guilt free before God.

 

[Elijah674]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

So Numbers 15:27-35 is a done deal, when one is openly a sinner. (but just love him)

Numbers 15
[27] And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.
[28] And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
[29] Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
[30] But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

[31] Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; [[his iniquity shall be upon him]].
[32] And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
[33] And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
[34] And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
[35] And the [[LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.]]

And this is the same Christ God as seen in Acts 7:38. [With Love] But who does He love? Check Lev. 16:8-26

[8] And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
[9] And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
[10] But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
[11] And Aaron shall bring the bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and shall make an atonement for himself, and for his house, and shall kill the bullock of the sin offering which is for himself:
[12] And he shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from off the altar before the LORD, and his hands full of sweet incense beaten small, and bring it within the vail:
[13] And he shall put the incense upon the fire before the LORD, that the cloud of the incense may cover the mercy seat that is upon the testimony, that he die not:
[14] And he shall take of the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it with his finger upon the mercy seat eastward; and before the mercy seat shall he sprinkle of the blood with his finger seven times.
[15] Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:
[16] And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.

It kind of reminds me of a James 1:15 fatal sin! Lets just say that the 'sinner' came to offer the Lamb at the court and then told the Lord that this is good enough (Rom. 8:1) for this is all that is required! [FINISHED] No more need of a verse 14 Lord!

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

Let get this correct. What is being said is that God loved His Son so much that He gave Him to the world that they would be saved? Even the ones who blaspheme Him??? One king even made a statement that if these ones would have their one eye put out all would be well?

This is the Fathers LOVE? Come on get real! The next thing that we will be told by you is that all including EVERY ONE will be saved? You need to get the LORDS ACT together!

And why not with this kind of LOVE?? No, Christ gave His life so that any + ALL could freely choose life IF they would!

--Elijah

 

[John 8:32]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

No. What he said was between the time he was speaking and the passing of heaven and earth (which will know will happen at the end of the age) nothing would pass from the law until the fulfillment happened. And we know that the fulfillment (that allows the passing of something out of the law before the new heaven and new earth) has happened because we know from our own Bibles that things have passed from the law and are no longer required to be done (sacrifice for sin and the Days for doing that). Jesus 'fulfilled' and satisfied God's requirements for those things one time for all time. That's why they have in effect 'passed' from the law.

I respect much of what you say Jethro, but this is just not true. Are you saying that Christ's sacrifice is no longer applied when we sin?

No. I'm not saying that at all.

I used to be careful to say animal sacrifice for sin has passed away. I guess I better get back in the habit of doing that. Sorry for the confusion.

Christ's sacrifice fulfills the law's requirements for sacrifice for sin, not abolishs them. And since they are fulfilled, they have in effect passed away. When fulfillment occurs a law can be laid aside. Not abolished, just not needed anymore.

Christ is the propitiation for our sins. His sacrifice, offered once, is applied each time we sin, else the sin is not expunged...

I agree.

If we keep believing and trusting in Christ's sacrifice it will keep ministering on our behalf before God to keep us legally perfect and guilt free before God.

OK, I see, we are simply discussing semantics here. Sorry, carry on.

 

[smaller]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

So Numbers 15:27-35 is a done deal, when one is openly a sinner. (but just love him)

It kind of reminds me of a James 1:15 fatal sin! Lets just say that the 'sinner' came to offer the Lamb at the court and then told the Lord that this is good enough (Rom. 8:1) for this is all that is required! [FINISHED] No more need of a verse 14 Lord!

--Elijah

Any reader may think it is only they or their sect's personal entirely subjective reflections of 'what they read' which constitutes matters of scripture.

Obviously that is not the case. Many other believers will read the same identical text and in groups come to entirely different conclusions.

Romans 13:8-10 encompasses every Law for example. Do we see 'show up in a sect's building on Saturday' there? Uh, no.

Romans 14 is extremely liberal when it comes to believers 'beliefs' with regards to one day above another OR NOT. And matters of meat. Two of your sects favorites.

The Good News is that there are alternatives readily and openly available to read, comprehend and JUSTIFY.

In the final analysis of any reader, what they are, in reality, encountering in the text is their own personal subjective reflections of the text and in ALL cases nothing more than that.

The agreements that believers have in general are entirely broad based and certainly far from coherent and cohesive.

Engaging scripture is not much different than looking in the mirror. What any person is going to see amounts largely to their own internal subjective picture.

There are also many virtual certainties to also observe:

No person has a Perfect Reflection of the text or in actions.

All believers continue to be sinning sinners regardless of their supposed obedience.

So, let's face it. Christianity really does have issues. And we're all kind of like our own government here in the U.S. We really don't care to stand up and face our 'internal problems.' IN fact that would be the very last thing I'd expect.

s

 

[Elijah674]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

So Numbers 15:27-35 is a done deal, when one is openly a sinner. (but just love him)

It kind of reminds me of a James 1:15 fatal sin! Lets just say that the 'sinner' came to offer the Lamb at the court and then told the Lord that this is good enough (Rom. 8:1) for this is all that is required! [FINISHED] No more need of a verse 14 Lord!

--Elijah

Any reader may think it is only they or their sect's personal entirely subjective reflections of 'what they read' which constitutes matters of scripture.

Obviously that is not the case. Many other believers will read the same identical text and in groups come to entirely different conclusions.

Romans 13:8-10 encompasses every Law for example. Do we see 'show up in a sect's building on Saturday' there? Uh, no.

Romans 14 is extremely liberal when it comes to believers 'beliefs' with regards to one day above another OR NOT. And matters of meat. Two of your sects favorites.

The Good News is that there are alternatives readily and openly available to read, comprehend and JUSTIFY.

In the final analysis of any reader, what they are, in reality, encountering in the text is their own personal subjective reflections of the text and in ALL cases nothing more than that.

The agreements that believers have in general are entirely broad based and certainly far from coherent and cohesive.

Engaging scripture is not much different than looking in the mirror. What any person is going to see amounts largely to their own internal subjective picture.

There are also many virtual certainties to also observe:

No person has a Perfect Reflection of the text or in actions.

All believers continue to be sinning sinners regardless of their supposed obedience.

So, let's face it. Christianity really does have issues. And we're all kind of like our own government here in the U.S. We really don't care to stand up and face our 'internal problems.' IN fact that would be the very last thing I'd expect.

s

That is not what the Word says. Eph. 4:5 says one faith, not one having faith.
And for all the rest? They are found in Rev. as ALL daughters of the great [world wide] whore.
As Jesus stated in Matt. 6:24...

[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

--Elijah

 

[smaller]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

That is not what the Word says.

You did just read what I posted, right? What the Word says is largely entirely subjective in the eyes of the readers. This is just a fact, openly seen and observed. I even cited you how many of us who believe can read the text and come to an entirely different conclusion than what your sect arrived at regarding the Saturday Sabbath and our sight is just as much entirely justified as your sect's sights if not far more so.

Eph. 4:5 says one faith, not one having faith.

And in that statement you read it as 'only as I think?' Well, glad to say, "I don't think so."

The obvious problem is that exactly no one sees PERFECTLY and that's all there is to the subject. So before I pitch my 'eternal tent' on some 'subjective reader' or 'subjective sect' I might want to see the reality that none of such have A PERFECT SIGHT.

Therefore by simple logic there is no 'secure tent' to pitch in that direction. And in fact one might be quite entirely foolish to make such a conclusion. That either their sights or those of their sects are PERFECT SIGHTs and ACTIONs because reality dictates there are no such animals.

And for all the rest? They are found in Rev. as ALL daughters of the great [world wide] whore.

Again, that is merely a 'pet reflection' of your sect. Many can read the same attempted justifications your sect employs and see from the same text that they are not even close to justifiable. And because it is a subjective 'pet reflection' I personally could not engage such blindness or I'd just be lying to myself.

As Jesus stated in Matt. 6:24...

[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

--Elijah

Which same automatically means in your mind that everything you see, say and do or that of your sect is entirely correct and perfect?

Uh, no chance. Not even a remote chance.

s

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

So Numbers 15:27-35 is a done deal, when one is openly a sinner. (but just love him)

Numbers 15
[27] And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.
[28] And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
[29] Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
[30] But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

[31] Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; [[his iniquity shall be upon him]].
[32] And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
[33] And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
[34] And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
[35] And the [[LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.]]

And this is the same Christ God as seen in Acts 7:38. [With Love] But who does He love? Check Lev. 16:8-26

[8] And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
[9] And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
[10] But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
[11] And Aaron shall bring the bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and shall make an atonement for himself, and for his house, and shall kill the bullock of the sin offering which is for himself:
[12] And he shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from off the altar before the LORD, and his hands full of sweet incense beaten small, and bring it within the vail:
[13] And he shall put the incense upon the fire before the LORD, that the cloud of the incense may cover the mercy seat that is upon the testimony, that he die not:
[14] And he shall take of the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it with his finger upon the mercy seat eastward; and before the mercy seat shall he sprinkle of the blood with his finger seven times.
[15] Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:
[16] And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.

It kind of reminds me of a James 1:15 fatal sin! Lets just say that the 'sinner' came to offer the Lamb at the court and then told the Lord that this is good enough (Rom. 8:1) for this is all that is required! [FINISHED] No more need of a verse 14 Lord!

--Elijah

Not keeping a literal Sabbath is not a damnable offense anymore that this should apply in some way.

We do not maintain covenant with God anymore through the Mosaic covenant's worship stipulations. We are now in covenant with God through the NEW Covenant, Jesus Christ. That being true, there is no more need for the worship procedures, and the timetables to perform them in, to maintain covenant with God.

Christ's work on the cross forever and perfectly does what the ceremonial stipulations sought to do but could not do for fallen man. That being true, they have been laid aside as unneeded and obsolete for those who have been brought near to God through the new way of faith in Jesus Christ.

A useful analogy is not having to use grandpa's '55 Buick to go to work anymore because you have a 2013 Chevy to do that for you now. It's not that grandpa's Buick has been destroyed and abolished. It's just not needed anymore. You have a better way to do what the old way used to do for you. Now it sits obsolete and unneeded next to the hen house and makes for interesting discussion about the way things used to be.

 

[John 8:32]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

So Numbers 15:27-35 is a done deal, when one is openly a sinner. (but just love him)

Numbers 15
[27] And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.
[28] And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
[29] Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
[30] But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

[31] Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; [[his iniquity shall be upon him]].
[32] And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
[33] And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
[34] And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
[35] And the [[LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.]]

And this is the same Christ God as seen in Acts 7:38. [With Love] But who does He love? Check Lev. 16:8-26

[8] And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
[9] And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
[10] But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
[11] And Aaron shall bring the bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and shall make an atonement for himself, and for his house, and shall kill the bullock of the sin offering which is for himself:
[12] And he shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from off the altar before the LORD, and his hands full of sweet incense beaten small, and bring it within the vail:
[13] And he shall put the incense upon the fire before the LORD, that the cloud of the incense may cover the mercy seat that is upon the testimony, that he die not:
[14] And he shall take of the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it with his finger upon the mercy seat eastward; and before the mercy seat shall he sprinkle of the blood with his finger seven times.
[15] Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:
[16] And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.

It kind of reminds me of a James 1:15 fatal sin! Lets just say that the 'sinner' came to offer the Lamb at the court and then told the Lord that this is good enough (Rom. 8:1) for this is all that is required! [FINISHED] No more need of a verse 14 Lord!

--Elijah

Not keeping a literal Sabbath is not a damnable offense anymore that this should apply in some way.

We do not maintain covenant with God anymore through the Mosaic covenant's worship stipulations. We are now in covenant with God through the NEW Covenant, Jesus Christ. That being true, there is no more need for the worship procedures, and the timetables to perform them in, to maintain covenant with God.

Christ's work on the cross forever and perfectly does what the ceremonial stipulations sought to do but could not do for fallen man. That being true, they have been laid aside as unneeded and obsolete for those who have been brought near to God through the new way of faith in Jesus Christ.

A useful analogy is not having to use grandpa's '55 Buick to go to work anymore because you have a 2013 Chevy to do that for you now. It's not that grandpa's Buick has been destroyed and abolished. It's just not needed anymore. You have a better way to do what the old way used to do for you. Now it sits obsolete and unneeded next to the hen house and makes for interesting discussion about the way things used to be.

I do have to disagree here. Does murdering separate one from God? Idolatry? How about habitual liars? Are they welcomed into the Kingdom?

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Habitually and wilfully disobeying any one of the Ten Commandments will damn (condemn to destruction) one who will not repent...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?