No worries, as it was a good question worth answering.Im sure i was addressing the post about living without sin having a peaceful discussion and learning . Unless the freindly reminder ( thanks for being friendly) was not directed at me. Ok maybe a little off topic talking about Paul and the Law and sin but i got adhd.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
How I can live without sin.
- Thread starter Hopeful
- Start date
I'm glad you see we can be freed from sin, in spite of some other posts.
PaulChristensen
Member
The big question here is, are you wanting to improve yourself because the church requires it of you? And do you think that Jesus requires anything of you to earn His love for you?
The Scripture says, "Even while we were yet sinners, Jesus loved us and gave Himself for us." So, when did Jesus start loving you, and is He loving you more because you are trying to be a holy person? Isn't that doing stuff to try and earn His love?
If His love is freely given to you, and you are trying to earn it, wouldn't that be insulting Him?
Do you know who Jesus really is?
Are you going to rest in the love of Jesus for you and allow Him to work His will in you, or are you going to be a "churchianity" person and do what the religious organization expects of you?
Here's what "churchianity" expects of you:
You should be baptised in water
You should speak in tongues
You should give up cigarettes, and every other "work of the flesh" you mentioned.
You should stop sinning permanently
You should spend a specified time in prayer
You should carry your Bible around everywhere
In other words, you are obligated to do this list of works otherwise Jesus will stop loving you. The reality is that if you do not comply with these "shoulds" then you could be "punished" by those who think they have authority in your church and be relegated to the group that needs to be "spiritually re-educated" by intensive counselling. If you decide not to play the "churchianity" game, they could require you to leave the church, and then you could lose all the friendships you made there, because they would treat you as persona non grata.
So, my question is: Are you walking in the churchianity game or walking in the Spirit? Who are you pleasing? Your church friends and mentors or Jesus?
Did you know that Jesus loved you before you starting trying to be a good church-going Christian, and He hasn't started loving you more as a result of you trying to comply with the rules given to you by your church mentors.
What would happen to you if you decide to stop playing the church game? Would you be subject to general disapproval by others in the church? I would expect so. This would be an important clue that you are more concerned with pleasing others in your church than you are of pleasing Jesus, seeing that Jesus is already pleased with you because you received Him as Saviour right at the start.
So, just being yourself, and stop trying to be better than you are, and getting to know the Jesus of the Gospels to find out who He really is, will bring you into fellowship with Him, and allow Him to perform His workmanship in you, which will enhance your growth in grace much more effectively than you trying to do it of yourself just to please a group of church people.
No, God requires it of me.
He already did enough, and now I want to please Him in everything I do.
I don't know if "loving" and "really loving" are different.
Love encompasses all, regardless of its modifying words.
I'm not trying to earn something I have already been given.
He is the Word which was manifested in the flesh, and my Shepherd.
God did provide His children with pastors, prophets and teachers, so my answer is "yes" to both questions.
But the real church probably doesn't qualify as your "churchianity" group.
Except for spending a "specified" time in prayer, what is wrong with any of those?
I could never ONLY pray as much as someone dictated, as I speak with God all day long.
Not obligated, but by choice.
Nobody can force another to love God.
You either do or you don't.
I walk in the Sprit INSTEAD of in the flesh, and I please both Jesus and my brothers in the Lord by my obedience to God.
Shouldn't we all be doing that?
I know, but I also know the angels rejoiced when I turned from sin. (Luke 15:10)
If by playing the church game you mean go back into the world of sin and lust, my name would be erased from the book of life.
I can't do anything "of myself" as the Lord is one with me. (John 17:11, 22)
I don't obey God to please my brothers and sisters, or our pastor or deacon: I do it to please God.
And I recommend it to everyone.
PaulChristensen
Member
When we get to know who Jesus really is through reading the Gospels, and how much He unconditionally loves us no matter who we are and what we do, we can rest in His love. Then sin becomes unwelcome to us because it breaks fellowship and opens us up to getting condemnation bombs dropped on us by the devil. We therefore hate sin and do everything we can to avoid it.
But the continued presence of sin in our flesh and our struggles with it, humbles us because we know without the love of Jesus, we are helpless. We need Him through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit to work within us so that we conform to the image of Christ. If we try to hurry the work up through our own strength, we quench and grieve the Holy Spirit within us, and Jesus, through His love for us, allows us to fail big time to teach us that holiness can be achieved only through Him. We then realise what is happening, and we run to God's throne of grace, confess that we have sinned by trying to improve ourselves instead of allowing Him to do it, and we are forgiven and cleansed, and then are able to sit down and rest in the green pastures and still waters of His love, so the Holy Spirit can resume His sanctifying work within us.
One real problem that we have, is the expectation that church people have of them. They confuse the issue by piling a whole lot of "you should" on us. There are some fundamentalist and Pentecostal churches that have long lists of "you should" expectations of their members. This is why there is so much disillusionment, struggle, and discouragement, causing many to give up and walk away from the church and often from Christ Himself. Their knowledge and awareness of Jesus is blocked by churches imposing expectations on them, forcing them to maintain the love of Jesus for them through good works.
PaulChristensen
Member
Why do you think God requires anything of you? What can you do to earn God's love for you? The Scripture is clear about God's requirement: "And what does the Lord require of me? To walk justly, to love mercy and to walk humbly with my God." The New Testament way of doing this is to sit down, stop trying, and rest in the love of Jesus.
The real test of whether you are obligated to a church or not is what will happen if you tell your church leaders that you are not obligated to accept their authority concerning the way you live your Christian or personal life, and that you will take all your instructions from the Holy Spirit from now on.
What will happen if you, in order to do the will of God, fail to please your brothers in Christ? Will you feel guilty about that because of their expectations of you?
Do you think that if you decide to stop going to church services that you will automatically go back into the world and sin? Wouldn't that be putting your faith and trust in your church and not in Jesus Himself? What if Jesus told you to stop going to church for a while so you can have more direct fellowship with Him? Would you feel okay about that, or would you be consumed with guilt every time a fellow church member said they missed you at church?
Actually the real church is composed of the people whom Jesus loves. It is not the organisation and its programmes and expectations.
I'm afraid you can't see both satisfying God, and His children at the same, time as possible.
It is.
By obedience to God, I also obey the church, which is His body.
They are inseparable.
If the church were full of iniquity and sin, obedience to God would not be tolerated or endorsed.
Is that the angle you see this from?
A corrupt church?
PaulChristensen
Member
The true church is not the building, organisation, structure or programme. It is made up of the people who meet together for fellowship. If we are walking rightly with the Lord, we will also be at peace with those who also love the Lord.
But we can be trapped into working to please the people we respect the most. I have had the same experience concerning the mature pastor who taught me much about the ministry of the Spirit. He was very strict, and now that I am the age he was when he discipled me, I find myself thinking if he was around now, he would approve of me. I had to correct myself by asking myself, am I content with being approved of the Lord, or am I adding the approval of the pastor as well to make me feel fulfilled? I had to ask myself that if Jesus is my all in all, why am I daydreaming of being approved by a mere man?
What do you think would the attitude of your pastor and church friends if the Lord led you away to that church to a small church down the road with just 10 people in it, because He wanted you and your gifting to benefit that church? That would be the test.
How do you think the church people in Samaria thought of Philip who, in the middle of a great revival where souls were being saved, people were being baptised with the Spirit, and demons cast out, suddenly whisked himself off to the backside of the desert? Did they think that he had deserted the ship? We don't know. What would you think of a preacher who came to your church for a conference, had a powerful revival, and right in the middle of it, walked out and went to a church in another city? Would you think he was doing God's will? Be honest!
PaulChristensen
Member
Evan Roberts was the leading light in the Welsh Revival of the late 19th Century. While the revival was in full swing, he suddenly walked away from it and lived a private life until he passed away in the early 1950s. As a consequence, the revival petered out.
Now, was the continuance of the revival depending on the ministry of Evan Roberts, and expectations of him? And why didn't the revival continue after his departure if the people were depending on the Lord and His power to keep it going.
My view is that people had expectations of Evan Roberts that were more than he could handle. They were looking to him instead of the Lord, and so he was over worked and burned out. When he departed, all those people who benefited from his ministry didn't want to know him any longer, because he had failed them in their view.
In my church, when one of our ministers resigned, half the congregation left the church. Why? They had their dependence on that minister and not the Lord, so when he left, they had nothing to stay in the church for. Only those who knew that the Lord had called them to the church stayed, because they knew that ministers come and go, but the Holy Spirit continued in the church. So, those people who left, combined their view of God's will for them with their attachment to that minister, so when the minister left, there was nothing left to give them any indication that supported staying with the church was God's will for them, so they left for greener pastures.
Actually, there is a general decline of membership in western Evangelical churches. People are leaving churches all over. Why is that? Why don't they want to go to church any more? Is it because church no longer holds any fulfillment or satisfaction for them? Whose fault is that? The church, or the Lord? What has changed in a church to stop it being fun and enjoyable to go to church on Sunday? Why do so many find church boring?
Why is it that teenage children who have been brought up in church throughout their childhood leave the church once they leave their parents' home? Is it because they found church boring and irrelevant to them?
Now, was the continuance of the revival depending on the ministry of Evan Roberts, and expectations of him? And why didn't the revival continue after his departure if the people were depending on the Lord and His power to keep it going.
My view is that people had expectations of Evan Roberts that were more than he could handle. They were looking to him instead of the Lord, and so he was over worked and burned out. When he departed, all those people who benefited from his ministry didn't want to know him any longer, because he had failed them in their view.
In my church, when one of our ministers resigned, half the congregation left the church. Why? They had their dependence on that minister and not the Lord, so when he left, they had nothing to stay in the church for. Only those who knew that the Lord had called them to the church stayed, because they knew that ministers come and go, but the Holy Spirit continued in the church. So, those people who left, combined their view of God's will for them with their attachment to that minister, so when the minister left, there was nothing left to give them any indication that supported staying with the church was God's will for them, so they left for greener pastures.
Actually, there is a general decline of membership in western Evangelical churches. People are leaving churches all over. Why is that? Why don't they want to go to church any more? Is it because church no longer holds any fulfillment or satisfaction for them? Whose fault is that? The church, or the Lord? What has changed in a church to stop it being fun and enjoyable to go to church on Sunday? Why do so many find church boring?
Why is it that teenage children who have been brought up in church throughout their childhood leave the church once they leave their parents' home? Is it because they found church boring and irrelevant to them?
please post actual scripture.
When you post your opininon and tag it with a scripture reference it looks like you are trying to hide what the passage actually says.
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7
"IF" we walk (present tense) in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus cleanses us (present tense) from all sin.
So as you can plainly see, we can indeed be walkibg in the light as He is in the light and still sin, in which we need to be cleansed.
This walking in the light is a continual ongoing action, as well as the cleansing of sin, and the fellowship with one another.
I believe the more I grow in Christ the less I sin because He restores my soul and leads me in paths of righteousness for His name sake.
I have come a long way. My desire is to obey Him and endure to the end, that I may honor Him.
Without Him I can do nothing.
JLB
Also, there were demonic manifestions disguised as the Holy Spirit, and it became overwhelming for him.
This is why a strong discerning leadership structure needs to be in place for a true revival to be sustained.
Not just one man.
JLB
Truthfrees
Member
can you share more about how you and others you know do it?
testimonies help people see how to apply God's truth
PaulChristensen
Member
Not him petsonally, but in the meetings.
You ever read Jessie Penn Louis ... War on the Saints?
The scripture can be referenced in order to verify my intent. That is why I include it.
I don't know how you got that from that verse.
If we sin, we are not walking in the light.
God is light, (1 John 1:5), and in Him is no darkness at all.
According to Pro 4:19, darkness is sin.
The cleansing happens at the start of our walk in the light-God, upon leaving the darkness.
It can be, but many turn back to sin-darkness.
That is nothing but wishful thinking, from those snared by sin.
As I wrote above, our cleansing happens at the start of our walk in God when we are washed by the blood of Christ at our water baptism into Him and into His death. (Rom 6:3-7)
Just think, if your first repentance from sin had been true you would never have sinned again.
daninthelionsden
Member
While I think it is very commendable you have overcome much with the help of the Holy Spirit and have a heart for obedience, there is no way for any of us to declare ourselves sin free as we don't know where every little sin is hiding in our lives. We unconsciously sin because we don't realize it until we are shown by the Holy Spirit. We sin by what we left undone. How are you doing ALL that you should do? How would you know ALL that you should do?
Sure.
Comradery, working together and playing together, above and beyond just church related efforts.
Together we have several trucks we do "loads" with and "moving" with. This is to support the ministry.
We take turns on with which days we help out, and everyone works Saturday.
But besides work, we camp and fish together too.
Plus travel. Go to ball games. Pass out fliers. Visit other so-called churches.
Some live together as brothers, and there are families with children, but we all spend most of our time with each other.
In our daytime jobs, we demonstrate to the watchers that we can be holy during regular business hours, by reflecting Christ in all we do.
Sometimes it is tough to stay separate from those we work with, like not attending their parties and going to restaurants with them very often...though once in a while.
With that mind set you will never be free.
The blood of Christ washes away ALL past sin.
You can be made a NEW CREATURE, born of God's seed instead of Adam's seed.
Stay in the light, and you will never sin again.
All sin is on purpose, as it requires temptation , enticement, lust, and conception. (James 1:14-15)
Every temptation is weighed for its results.
It can't be accidental, or unconsciously.
It takes effort to sin.
Doing good requires effort too, but with the new creature's divine nature doing right is natural.
With the Holy Ghost's guidance, we can make right decisions.
By hanging out with the right people you are not exposed to that which kills souls.
As it is written. "Abstain from all appearance of evil." (1 Thes 5:22)
Study every single day, to know the mind of Christ.
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daninthelionsden
Member
You did not address the sin of omission (things left undone). How do you know you have done all you are supposed to have done?
Please post the scripture you are referring to.