How strong is your belief in God?

[Guest]

follower of Christ,

당신ì€ 마지막 낱ë§Âì´ 있어야 한다. ì´것엠당신ìÂËœ 팬ëâ€Â©Ã«Â˜ì–´ ìž ì‘답ì€ 그것ì„ ì¦Â명한다. 나늆당신과 ëÂÂ난다.

 

[follower of Christ]

follower of Christ,

당신ì€ 마지막 낱ë§Âì´ 있어야 한다. ì´것엠당신ìÂËœ 팬ëâ€Â©Ã«Â˜ì–´ 있늆ì‘답ì€ 그것ì„ ì¦Â명한다. 나늆당신과 ëÂÂ난다.

Is that your response to the following ?

Im still looking for an actual response to these...
[quote:3f5iv38a]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
(Heb 11:6)

If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it shall be given to him. But let him ask in faith, doubting nothing, for he that doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he shall receive anything from the Lord;
(Jas 1:5-7)

Oddly enough scripture DEMANDS something that some here say isnt possible...[/quote:3f5iv38a]

 

[Guest]

당신ì€ 마지막 낱ë§Âì´ 있어야 한다. ì´것엠당신ìÂËœ 팬ëâ€Â©Ã«Â˜ì–´ 있늆ì‘답ì€ 그것ì„ ì¦Â명íâ“다. 나늆당신과 ëÂÂ난다.

Allow me to translate it.

You must have the last word. Your pending response to this proves that. I am finished with you.

 

[Vic C.]

LOL, I read the first three pages and jumped right to the last page. I'll tell you why:

You all fell right into the pattern the OP expected from us, excluding two of you. Almost immediately it became a debate and an attack on those two who were honest enough to admit there is a flicker of doubt sometimes. Honestly, I think you all posted what you did in an effort to convince yourselves. Of course, I can't be certain of that. I am certain of one thing; Jesus had doubts at times.

Mat 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Mat 26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Mat 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

We are far less than Jesus and for more prone to have a doubt or two at times, even if it is only for a fleeting moment. Lets not get all textbook and proof texty about this and lets all be honest with ourselves, even if we don't admit it here, in public. God knows your true thoughts and that is what really counts.

 

[follower of Christ]

LOL, I read the first three pages and jumped right to the last page. I'll tell you why:

You all fell right into the pattern the OP expected from us, excluding two of you. Almost immediately it became a debate and an attack on those two who were honest enough to admit there is a flicker of doubt sometimes. Honestly, I think you all posted what you did in an effort to convince yourselves. Of course, I can't be certain of that. I am certain of one thing; Jesus had doubts at times.

Did Jesus have doubts about the existence of the Father ?

Can you explain passages like this *IF* faith is to be riddled with doubt ?

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
(Heb 11:6)

If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it shall be given to him. But let him ask in faith, doubting nothing, for he that doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he shall receive anything from the Lord;
(Jas 1:5-7)

We are far less than Jesus and for more prone to have a doubt or two at times, even if it is only for a fleeting moment. Lets not get all textbook and proof texty about this and lets all be honest with ourselves, even if we don't admit it here, in public. God knows your true thoughts and that is what really counts.

Text proofy ?
How about believing what the preponderance of evidence in scripture shows ? ...that God is not pleased with half heartedness and doubt.

 

[Guest]

Back on topic. I was the individual who chose the third option, but as I mentioned I do not feel the options accurately convey the complexity of my faith.

 

[follower of Christ]

Id like to add, Vic, that Im a bit offended by your insinuation that we must be false if we claim not to doubt His existence. I doubt a LOT of things in life, including whether Ive understood His direction at times, but I do NOT have doubts concerning His existence.
As I said previously, if some here havent delved in deep enough to have that sort of relationship, thats fine, but they are hardly in a position to tell me that I dont REALLY believe what I believe....

LOL, I read the first three pages and jumped right to the last page. I'll tell you why:

You all fell right into the pattern the OP expected from us, excluding two of you. Almost immediately it became a debate and an attack on those two who were honest enough to admit there is a flicker of doubt sometimes. Honestly, I think you all posted what you did in an effort to convince yourselves. Of course, I can't be certain of that. I am certain of one thing; Jesus had doubts at times.

We are far less than Jesus and for more prone to have a doubt or two at times, even if it is only for a fleeting moment. Lets not get all textbook and proof texty about this and lets all be honest with ourselves, even if we don't admit it here, in public. God knows your true thoughts and that is what really counts.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
(Heb 11:6)

 

[inhopeofglory]

I am certain of one thing; Jesus had doubts at times.

I'm a little alarmed that you would say that Jesus had doubts. What, exactly, did He doubt?

"The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." was said to Peter, regarding him falling asleep while Jesus prayed. It wasn't a statement of Jesus' doubt.

"Let this cup pass from Me", equally, is not a statement of doubt. It is a wrestling with the Father, knowing the horror of what is going to take place and recoiling from it.

Similarly, "why have You forsaken Me?" is again a wrestling in the midst of awesome spiritual (and physical) suffering. Surely Jesus, the very Son of God, knew why He was going through the separation from His Father. He wasn't doubting God.

 

[Vic C.]

This will be my last post outside on modding this thread. For clarification purposes, my post was a gut reaction to some of the posts made. I also did not choose in the poll. #1 would be my choice, but the tone of the conversation took a turn that seemed to be an attack those who have doubts concerning their faith. I don't ever think that God doesn't exist, but I do at certain times trust myself instead of trusting God. It's a matter of trust, not a matter of doubt that He exists.

If someone is having a faith crisis, lets build them up and not tear them down. I think that Paul (and Jesus) would agree with that. :yes

 

[JoJo]

I believe in Christ, and I have doubts.

This is my previously supplied answer to your question.

I'm not asking if you believe in Christ. You have already answered that to the best of your ability. So let's try something different. How about multiple choice: Do you have a love relationship with Christ?

A) Yes
B) No

 

[Guest]

Do you have a love relationship with Christ?

I previously posted the following as a response to this question.

Within my perspective, the answer is unequivocally yes. Within your perspective, the answer is either yes and you reject my doubts, or no and you reject my belief. Either way, you have to make the decision from your perspective. Though, I suspect you will say yes. There are others here who will say no.

 

[JoJo]

LOL, I read the first three pages and jumped right to the last page. I'll tell you why:

You all fell right into the pattern the OP expected from us, excluding two of you. Almost immediately it became a debate and an attack on those two who were honest enough to admit there is a flicker of doubt sometimes. Honestly, I think you all posted what you did in an effort to convince yourselves. Of course, I can't be certain of that. I am certain of one thing; Jesus had doubts at times.

Mat 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Mat 26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Mat 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

We are far less than Jesus and for more prone to have a doubt or two at times, even if it is only for a fleeting moment. Lets not get all textbook and proof texty about this and lets all be honest with ourselves, even if we don't admit it here, in public. God knows your true thoughts and that is what really counts.

I am not really concerned about the motives of the OP. But in fact, it saddens me deeply when I hear someone say they believe in Christ, but they still have doubts. Doubts knock at the door, yes, but that doesn't mean you have to answer the door and entertain the doubts, even for a second. I am not really trying to debate anyone on this specific topic...I am trying to get minnesota to open his eyes to the fullness of belief that I believe he may be missing out on.

The fact is logical: if you believe in something, you cannot also carry doubts about it. It is impossible to have a love relationship with someone you don't 100% believe exists.

What concerns me the most is what would happen if God directly asked someone, "Do you believe in Me?" And that someone said, "Yes, but I have doubts." Would God accept this as true belief? THAT IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT HERE. Not my opinion, not debatable statements, but whether God accepts 99.9% belief as genuine.

 

[JoJo]

Do you have a love relationship with Christ?

I previously posted the following as a response to this question.

Within my perspective, the answer is unequivocally yes. Within your perspective, the answer is either yes and you reject my doubts, or no and you reject my belief. Either way, you have to make the decision from your perspective. Though, I suspect you will say yes. There are others here who will say no.

How can you have a love relationship with someone you don't 100% believe exists?

 

[Guest]

How can you have a love relationship with someone you don't 100% believe exists?

Please review, "Spinning Silhouette Optical Illusion." Which way was the silhouette spinning when you first looked?

 

[handy]

It's a good question JoJo, but doubts do creep in sometimes. I answered 1 and without any hesitation, but I can understand where some might hesitate to state emphatically and without reservation that God does indeed exist. Part of this comes from the conditioning we receive to question everything.

For those who did answer 2, consider this:

Colossians 2: 1For I want you to know how great a struggle I have on your behalf and for those who are at Laodicea, and for all those who have not personally seen my face, 2that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God's mystery, that is, Christ Himself, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4I say this so that no one will delude you with persuasive argument.

Full assurance of Christ is available to all Christians. I read from this passage though that not all have attained that level of assurance, but it is available and with that assurance comes a wealth of blessings and gifts.

The world is full of persuasive arguments, hey, this Forum is full of persuasive arguments, and one of the most persuasive is that somehow a Christian can't really state emphatically and with no equivocation that God is and is a rewarder of those who seek Him. But, don't get caught up in that particular delusion, God wants to you be fully assured of not only His existence, but of the wealth of blessings that He has for us.

 

[follower of Christ]

How can you have a love relationship with someone you don't 100% believe exists?

great question.
If I doubted my wife existed I hardly think Id be in a real relationship with her.

 

[JoJo]

It's a good question JoJo, but doubts do creep in sometimes. I answered 1 and without any hesitation, but I can understand where some might hesitate to state emphatically and without reservation that God does indeed exist. Part of this comes from the conditioning we receive to question everything.

Yes, but when we refuse to open the door and entertain the doubts, then we are remaining strong in our faith. I hear the Enemy's whispers now and then, but I immediately recognize them for what they are and shut them off. But this is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about consciously saying, "I believe...but I could be wrong." That is just not belief. That is merely wishful thinking.

 

[cyberjosh]

Should not #1 be the obvious answer on a Christian web-site ??. I know that was mine. :amen

I was expecting #1 to be the answer a Christian desired to give, but would doubt the intellectual honesty of people involved if #1 is far and away the most frequently occurring answer. Truthfully, a 1 or a 7 scares me, as it acknowledges no possibility - even the most miniscule one - that you are wrong. Marking 1 means it has surpassed faith; that it no longer requires faith for you because you know, doesn't it?

Reading things about God second hand from a book and philosophizing about His existence can only force upon you a certain level of certainty approaching 100% (if you infact believe) but just short of it when it comes down to it, but that all changes when you encounter God, and when His Spirit is given, Who does not silently enter your life but which makes its presence known (the Spirit operates in power). Then what was previously based on only intellect and the heart becomes matched by experience and knowledge. One cannot deny experiences and encounters with God, and even the staunchest of atheists would be out of order to off-handedly dismiss the mass of testimony about encounters with God through out human history, from generation to generation, and even (on a somewhat lesser scale) the supernatural in general. In light of those who have encountered God personally it is infact hard to answer anything less than #1. God makes his own existence known, and it can leave no doubt.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[JoJo]

Thank you, Josh.

 

[follower of Christ]

Awesome response, Josh