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[ Testimony ] How I left the faith

T. E. Smith

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Edward

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Yes.

No, actually, I definitely did, and believed it fully.

If you keep attacking me for my age nearly every post, I'll start referring to you as "old man" all the time. Reciprocity.

No.

One does not make contact with God and establish relationship and become born again without a big change taking place. And it's memorable. You said you don't have that. You said you don't know God.
 

T. E. Smith

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One does not make contact with God and establish relationship and become born again without a big change taking place. And it's memorable.
If they start off in a bad place, then yes. But if their first thoughts of God are belief (as for me), then... that's not the case.
 

hawkman

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If they start off in a bad place, then yes. But if their first thoughts of God are belief (as for me), then... that's not the case.
Belief alone in not enough to be a Christian .
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Belief is the first step but you have to accept Jesus as your savior and follow and serve him .
 

andy pandy

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andy pandy hawkman I see no evidence for those Christian claims that we must rely on the Spirit. Besides, Muslims claim this about their own faith.

"no concern" not as "uncaring", but rather as not being offended. I can PM you with that, because there's no way I could ever convert you even if I wanted to. And you know that.

Quite a stereotype you have here. Just because morality is socially constructed does not mean it is not real. Furthermore, "no absolute truth" does not = "no absolute morality." Atheists tend to be much more liberal, like Episcopalians.

Then stop talking about it.
Being a rationalist I would not expect you to to see or accept the evidence of scripture.
 

andy pandy

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Atheists believe in no spiritual absolute Truth, therefore, they believe in no moral absolutes. Atheists have no code of honor other than that which suits them. I have been on atheist sites before. Situational ethics seem to be the rule. Your words indicate no intention to recruit the spiritually ignorant. Your intentions could well be another matter. Atheists I have spoken with seem preferential to the Episcopalian denomination and for good reason.
I have dialoged with atheist's and a constant refrain is no atheist speaks for another. A case of every man for himself.
 
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I went thru a brief phase of rejecting "Christianity" until (thankfully...) Jesus, Himself, intervened and saved me (ongoing, of course). thing is...

-religion- doesn't save anyone. Religion often serves the interests of the powerful. "Getting religion" tends to make good people better, bad people worse. And then...

there's Jesus. On a -good day- , a given church will facilitate The Lord's work in the lives of its congregants (first and foremost). For whatever reasons, I'm beginning to suspect there aren't too many good days and there aren't too many churches that are interested in making The Lord's work come about vs whatever you call what modern churches tend to do. I don't...get it.

But...when I needed forgiveness and miracles (note the plural), Jesus intervened. Sometimes, I lean Calvinist. Makes sense. Other times...-shrug- Jesus showed (and continues to show) mercy to me and millions upon millions of others. Don't over think it, I suppose.

At any rate...

you can leave a church, the "Christian" subculture of these united states, all that...doesn't mean Jesus cannot or will not intervene to save -you- , individually. Hopefully, He's already intervened to save others burned by the established church system and some "church people" who otherwise might have lived and died in unrepentant sins covered by self-righteousness. :)
 

journeyman

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Being a rationalist I would not expect you to to see or accept the evidence of scripture.
Why wouldn't you expect someone of normal understanding to accept the evidence of scripture? There is no other writing in the world from the beginning of recorded time until this day that prophecies the coming of a notable like the OT does of our Lord.
 

T. E. Smith

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I have dialoged with atheist's and a constant refrain is no atheist speaks for another. A case of every man for himself.
atheism is individualistic, religion is not. That's part of what I like about atheism. In religion, I couldn't think freely or speak my mind, but with atheism, I'm absolutely able to do that because there is no dogma to follow.
 
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atheism is individualistic, religion is not. That's part of what I like about atheism. In religion, I couldn't think freely or speak my mind, but with atheism, I'm absolutely able to do that because there is no dogma to follow.
This is exactly why it's either follow God.........and everything else. You can do whatever you want, but love does no harm per the Bible. Sin is anything that harms yourself or others. God is the God of love and love does no harm. Those who follow him with live will him now and forever! So when you die.........you go where you wanted to go, somewhere where God isn't. (you will have no God to answer to, but those who think like you)
 
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And then, when I became an atheist, I was suddenly liberated. I realized that the Bible did not have to dictate my morality. I could freely question the Bible's integrity. I could freely question creationism. Actually, I could freely question anything. Atheism has liberated my mind, and I would never go back.
Once, I got barked at by a Darwinist, an evolutionist, when I referred to his Darwinism, his evolutionism, by the apt terms "Darwinism" and "evolutionism". He complained something along the lines of: "The terms 'evolutionism' and 'evolutionist' are offensive to me because I accept evolution, and accepting evolution is not a religion, so it is not an ism, and accepting evolution does not make me a religionist!" Which was quite amusing, see, because, not only had I not even said the word, "religion," nor implied that I'd be willing to use the word, "religion," to refer to his Darwinism/evolutionism (because I would not be willing to do so), but also, that very same Darwinist/evolutionist was proudly calling himself "atheist" and boasting about his "atheism". By his own, self-defeating testimony, he was out of the one side of his mouth calling his atheism "religion," which, out of the other side of his mouth, he would irately repudiate (effectively making himself transparently guilty of special pleading on behalf of his self-inconsistent, self-serving use of the suffix, -ism).

One thing I've discovered is that all that makes an atheist an atheist is his/her willingness, motivated by his/her hatred against God, to go about saying any of a number of a certain set of things, which set includes the following things (and variations thereof):
  • "I'm an atheist!"
  • "I lack belief in God!"
  • "There is no God!"
  • "God does not exist!"
  • etc.
 
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What's wrong hawkman ? A lot of atheists call themselves freethinkers - for a reason.
Yeah...for the same motivation they call themselves lots of other things they like to call themselves: because they like to imagine that they are somehow mentally and morally superior to certain other people, and that by applying such words to themselves, they are demonstrating that they are.
 
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atheism is individualistic, religion is not. That's part of what I like about atheism. In religion, I couldn't think freely or speak my mind, but with atheism, I'm absolutely able to do that because there is no dogma to follow.
Atheists: "atheism is individualistic, religion is not."
Also atheists: "Christians are atheists, too; it's just that I happen to believe in one less god than Christians believe in."
 

hawkman

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atheism is individualistic, religion is not. That's part of what I like about atheism. In religion, I couldn't think freely or speak my mind, but with atheism, I'm absolutely able to do that because there is no dogma to follow.
As a follower of Jesus I have never thought I could not think freely or speak my mind . Although the Holy Spirit will help keep you from speaking out of order .
 

T. E. Smith

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Once, I got barked at by a Darwinist, an evolutionist, when I referred to his Darwinism, his evolutionism, by the apt terms "Darwinism" and "evolutionism". He complained something along the lines of: "The terms 'evolutionism' and 'evolutionist' are offensive to me because I accept evolution, and accepting evolution is not a religion, so it is not an ism, and accepting evolution does not make me a religionist!" Which was quite amusing, see, because, not only had I not even said the word, "religion," nor implied that I'd be willing to use the word, "religion," to refer to his Darwinism/evolutionism (because I would not be willing to do so), but also, that very same Darwinist/evolutionist was proudly calling himself "atheist" and boasting about his "atheism". By his own, self-defeating testimony, he was out of the one side of his mouth calling his atheism "religion," which, out of the other side of his mouth, he would irately repudiate (effectively making himself transparently guilty of special pleading on behalf of his self-inconsistent, self-serving use of the suffix, -ism).

One thing I've discovered is that all that makes an atheist an atheist is his/her willingness, motivated by his/her hatred against God, to go about saying any of a number of a certain set of things, which set includes the following things (and variations thereof):
  • "I'm an atheist!"
  • "I lack belief in God!"
  • "There is no God!"
  • "God does not exist!"
  • etc.
yes all that makes an atheist is the lack of belief in God. So I am more than an atheist; I am a humanist and secular satanist.
 
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yes all that makes an atheist is the lack of belief in God. So I am more than an atheist; I am a humanist and secular satanist.
"yes" to what? Obviously you are not expressing agreement, here, with anything I have said. I have never said that lacking this or that belief makes someone an atheist.
 
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