How I can live without sin.

[Edward]

Let's approach this from a different angle...Are some of you Brothers and Sisters saying that you could not go without sinning for one day even?

Are you Brothers and Sisters saying that you are led by your flesh and not by the Spirit? Ask yourself, could you go for a few hours without sinning?

Is sinning a choice that you have or is it involuntary? Could you go for even one single hour without sinning?

 

[daninthelionsden]

Yep. Very insightful. Her book has got a bit of flak from Pentecostals over the years, but she certainly did know the difference between the work of the Holy Spirit and the manifestation of demons.

Actually she was the person who got Evan Roberts away and looked after him. She was a bit dictatorial about the way she protected and looked after him and kept as many visitors away as she could. She might have saved him from going into error by making sure he was removed from the revival while still on a high.

Historically, we have seen a number of very powerful ministries who in later years went into things they shouldn't have. For example, William Branham who had a remarkable gift of healing and words of knowledge, but in later years started to believe he was Elijah; and Oral Roberts whose ministry was well respected in his early years, but in later years had a vision of a 90ft Jesus. These sideways steps in error put a blight on their ministries and people now view these men in the light of the errors in later life, rather than the multitude of souls that were saved through their early ministries. By Evan Robert's removal from the revival while it was still at its height saved him from the same decline into error.

I saw this happen to one of my spiritual heroes in Joe Donato. He was a great Evangelist and had a fantastic witness. The Lord blessed him with the gift of healing. He served in the healing of a friend f mine and myself. In his later years, a cult-like organization attached themselves to him and took advantage of his advanced age. Other people served as self-appointed spokespersons. He became influenced and isolated til retired.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Let's approach this from a different angle...Are some of you Brothers and Sisters saying that you could not go without sinning for one day even?

Are you Brothers and Sisters saying that you are led by your flesh and not by the Spirit? Ask yourself, could you go for a few hours without sinning?

Is sinning a choice that you have or is it involuntary? Could you go for even one single hour without sinning?

Jesus walked perfectly in the Father's will and so was sinless. He said Himself He had no place to rest His head. He could barely even find a place/time to mourn for the death of John the Baptist. The sin of omission is most likely where sin resides constantly. Passive sin like this is evident if we make time for anything short of serving God. This we ALL do. Even Hopeful.

 

[PaulChristensen]

I saw this happen to one of my spiritual heroes in Joe Donato. He was a great Evangelist and had a fantastic witness. The Lord blessed him with the gift of healing. He served in the healing of a friend f mine and myself. In his later years, a cult-like organization attached themselves to him and took advantage of his advanced age. Other people served as self-appointed spokespersons. He became influenced and isolated til retired.

The most effective ministries for the Lord are a real threat to the devil, so he does what he can to neutralise them. He doesn't have to actually destroy them, all he has to do is to tarnish their reputation so that people lose faith in them.

A A Allen was one such ministry. His miracle ministry was totally genuine, yet not long before his death someone spiked his drink without him knowing, and a highway patrol officer was right there to cop him for drink driving. Many thought it was too much of a coincidence and believed that he was set up. Whether he was innocent or not, his reputation was tarnished. Just before his death his knee joints were wearing out, so he had one operated on. The pain was so bad he needed pain medication, but he didn't want the pills and used alcohol to deaden the pain. Unfortunately, he drank too much at one time and died from alcohol poisoning. Many accusations came that he was a secret alcoholic, and this put a blight on his whole ministry. But the autopsy showed acute alcohol poisoning, and not chronic alcoholism. What it does show that in the best of ministries, the treasure is in earthen vessels.

If we want to take the mote out of the eye of those we think are false ministries, we need to look in the mirror to see the log in our own eyes.

 

[Edward]

Jesus walked perfectly in the Father's will and so was sinless. He said Himself He had no place to rest His head. He could barely even find a place/time to mourn for the death of John the Baptist. The sin of omission is most likely where sin resides constantly. Passive sin like this is evident if we make time for anything short of serving God. This we ALL do. Even Hopeful.

Well what am I saying is that, if we all who are born again Christians reject that we are the righteousness of God in Christ and continue to call ourselves sinners, then how many scriptures would that nullify? My (unresearched) feeling is that there are a lot of scriptures that would be nullified in our Bible if we continue to be sinful after having been born again.

So are we saying that the old man is not dead still?
Do we say that all things have not become new?
Have we also not forsaken all that is this world?
Is the Blood of Jesus not as powerful as it is said to be?
Have you been transformed by the renewing of your mind?

Is being sinless only a feat which Jesus Himself could accomplish? Would trying make it a works based salvation?

John 14:12
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.../

You see what I mean? In order for me to continue to be sinful it would make all these scriptures mean nothing. I submit for my Brothers and Sisters approval that, I am a sinner in need of God's grace is no more than a platitude which used to be true. For all things have been made new and I am more than a conqueror in Christ.

Our Brother Hopeful is definitely on to something here.

 

[Edward]

Is...on earth as it is in Heaven not possible then?

 

[daninthelionsden]

Well what am I saying is that, if we all who are born again Christians reject that we are the righteousness of God in Christ and continue to call ourselves sinners, then how many scriptures would that nullify? My (unresearched) feeling is that there are a lot of scriptures that would be nullified in our Bible if we continue to be sinful after having been born again.

So are we saying that the old man is not dead still?
Do we say that all things have not become new?
Have we also not forsaken all that is this world?
Is the Blood of Jesus not as powerful as it is said to be?
Have you been transformed by the renewing of your mind?

Is being sinless only a feat which Jesus Himself could accomplish? Would trying make it a works based salvation?

John 14:12
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.../

You see what I mean? In order for me to continue to be sinful it would make all these scriptures mean nothing. I submit for my Brothers and Sisters approval that, I am a sinner in need of God's grace is no more than a platitude which used to be true. For all things have been made new and I am more than a conqueror in Christ.

Our Brother Hopeful is definitely on to something here.

I agree with Hopeful more than you or he expect, but it's just not possible for us to do. Active sin can be greatly diminished, but passive sin is almost impossible. "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak". We fail to do/say/think those things we know we should = sin.
I firmly support believing is evidenced by obedience, but selfishness is so ingrained in us it caused our fall. Jesus said the love of money is the root of all sin. He said this not because selfishness isn't the real root, but because selfishness is so ingrained....it's a given. We have to have a heart for obedience and, as we walk with the Lord, He will show us what to stop doing and also what we should do at each/every instance. Should we try? ...YES. Do we? .....NO. Everyone needs to look in the real spiritual mirror to continue growth and not in the mirror of denial trying to claim that which eludes us while living on this earth.

 

[Hopeful]

Throughout this thread one think comes across very strongly.
" I live a sinless life. "

Wasn't that in the title of the thread?
The point of the topic is to show others that obedience to God is possible.

What is sin? According to the sermon on the mount, looking or thinking the wrong thoughts are sin.
You would have us believe you never have a wrong thought, or actually do something that is wrong, petti or mean.

John wrote..."All unrighteousness is sin." (1 John 5:17)
I agree with him.

Paul wrote about his rightousness being like used toilet tissue.

I too thought Paul expressed that sentiment somewhere but couldn't find it.
It was a quote from Isaiah 64:6.
Can you point me to the scripture you cite?

This debate has had its interesting moments, I leave it but with a challenge for you and all who think they do not sin.

It wasn't so much a debate as it was my testimony.
.

Every great Christian saw himself in the light of Christ like Paul, as the Chief of All Sinners, something you clearly do not see your selves as.

There is no sin in "the light of Christ".
Paul's sins stopped at his repentance from sin.
He may have been the worst sinner saved by Christ Jesus, but he didn't retain that title afte he quit persecuting the church.

Why is it that so many site the sins. or alleged sins, of others, to allow sin in their own lives?
They have the wrong role models.

 

[Hopeful]

Any who hold to the doctrine that they are now sinless, are not being honest with themselves. They know they are a sinner. They are being dishonest to God and the Bible, and themselves.

Behind this doctrine is a works salvation. A glorying in ones obedience that places them on a spiritual plane above others who bear the Name of Christ.

Quantrill

I guess my God can do more than the god you don't think can actually make a change in a man's life.
He waits at the door.

 

[Hopeful]

So you believe the same as a guy on another forum who told us all that he had not sinned once in the last 30 years?

Having not followed him around for 30 years, I can't testify.
But I know God has the power to make it happen.
Don't you think so too?

 

[Hopeful]

True. What's the point of telling folk if they confess their sin God is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse them (1 John 1:9) if the presence of sin is not with them?

What's the point of getting forgiven if you just go out and sin again?
In a different context than the one 1 John 1 uses, verse 9 would be before verse 7.
Confess, v9, and then wash the sins away by the blood of Christ, v7.
After that , remain in the light forever !

 

[Hopeful]

Charles Spurgeon wrote, "I'm just a poor sinner and nothing at all; but Jesus Christ is my all in all.

And D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones wrote:
There is no such person as a good Christian, but we are all vile people saved by the grace of God.

Didn't Jesus say in Matt 7:15-20, we could tell the false prophets by their fruit?
If the fruit is unceasing sin, how can they be of God?

 

[Hopeful]

Sorry but the word says...
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:7-8

Walking in the light as He is in the light, does not mean we are perfectly sinless.

• If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves

JLB

It seems you don't believe verse 7 or 9.
1 John 1:7..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from ALL sin."
1 John 1:9..."If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from
all unrighteousness."
If all the sin/unrighteousness is washed away, why can't we glorify God by saying it?

 

[Hopeful]

Yes God is light.
God is our light, and He illuminates us and speaks to us as we walk with Him.
Here is what He says...
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7-9
While we are walking with God, if we say, lose our temper, we can repent and confess our sin and be forgiven and continue to walk with Him in the light.
What I am not saying is we can walk in the light while we are living in open sin as say an adulterer, or a liar or God forbid a murderer and think we are walking in the light.
Just because you get water baptized, doesn’t mean you somehow become sinless, because your physical body is now dead.
JLB

Your POV is that there is sin in God, who is the light.
That can't be right.

 

[Hopeful]

I agree with Hopeful more than you or he expect, but it's just not possible for us to do. Active sin can be greatly diminished, but passive sin is almost impossible. "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak". We fail to do/say/think those things we know we should = sin.
I firmly support believing is evidenced by obedience, but selfishness is so ingrained in us it caused our fall. Jesus said the love of money is the root of all sin. He said this not because selfishness isn't the real root, but because selfishness is so ingrained....it's a given. We have to have a heart for obedience and, as we walk with the Lord, He will show us what to stop doing and also what we should do at each/every instance. Should we try? ...YES. Do we? .....NO. Everyone needs to look in the real spiritual mirror to continue growth and not in the mirror of denial trying to claim that which eludes us while living on this earth.

The weak-link of that POV is that the flesh has been killed, and made a new creature at water baptism into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection. (Rom 6:3-7)
It is now reborn of God's seed and not Adam's.

Having skin and bones can't make you sin.
Passive sin is sin.

 

[Who Me]

too thought Paul expressed that sentiment somewhere but couldn't find it.

Google gave 1 tim1:15.
you have Paul's testimony in Romans about not doing the good but doing the evil deeds.
1john1:8-10 about Christians deluding themselves if they say they are without sin.

you have to distort scripture to prevent this verses applying to Christians, which shows this teaching is false.

 

[Quantrill]

I guess my God can do more than the god you don't think can actually make a change in a man's life.
He waits at the door.

I'm not questioning God. I'm questioning you. I believe God. I don't believe you.

You're lying to yourself. Whether you really believe it, who can say.

You're a sinner like all of us.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

True. What's the point of telling folk if they confess their sin God is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse them (1 John 1:9) if the presence of sin is not with them?

And that is just our overt sins. What about, 'Did you want to?" The sins of the heart?

And what is the point of Jesus present office as our Advocate? Hopeful doesn't need an Advocate.

This strange and false doctrine of being sinless perverts the very work of Christ.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Well what am I saying is that, if we all who are born again Christians reject that we are the righteousness of God in Christ and continue to call ourselves sinners, then how many scriptures would that nullify? My (unresearched) feeling is that there are a lot of scriptures that would be nullified in our Bible if we continue to be sinful after having been born again.

So are we saying that the old man is not dead still?
Do we say that all things have not become new?
Have we also not forsaken all that is this world?
Is the Blood of Jesus not as powerful as it is said to be?
Have you been transformed by the renewing of your mind?

Is being sinless only a feat which Jesus Himself could accomplish? Would trying make it a works based salvation?

John 14:12
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.../

You see what I mean? In order for me to continue to be sinful it would make all these scriptures mean nothing. I submit for my Brothers and Sisters approval that, I am a sinner in need of God's grace is no more than a platitude which used to be true. For all things have been made new and I am more than a conqueror in Christ.

Our Brother Hopeful is definitely on to something here.

Calling ourselves sinners is not rejecting that we are the righteousness of God.

As I have told Hopeful, don't conflate what God has done for us with our present experience. God has certainly accomplished it all, already. And we walk, or try to walk in that.

Yes, being sinless is only something Jesus Christ could accomplish. If you want to try it, good luck. Just ask yourself this question, "Did I want to"?

In other words, one can walk with Christ, live in the Spirit, enjoy a fellowship with God and Christ. But that is not the result of trying to be sinless. If your goal is to be sinless, you're not walking for the right reason. And you wind up lying to yourself that you have obtained such a goal.

Guess what? For all eternity, we will be saved sinners. Does that offend anyone?

Quantrill

 

[PaulChristensen]

What's the point of getting forgiven if you just go out and sin again?
In a different context than the one 1 John 1 uses, verse 9 would be before verse 7.
Confess, v9, and then wash the sins away by the blood of Christ, v7.
After that , remain in the light forever !

So you are saying that you never transgress the moral law in any way? That you have risen all the way up to the top of the holy mountain and become absolutely perfect without one shortcoming or failure? Let me know your secret, then I won't have to depend on the continuing advocacy of Christ before the Father's throne as He holds up the sacrifice of His blood for my continued forgiveness and cleansing.