-How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sabbath-

[Elijah674]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

Keeping the sabbath is a very significant command,I personally do not take it lightly though I cannot keep it perfectly...

Which is fine. And I'm aware of the unfair attacks that people launch on law keepers about perfection. But by the same token, if a person is going to say Sabbath keeping or any other literal worship command is on par with 'do not murder', or 'do not steal', not for the purpose of salvation, but as the obligatory and expected obedience of the faith that saves, then I would expect that person to be striving very diligently to keep it perfectly, just as we are expected to do in regard to what they say is equally important-- that is, 'do not murder', 'do not covet', etc.

Understand the point?


The literal Sabbath is/was an illustration of a spiritual truth and reality, just as the other literal Mosaic worship requirements were. And--like animal sacrifice for sin--once a person understands the reality the shadow represents the literal can be laid aside and cease as an expected and obligatory obedience of saving faith. But until then, the person who can not see that should probably continue to observe the Sabbath, or whatever Mosaic worship requirement they feel must be kept, and do so with the same goal of perfection they know to have in regard to all the other commandments of God, 'do not steal', 'do not lie', etc.

Moses was not thought of at creation when the Eternal Moral became such! Heb. 13:20 "EVERLASTING"! His pen was seen in Deut. 31:9 with offering of sacrifice.
--Elijah

PS: 1 John 2:7 has it rightly stated as an EXTENSION!
[7] Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. ..'

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

Keeping the sabbath is a very significant command,I personally do not take it lightly though I cannot keep it perfectly...

Which is fine. And I'm aware of the unfair attacks that people launch on law keepers about perfection. But by the same token, if a person is going to say Sabbath keeping or any other literal worship command is on par with 'do not murder', or 'do not steal', not for the purpose of salvation, but as the obligatory and expected obedience of the faith that saves, then I would expect that person to be striving very diligently to keep it perfectly, just as we are expected to do in regard to what they say is equally important-- that is, 'do not murder', 'do not covet', etc.

Understand the point?


The literal Sabbath is/was an illustration of a spiritual truth and reality, just as the other literal Mosaic worship requirements were. And--like animal sacrifice for sin--once a person understands the reality the shadow represents the literal can be laid aside and cease as an expected and obligatory obedience of saving faith. But until then, the person who can not see that should probably continue to observe the Sabbath, or whatever Mosaic worship requirement they feel must be kept, and do so with the same goal of perfection they know to have in regard to all the other commandments of God, 'do not steal', 'do not lie', etc.

Moses was not thought of at creation when the Eternal Moral became such! Heb. 13:20 "EVERLASTING"! His pen was seen in Deut. 31:9 with offering of sacrifice. Please do not blaspheme Gods Eternal law!

--Elijah

PS: 1 John 2:7 has it rightly stated as an EXTENSION!
[7] Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. ..'

Sacrifice for sin is from the foundation of the world, too. But you dismiss it on the erroneous thinking that Moses introduced it? Is that what you're doing?

 

[Elijah674]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

Keeping the sabbath is a very significant command,I personally do not take it lightly though I cannot keep it perfectly...

Which is fine. And I'm aware of the unfair attacks that people launch on law keepers about perfection. But by the same token, if a person is going to say Sabbath keeping or any other literal worship command is on par with 'do not murder', or 'do not steal', not for the purpose of salvation, but as the obligatory and expected obedience of the faith that saves, then I would expect that person to be striving very diligently to keep it perfectly, just as we are expected to do in regard to what they say is equally important-- that is, 'do not murder', 'do not covet', etc.

Understand the point?


The literal Sabbath is/was an illustration of a spiritual truth and reality, just as the other literal Mosaic worship requirements were. And--like animal sacrifice for sin--once a person understands the reality the shadow represents the literal can be laid aside and cease as an expected and obligatory obedience of saving faith. But until then, the person who can not see that should probably continue to observe the Sabbath, or whatever Mosaic worship requirement they feel must be kept, and do so with the same goal of perfection they know to have in regard to all the other commandments of God, 'do not steal', 'do not lie', etc.

Moses was not thought of at creation when the Eternal Moral became such! Heb. 13:20 "EVERLASTING"! His pen was seen in Deut. 31:9 with offering of sacrifice. Please do not blaspheme Gods Eternal law!

--Elijah

PS: 1 John 2:7 has it rightly stated as an EXTENSION!
[7] Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. ..'

Sacrifice for sin is from the foundation of the world, too. But you dismiss it on the erroneous thinking that Moses introduced it? Is that what you're doing?

I think that was your thing? (+ 2 Cor. 4:2?)
God gave it verbally to Adam & Eve's two kids! And one DESIRED satan as his 'g'od. (1 John 5:16)

--Elijah

 

[lowrab777]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

Hey call it what you want to brother,
I'll keep the sabbath if I want,... You dont keep it if you dont want,...
Fair enough?.

The literal Sabbath is/was an illustration of a spiritual truth and reality, just as the other literal Mosaic worship requirements were. And--like animal sacrifice for sin--once a person understands the reality the shadow represents the literal can be laid aside and cease as an expected and obligatory obedience of saving faith. But until then, the person who can not see that should probably continue to observe the Sabbath, or whatever Mosaic worship requirement they feel must be kept, and do so with the same goal of perfection they know to have in regard to all the other commandments of God, 'do not steal', 'do not lie', etc.

I'll do my best to serve GOD the way my bible suggests I do,..
This statement goes along way with me
Joh_14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
And this one
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
And this one
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
And this one
Joh_15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Joh_15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
And,.... Of couorse the list goes on and on. The fact is keeping them perfect is impossible that is why we cannot be saved by them. That is why JESUS had to die, never less just because we are unable to perfectly accomplish them does not mean that we should not see and understand there significance/ Why they were there/ What they do/ What they mean/ How sacred they are/ When they changed/ Why they changed/ How they changed / Who changed them /Where do they apply now /How do they apply now / Why do they apply/ Why I should be affraid of them/ Why I should appreciate them????????? and of course the list goes on and on.

I'll keep the sabbath if I want,... You dont keep it if you dont want,...
Fair enough?.
It just really doesnt have be a complex matter.

 

[lowrab777]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

The literal Sabbath is/was an illustration of a spiritual truth and reality, just as the other literal Mosaic worship requirements were. And--like animal sacrifice for sin--once a person understands the reality the shadow represents the literal can be laid aside and cease as an expected and obligatory obedience of saving faith. But until then, the person who can not see that should probably continue to observe the Sabbath, or whatever Mosaic worship requirement they feel must be kept, and do so with the same goal of perfection they know to have in regard to all the other commandments of God, 'do not steal', 'do not lie', etc.

Hey man I really think your missing the point I,ll put it like this

I will keep the sabbath and the holy days because I want to.
You dont have to keep them if you dont want to.
And GOD will be the Judge of both of us.
fair enough?

It really doesnt have to be that complex.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

Moses was not thought of at creation when the Eternal Moral became such! Heb. 13:20 "EVERLASTING"! His pen was seen in Deut. 31:9 with offering of sacrifice. Please do not blaspheme Gods Eternal law!

--Elijah

PS: 1 John 2:7 has it rightly stated as an EXTENSION!
[7] Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. ..'

Sacrifice for sin is from the foundation of the world, too. But you dismiss it on the erroneous thinking that Moses introduced it? Is that what you're doing?

I think that was your thing? (+ 2 Cor. 4:2?)
God gave it verbally to Adam & Eve's two kids! And one DESIRED satan as his 'g'od. (1 John 5:16)

--Elijah

No, That is incorrect. We see it before Adam and Eve had kids.

Christ is the Eternal Covenant. The Lamb "slain from the creation of the world". (Revelation 13:8 NIV).

The literal Mosaic Sabbath is not the eternal covenant, if that's what you were suggesting. :ohmy

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

Hey call it what you want to brother,
I'll keep the sabbath if I want,... You dont keep it if you dont want,...
Fair enough?.

No reason to address this with me. I've been making this point in this thread.

...just because we are unable to perfectly accomplish them does not mean that we should not see and understand there significance/ Why they were there/ What they do/ What they mean/ How sacred they are/ When they changed/ Why they changed/ How they changed / Who changed them /Where do they apply now /How do they apply now / Why do they apply/ Why I should be affraid of them/ Why I should appreciate them????????? and of course the list goes on and on.

I'm not sure you're getting what I was saying. Let me try again...

Some literal Sabbath keepers insist Sabbath keeping is as important to God as keeping commands like 'do not steal' are, yet they have a somewhat flippant attitude about how well they really do obey God's requirements for the Sabbath observance when asked how well they keep it according to how the law says to keep it.

I figure if Sabbath keepers are going to say that we who don't keep Sabbath will perish in the judgment because we did not keep Sabbath (because it's an expected obedience of saving faith like 'do not steal' is, not because it's a work that saves) then they ought to be more serious about how well they keep it. As serious about it as we all know to be careful to not steal, not lie, not commit adultery, etc., and start taking it's requirements as seriously as those things...or, acknowledge it really is/was just an illustration of a much more important spiritual discipline and stop insisting it's something that determines if you'll inherit eternal life or not.

I'm not saying this to make your Sabbath miserable as you try harder to keep Moses' requirements for Sabbath all the better. I'm saying it so you can maybe begin to see it was given as an illustration of a much more important thing we are to be careful to walk in, and which really does determine if we have eternal life or not.

 

[lowrab777]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

I figure if Sabbath keepers are going to say that we who don't keep Sabbath will perish in the judgment because we did not keep Sabbath (because it's an expected obedience of saving faith like 'do not steal' is, not because it's a work that saves) then they ought to be more serious about how well they keep it. As serious about it as we all know to be careful to not steal, not lie, not commit adultery, etc., and start taking it's requirements as seriously as those things...or, acknowledge it really is/was just an illustration of a much more important spiritual discipline and stop insisting it's something that determines if you'll inherit eternal life or not.

Yea,.... I never said that if you dont keep the sabbath your going to die in the second death. I believe I thought you missunderstood me because of a few statements you made,... However I may have miss understood your intent.
But it is beside the point to try harder and harder to keep the requirments of the sabbath according to the law of moses. I agree with that, One thing that many people do not take into account is the fact some of those things were added because of transgressions. And that they should not have originaly been there. and the covenant which GOD entered into with Israel was compromised by Israels failure to meet there obligation within that covenant there for GOD did change the legal terms of that covenant several times as he warned them he would.

The covenant we have entered into with JESUS CHRIST is the same covenant under the same terms as the one GOD offered ADAM in the garden of Eden Only this time instead of trying to meet our obligation through the knowledge of good and evil,..
We do it by the faith that was offered from the tree of life,..

You see if Adam had obeyed God there he would have done so by faith, which is the very thing that changed our nature Adam tried to do it by his own knowledge and ability.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

I think that was your thing? (+ 2 Cor. 4:2?)
God gave it verbally to Adam & Eve's two kids! And one DESIRED satan as his 'g'od. (1 John 5:16)

--Elijah

No, That is incorrect. We see it before Adam and Eve had kids.

Christ is the Eternal Covenant. The Lamb "slain from the creation of the world". (Hebrews 13:8 NIV).

The literal Mosaic Sabbath is not the eternal covenant, if that's what you were suggesting. :ohmy

NO, you are a lousy reader!;) (seriously!) You twist everything up into 2 Cor. 4:2.
Surely that cannot be intentional, huh?????

--Elijah

I don't intentionally misunderstand what you're trying to say. I try very hard to get the point of what you write. So far, I hear you saying I'm going to heck if I persist in not keeping a literal Sabbath (because it's the eternal covenant?).

 

[WIP]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

Let's try to avoid taking things too personally. The purpose of these discussions is to dig into the truth so we can learn and grow in our faith. Is it reasonable to expect that we may not have all the answers? Just sayin'.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

...it is beside the point to try harder and harder to keep the requirments of the sabbath according to the law of moses. I agree with that, One thing that many people do not take into account is the fact some of those things were added because of transgressions. And that they should not have originaly been there. and the covenant which GOD entered into with Israel was compromised by Israels failure to meet there obligation within that covenant there for GOD did change the legal terms of that covenant several times as he warned them he would.

We know the liberty to change the law was available to the priesthood in power at any one time. So why do law keepers resist the possiblity that Jesus, the Priest now in power, has also changed the law...and in this case because of righteousness, and not because of sin as you point out?

 

[lowrab777]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

We know the liberty to change the law was available to the priesthood in power at any one time. So why do law keepers resist the possiblity that Jesus, the Priest now in power, has also changed the law...and in this case because of righteousness, and not because of sin as you point out?

I'm sorry I did not know that the priesthood had the authority and or liberty to change the law,..... And I do not believe that they had that right..

The very act of trying to change that covenant was the failure to obey it,.. That is the very reason GOD had to change the legal terms of that agreement,..
Quite simply put Israel did not hold up there end of the bargain

And just to be clear I personaly cannot resist the fact that JESUS does have the power to change the law,.. That is kind of what he did when GOD called me, According to the law I am a sinner and I should be dead,..
JESUS also stated that he was the lord of the sabbath when he was measured by its parameters. And even if JESUS does things which the law prevents us from doing that doesnt make it ok for me to do the same thing. After all he is the LORD of the law not me.
That is the very reason you will find all types of Christians in the kingdom sunday, sabbath day, holy days, holidays,... It is up to JESUS to decide who may be approved and who may be found wanting.
For some reason people want to execute judgement that belongs GOD,... And that is something that should not be done,...
Other wise why not just kill anyone who denounces the name of Chist? As the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH DID in the crusades.
Even as the muslims try to do to the infedel / nonbeliever today.
Our GOD instead teaches us that we are not allowed to execute that type of judgement, He clearly states VENGEANCE IS MINE,...
It is up to us to appreciate and respect the statutes , laws, commandments and ordinances of GOD, and to do that the best you are able GOD will be your judge not mankind.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

We know the liberty to change the law was available to the priesthood in power at any one time. So why do law keepers resist the possiblity that Jesus, the Priest now in power, has also changed the law...and in this case because of righteousness, and not because of sin as you point out?

I'm sorry I did not know that the priesthood had the authority and or liberty to change the law,..... And I do not believe that they had that right..

"12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also." (Hebrews 7:12 NIV)

It's called Rabbinical judgment. [MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION] can probably fill in the details way better than I can and set us both straight about it. He obviously rubs shoulders with people very educated in Jewish things 'cause it shows in his posts. He's a smart chap.

Probably the famous example is Moses deciding that a man CAN divorce his wife.

For some reason people want to execute judgement that belongs GOD,... And that is something that should not be done,...
Other wise why not just kill anyone who denounces the name of Chist? As the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH DID in the crusades.
Even as the muslims try to do to the infedel / nonbeliever today.
Our GOD instead teaches us that we are not allowed to execute that type of judgement, He clearly states VENGEANCE IS MINE,...
It is up to us to appreciate and respect the statutes , laws, commandments and ordinances of GOD, and to do that the best you are able GOD will be your judge not mankind.

Hopefully you can see I'm not judging any law keeper. What I resist is the law keepers judgment of me (I know you're not one of them).

 

[jasoncran]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

ah ok. I know that is. well paul did that a lot. he made judgements that are recorded . the most famous one is that is man in the Corinthian church whereby the man was kicked out for his sin. jesus made a statement on that and paul used that statement about sin and confrontation of it to set a standard. this is from the priesthood.

moses did that as well.

however, that quoted verse is mentioned in the idea of the new priesthood that replaced the old one and the rules that are in place. paul also said this
"I shall not suffer a women to teach" until recently the churches didn't allow women to teach based on that. he then quotes the torah to back that up. that is very rabbinical.

 

[Elijah674]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

We know the liberty to change the law was available to the priesthood in power at any one time. So why do law keepers resist the possiblity that Jesus, the Priest now in power, has also changed the law...and in this case because of righteousness, and not because of sin as you point out?

I'm sorry I did not know that the priesthood had the authority and or liberty to change the law,..... And I do not believe that they had that right..

"12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also." (Hebrews 7:12 NIV)

It's called Rabbinical judgment. [MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION] can probably fill in the details way better than I can and set us both straight about it. He obviously rubs shoulders with people very educated in Jewish things 'cause it shows in his posts. He's a smart chap.

Probably the famous example is Moses deciding that a man CAN divorce his wife.

For some reason people want to execute judgement that belongs GOD,... And that is something that should not be done,...
Other wise why not just kill anyone who denounces the name of Chist? As the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH DID in the crusades.
Even as the muslims try to do to the infedel / nonbeliever today.
Our GOD instead teaches us that we are not allowed to execute that type of judgement, He clearly states VENGEANCE IS MINE,...
It is up to us to appreciate and respect the statutes , laws, commandments and ordinances of GOD, and to do that the best you are able GOD will be your judge not mankind.

Hopefully you can see I'm not judging any law keeper. What I resist is the law keepers judgment of me (I know you're not one of them).

Lovingly I say this to all who read the posting of mine... [[it is your post that 'i' do not like!]] For instance when 1 John 2:7-8 is penned it surely explains itself?? John did not change the priesthood!!

And in Heb. 8 the 'penman' puts it this way...
in verse 13 & the next chapter verse 1 on!
[13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb.9

[1] Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
[2] For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

--Elijah

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

"12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also." (Hebrews 7:12 NIV)

It's called Rabbinical judgment. [MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION] can probably fill in the details way better than I can and set us both straight about it. He obviously rubs shoulders with people very educated in Jewish things 'cause it shows in his posts. He's a smart chap.

Probably the famous example is Moses deciding that a man CAN divorce his wife.

For some reason people want to execute judgement that belongs GOD,... And that is something that should not be done,...
Other wise why not just kill anyone who denounces the name of Chist? As the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH DID in the crusades.
Even as the muslims try to do to the infedel / nonbeliever today.
Our GOD instead teaches us that we are not allowed to execute that type of judgement, He clearly states VENGEANCE IS MINE,...
It is up to us to appreciate and respect the statutes , laws, commandments and ordinances of GOD, and to do that the best you are able GOD will be your judge not mankind.

Hopefully you can see I'm not judging any law keeper. What I resist is the law keepers judgment of me (I know you're not one of them).

Lovingly I say this to all who read the posting of mine... [[it is your post that 'i' do not like!]] For instance when 1 John 2:7-8 is penned it surely explains itself?? John did not change the priesthood!!

And in Heb. 8 the 'penman' puts it this way...
in verse 13 & the next chapter verse 1 on!
[13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb.9

[1] Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
[2] For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

--Elijah

But we see an animal sacrificed for the sin of Adam and Eve long, long before Moses. So why did that end?

 

[Elijah674]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

"12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also." (Hebrews 7:12 NIV)

It's called Rabbinical judgment. [MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION] can probably fill in the details way better than I can and set us both straight about it. He obviously rubs shoulders with people very educated in Jewish things 'cause it shows in his posts. He's a smart chap.

Probably the famous example is Moses deciding that a man CAN divorce his wife.

For some reason people want to execute judgement that belongs GOD,... And that is something that should not be done,...
Other wise why not just kill anyone who denounces the name of Chist? As the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH DID in the crusades.
Even as the muslims try to do to the infedel / nonbeliever today.
Our GOD instead teaches us that we are not allowed to execute that type of judgement, He clearly states VENGEANCE IS MINE,...
It is up to us to appreciate and respect the statutes , laws, commandments and ordinances of GOD, and to do that the best you are able GOD will be your judge not mankind.

Hopefully you can see I'm not judging any law keeper. What I resist is the law keepers judgment of me (I know you're not one of them).

Lovingly I say this to all who read the posting of mine... [[it is your post that 'i' do not like!]] For instance when 1 John 2:7-8 is penned it surely explains itself?? John did not change the priesthood!!

And in Heb. 8 the 'penman' puts it this way...
in verse 13 & the next chapter verse 1 on!
[13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb.9

[1] Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
[2] For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

--Elijah

But we see an animal sacrificed for the sin of Adam and Eve long, long before Moses. So why did that end?

I give up? (for now)

--Elijah

 

[lowrab777]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

however, that quoted verse is mentioned in the idea of the new priesthood that replaced the old one and the rules that are in place

This is how I also understand the ability of the priesthood the change did not take place in Moseses time but upon the beginning of the priesthood of JESUS

Jethro your statement here

We know the liberty to change the law was available to the priesthood in power at any one time.

I cannot agree with.

 

[lowrab777]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

Lovingly I say this to all who read the posting of mine... [[it is your post that 'i' do not like!]] For instance when 1 John 2:7-8 is penned it surely explains itself?? John did not change the priesthood!!

John never had the authority to change the priesthood neither did the levites have the authority to change the law.
DOES ANY ONE REMEMBER WHAT THE REBELLION KORA WAS ABOUT OR DID YOU SKIP THAT PART OF YOUR BIBLE??

 

[jasoncran]

Re: -How Does God Desire The Keeping Of HIS &th Day Sammath-

jesus did. paul also commanded things that the church was to do. read philemon, with ephesians 6. I bet the Christians then starting to treat their slaves a bit more like an equal and also the slaves also worked for the masters as fellow men. that is true equality.yet there was no rule in the Law about gentiles owning slaves and or jew owning gentiles. only owning jews.