[_ Old Earth _] How old is the Earth???

[Doulos Iesou]

God has allowed each species a genetic variation potential to compensate for what ever enviroment they encounter. Bugs in general are very important to the functioning of the enviroment so it makes perfect sense that God would make a gazillion variations of bugs (not to mention they are food for us).

What is the mechanism that generates that genetic variation? That is key.

Our interpretation of the data is just a valid as yours. You are working with your bias, us with ours.

If only that were true... Young Earth Creationism works with anecdotal evidence, little pieces of old science or gathering little facts here and there then use it to support their already assumed conclusions. Modern science is an attempt to find an explanation that fits all of the data on the matter, one that is not assumed at the beginning.

You'll notice that people who accept evolution defy all kinds of different ideological beliefs. There are Christian Evolutionists, Muslim Evolutionists, Buddhist Evolutionists, etc.

That is because evolution isn't something come to based on a certain bias, unless that bias is towards following the evidence.

At this point, it's a stalemate, neither of us can "prove" anything.

YEC vs Evolution is not a stalemate, lol. This to me is akin to a conspiracy theory, because you would have to believe that people of all different backgrounds and cultures have come to the same conclusion over all the evidence.

I have no agenda when it comes to biology, except the truth.. plain and simple. YEC is not science, it is fundamentalist dogma, which is why it is rejected from being taught in schools.

We were not there. As stated before, with all the other related evidence, we think the picture is clear. I, for one would rather trust scriptute over man's interpretation.

You would rather trust your interpretation of Scripture over our interpretation of the whole of the natural data relating to the age of the Earth and evolution.

One fallible interpretation, preferred over another.

 

[reba]

3- No Bashing of other members. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself.

All posters posting here in the science forum have agreed to the above along with a few more... please keep to the subject matter

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Ok brother, how do I make a 50 ft tree look "young"? How do you create a planet and make it look "young"? Have you ever seen a "young planet" ? Me neither.

That's because they are all REALLY old! lol

We have radiometric dating to prove this too, not just observing by how things "appear."

The planet of eden was complete, perfect, ready for habitation. Food from the trees, top soil and good earth ready for planting. Chickens running around. To an alien just "beamed" in, it would look "old" but it was not. It was just created "ex nihino".

I believe you mean ex nihilo. Regardless, do you not see the deception involved with this.

As it would go down to molecular level with radiometric dating, a rock wouldn't just appear old but the parent to daughter isotopes ratio given the half life of that particular element would indicate a great amount of time has past.

We aren't talking about appearance, something that is subjective, we are talking about physical indications of time that would have to be manipulated.

Even beyond radiometric dating, as YEC are notorious for getting the science wrong on that matter, there is evidence of mass extinction events. How could so many comets have hit the earth and wiped out so much life, in such a short amount of time?

 

[electricaluser]

Someone is deleting posts. Admin??

Either that or "BY THE POWER OF GREY SKULL!"

 

[turnorburn]

"WE" were, you weren't. YOU were discussing God's wrath.

And i was discussing it in relation to the age of the earth and its surroundings.. Before Adam sinned everything was good, brand new good, how would you feel if you were Jesus and had just created this beautiful setting just to have Adam throw it all away? The devil doesn't want man to know our loving creator so he invents a creation story to separate us from him, so I'll ask you, what did creation look like before sin entered?

tob

 

[electricaluser]

Friend. I see this argument allot and I don't understand it. God never I tended a deception! He created, we interpreted. Just because some see an "old earth" and then assume an old earth, does not mean its an old earth! It's only old when you adopte the old earth premise. I beleive its deception yes. Does it mean your going it hell because you beleive an old earth ? No. This issue is not salvation orientated. It does however, strengthen a Christain with the knowlegde that the evidence, science & God are fully in agreement. They are.

I said that I'll never believe in evolution because evolution isn't about belief period. Scientists are not trying to get people to believe in evolution, believing in evolution would be like believing in your microwave when it cooks a potato. Do you really believe that your microwave can cook a potato or do you know it will once you key in the right information?

 

[Barbarian]

They were just creatures. Prior to the coelacanth being dicoered it looked WEIRD! With that tail, it must be "prehistoric" right?

Scientists didn't think so. Diphycercal tails exist in modern fish like lungfish. So that was just a story someone invented and attributed to scientists. Scientists just noted that a formerly successful and diverse group disappeared from numerous environments where they were once plentiful. About a hundred years ago, they found two relict populations of highly-evolved and specially-adapted coelacanths, no longer small and fresh-water, but large, evolved deepwater ocean species.

Wrong! Alive and doing well.

Actually, they are now endangered. An isolated survivor of a once-diverse group, it's dying out.

 

[turnorburn]

That's because they are all REALLY old! lol

We have radiometric dating to prove this too, not just observing by how things "appear."


I believe you mean ex nihilo. Regardless, do you not see the deception involved with this.

As it would go down to molecular level with radiometric dating, a rock wouldn't just appear old but the parent to daughter isotopes ratio given the half life of that particular element would indicate a great amount of time has past.

We aren't talking about appearance, something that is subjective, we are talking about physical indications of time that would have to be manipulated.

Even beyond radiometric dating, as YEC are notorious for getting the science wrong on that matter, there is evidence of mass extinction events. How could so many comets have hit the earth and wiped out so much life, in such a short amount of time?

Wasn't comets did that it was the flood, it took exactly 150 days..

Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

tob

 

[reba]

IF any one wishes to discuss "young earth" with out the constant battle , We have a forum for just that... here is the intro..http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/yec-forum-please-read.39945/

 

[Paloma]

It's all good Reba. Lots of healthly debate here.

 

[Paloma]

Wasn't comets did that it was the flood, it took exactly 150 days..

Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

tob

Imagine a global flood unlike anything you have ever seen. Do you know the damage a flood can do? It's massive. All that mud and sand just swirling for 150 days. Imagine the creatures buried in the slurry.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Wasn't comets did that it was the flood, it took exactly 150 days..

Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

tob

So where do those gigantic craters come from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vredefort_crater

What do you imagine would cause a crater 300km across?

 

[reba]

It's all good Reba. Lots of healthly debate here.

It is only good if we ALL follow the rules...

 

[Barbarian]

God faking evidence for an old Earth would require Him to be dishonest. So that's not a possibility.

 

[turnorburn]

God faking evidence for an old Earth would require Him to be dishonest. So that's not a possibility.

What in the world do you mean by that?

tob

 

[turnorburn]

So where do those gigantic craters come from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vredefort_crater

What do you imagine would cause a crater 300km across?

The same power that caused magma to thrust upwards against the thin skin of the earth and form our mountain ranges, the same power that dropped our northern and southern polar icecaps where they sit today these events took place during the flood..

tob

 

[Paloma]

Scientists didn't think so. Diphycercal tails exist in modern fish like lungfish. So that was just a story someone invented and attributed to scientists. Scientists just noted that a formerly successful and diverse group disappeared from numerous environments where they were once plentiful. About a hundred years ago, they found two relict populations of highly-evolved and specially-adapted coelacanths, no longer small and fresh-water, but large, evolved deepwater ocean species.



Actually, they are now endangered. An isolated survivor of a once-diverse group, it's dying out.

Well, that's one way to interprete it. We have another. She is an isolated survivor, this is true. She is dying out like many species before her. Trex, giant ostrich, Tasmanian tiger—aka- thylacine. The list is endless.

PHOTOGRAPH FROM POPPERFOTO/GETTY IMAGES

 

[Paloma]

God faking evidence for an old Earth would require Him to be dishonest. So that's not a possibility.

Yes, Tob, I concur. This is a most interesting use of words. How is He "faking" evidence for an old world? Just the mere fact that he makes a world, it will "look" old, yet it young, freshly created. How is this dishonest? Really? So if I was capable of miracles, (water into wine) if I did such a miracle, how is it fake? By its very nature, it's a mircle. It will appear odd, against the norm. But that's the point is it not?

 

[Paloma]

So where do those gigantic craters come from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vredefort_crater

What do you imagine would cause a crater 300km across?

There is nothing wrong with isolated meteor impacts happening in the recent or distant past in conjunction with the flood. They would have locally impacted an area and all its creatures. It could be responsible for some fossils and local destruction. Do you think one ( or more) asteroid(s) is responsible for all the fossils on earth? Look what just hit RUSSIA ! These things happen; but just because they happen does not mean the flood did not happen. I think these impacts could have been devistating to large areas but not as much as we've been lead to believe. But, none of us were there, so it's hard to say. Now a global flood would have destroyed everything.

 

[Eugene]

Concerning creation, is there any relevance to Heb 11:3? Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.