How To Lose Your Salvation...

[Deborah13]

I don't see any relevance of your point. It sounds like a technicality, that's all.

A technicality? It is a prophecy! About how the gentile nations will be brought in. AND just as important if this prophecy is forever, then the peoples of the nation of Israel are doomed forever!

It's clear that God will do what he did to the people of Israel to any unbelieving gentile, too.

I cannot take a prophecy, especially a precious prophecy such as this one and make it say something it doesn't. Especially when it clearly does not state anything about 'forever'! When it clearly says,
"How long Lord?" Obviously it is not addressing something that is forever.

Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either" (Romans 11:19-21 NASB)

I thought your point was, God turning over people to a reprobate mind. This scripture in Romans does not say that either.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Cut to the chase. Do you believe blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unforgivable, or not? Don't make me untwist what you're doing to the original point.

 

[Deborah13]

Cut to the chase. Do you believe blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unforgivable, or not? Don't make me untwist what you're doing to the original point.

Why do you keep posting to me without referring to me? I might miss them!

See my posts in this thread #2 and #11.

 

[for_his_glory]

My, oh my, oh my!!! Beating around the bush never gives a plain explanation. As for the OP it all boils down to God is a Spirit not of flesh and bone. Gods word made manifest in human form through that of His son Christ Jesus sent to earth to teach us grace who by his obedience to God unto death laid his own life down for us to reconcile ourselves back to God by his free gift of grace that pardons our sin and has now given us of His Spirit once more as a comforter and teacher in that of the Holy Spirit. True blasphemy against that Spirit that is God is what many reject and for this rejection have set their own course to that of the lake of fire being separated from God forever. God would that none should perish as he loves his creation, but yet his creation denies his existence for they lack any knowledge of him, which is their downfall. If it wasn't for Noah none of us would be here to experience the love of God and his intention of creation.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.
Hosea 4:8 They eat up the sin of my people, and they set their heart on their iniquity.
Hosea 4:9 And there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings.

 

[Deborah13]

My, oh my, oh my!!! Beating around the bush never gives a plain explanation. As for the OP it all boils down to God is a Spirit not of flesh and bone. Gods word made manifest in human form through that of His son Christ Jesus sent to earth to teach us grace who by his obedience to God unto death laid his own life down for us to reconcile ourselves back to God by his free gift of grace that pardons our sin and has now given us of His Spirit once more as a comforter and teacher in that of the Holy Spirit. True blasphemy against that Spirit that is God is what many reject and for this rejection have set their own course to that of the lake of fire being separated from God forever. God would that none should perish as he loves his creation, but yet his creation denies his existence for they lack any knowledge of him, which is their downfall. If it wasn't for Noah none of us would be here to experience the love of God and his intention of creation.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.
Hosea 4:8 They eat up the sin of my people, and they set their heart on their iniquity.
Hosea 4:9 And there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings.

I agree, which I posted in #11.
I don't relish restating what other people have already stated in the thread and the OP.
But you have done a nice job.

 

[jasonc]

A technicality? It is a prophecy! About how the gentile nations will be brought in. AND just as important if this prophecy is forever, then the peoples of the nation of Israel are doomed forever!



I cannot take a prophecy, especially a precious prophecy such as this one and make it say something it doesn't. Especially when it clearly does not state anything about 'forever'! When it clearly says,
"How long Lord?" Obviously it is not addressing something that is forever.




I thought your point was, God turning over people to a reprobate mind. This scripture in Romans does not say that either.

but romans one does. lived that when I got saved and fell in love with a man. its not instaneous but its there. do you really want to tell me that I didn't pray hard enough and that I wasn't saved when before that I really didn't believe the bible was complete and jesus was a way but not the way?

 

[Deborah13]

but romans one does. lived that when I got saved and fell in love with a man. its not instaneous but its there. do you really want to tell me that I didn't pray hard enough and that I wasn't saved when before that I really didn't believe the bible was complete and jesus was a way but not the way?

Jason, I did NOT state anything about any other than the scriptures I addressed. So please don't argue with me about something I have never addressed or an issue I never made a statement about.
Show me where I ever made a statement about this issue and I will address that statement. :wink

 

[Jethro Bodine]

See my posts in this thread #2 and #11.

Many Jews committed the unpardonable sin after seeing Jesus' ministry. They will not be pardoned later. DIFFERENT Jews will come to faith and trust in Christ and be grafted back into the vine. The sentence pronounced on those Jews living at the time of Christ is permanent.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jason, I did NOT state anything about any other than the scriptures I addressed. So please don't argue with me about something I have never addressed or an issue I never made a statement about.
Show me where I ever made a statement about this issue and I will address that statement. :wink

Jason is right.

Romans 1 is actually where the point I've been addressing is probably most clearly known in scripture:

"18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness..." (Romans 1:18 NASB)

"21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened." (Romans 1:21 NASB)

"24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them." (Romans 1:24 NASB)

Being turned over to the lie and away from the truth is a judgment that happens in this life. You don't have to die to be guilty of the sin of blasphemy (when being turned over to sin is because of that).

 

[Deborah13]

Jason is right.

Romans 1 is actually where the point I've been addressing is probably most clearly known in scripture:

"18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness..." (Romans 1:18 NASB)
"21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened." (Romans 1:21 NASB)

"24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them." (Romans 1:24 NASB)

Being turned over to the lie and away from the truth is a judgment that happens in this life. You don't have to die to be guilty of the sin of blasphemy (when being turned over to sin is because of that).

I have Not made any statement about what I think about the Romans scripture or any scripture other than the one I quoted and I posted about.
Find one of my posts that is addressing this and I will address it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I thought your point was, God turning over people to a reprobate mind. This scripture in Romans does not say that either.

Hmmm....Me thinks this said Romans 2 yesterday.

 

[Deborah13]

Many Jews committed the unpardonable sin after seeing Jesus' ministry. They will not be pardoned later. DIFFERENT Jews will come to faith and trust in Christ and be grafted back into the vine. The sentence pronounced on those Jews living at the time of Christ is permanent.

??
You quoted my post that says #2 and #11 posts. Neither of these posts even mention the Jews.

 

[Deborah13]

Hmmm....Me thinks this said Romans 2 yesterday.

Hmm.... me thinks not....

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them." (Romans 1:24 NASB)
Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either" (Romans 11:19-21 NASB)

Can't find a post about Romans 2.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

??
You quoted my post that says #2 and #11 posts. Neither of these posts even mention the Jews.

And there is no reason for you to have then made a distinction between Jew and gentile in response to my post.

God turning the capacity off to see and know truth in a person is universal. What happened to the Christ rejecting Jews who chose not to acknowledge the revelation of the Christ by the Holy Spirit will happen to the gentile who does the same thing. God will turn the gentile over to that decision so that they can't acknowledge the truth just as he did the Jew.

"...walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind,18 being darkened in their understanding,excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart;19 and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness." (Ephesians 4:17-19 NASB)

And he doesn't allow them to be given over so they can come to their senses and be saved. If you persist in the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit to the point that God turns you over to your decision to reject the truth there is no coming back. It's unforgivable. He did that to make that person's damnation sure:

"...with all power and signs and false wonders,10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness." (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 NASB)

 

[handy]

OK.. I'm just going to wade right in here and probably deal with things already said and points already made. Here goes:

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not dying in a state of unbelief. I think people think that dying in a state of unbelief must be the "unpardonable sin" because, once dead there isn't any turning back. But, the only difference between a sinner who dies in unbelief and the saint who dies in grace, is that the sinner will be judged according to their sins and the saint will be covered by the blood of Christ. Blasphemy of the Spirit is different. It is someone who had the Spirit reveal truth, clear and undeniable truth...and reject it.

In order to fully understand just what blasphemy of the Spirit is, we need to remind ourselves of the work of the Spirit. We are saved via the work of the Spirit. Salvation is not of belief alone, (as the demons and Satan believe in Christ)...salvation comes by the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives.

#1 necessity in blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is that it starts with a work of the Holy Spirit. Not a miracle of Jesus, not a good sermon that stirs the soul, not a reading of the Bible in which a truth jumps out... but an act of the Holy Spirit in which the Spirit reveals truth in a way that is undeniable... and then to deny it.

I am always reminded of Pharaoh when thinking of this subject. Pharaoh hardened his heart against God a number of times...but then there came the time when Pharaoh made a clear confession of faith. He said, "Then Pharaoh sent for Moses and Aaron, and said to them, “I have sinned this time; the Lord is the righteous one, and I and my people are the wicked ones. Make supplication to the Lord, for there has been enough of God’s thunder and hail; and I will let you go, and you shall stay no longer.” Exodus 9:27-28

Pharaoh could not have made that statement, "the Lord is the righteous one" without a work of the Spirit within his heart. That is the work of the Spirit... to reveal to us God's righteousness. This is not something we can come to by our own understanding. So, once Pharaoh received that understanding, by the work of the Spirit and then rejected it, hardening his heart once more... he passed the point of no return. From then on out, the record clearly states that God hardened Pharaoh's heart. His sin was the same that Jesus spoke of concerning the Pharisees who were saying that Jesus was working by the power of the devil. Jesus was warning that once the Spirit reveals God's work to us, if we reject that... if we attribute the work to Satan, to coincidence, to our own understanding, then we pass the point of no return.

Jesus knew the thoughts of the Pharisees and scribes who were saying He was casting out demons by the power of Satan. We need to keep that fact firmly in mind...that He knew their very thoughts. He knew whether or not the Spirit had revealed the truth about Him to them. He knew whether or not they understood that He was from God...and, knowing their thoughts and knowing the full extent of the Spirit's revelation to them...He gave them the sternest rebuke there is.

 

[Deborah13]

I have never considered that God has not revealed Himself to all men in a way that they could not know Him as the risen Lord and Savior.

But I see your point as you stated,
"but an act of the Holy Spirit in which the Spirit reveals truth in a way that is undeniable... and then to deny it."
This is a deliberate act. Not about lack of understanding or weak faith etc.

 

[handy]

I have never considered that God has not revealed Himself to all men in a way that they could not know Him as the risen Lord and Savior.

But I see your point as you stated,
"but an act of the Holy Spirit in which the Spirit reveals truth in a way that is undeniable... and then to deny it."
This is a deliberate act. Not about lack of understanding or weak faith etc.

I believe that the Spirit will help reveal God to all who seek Him. I think that's at the heart of texts like Acts 17:27. And, as Romans 1 tells us, creation itself give evidence of God.

Groping for God, even though He's not that far away from any of us, or passively seeing God's invisible attributes, are done by those who are seeking but without understanding. Keep in mind that Paul was speaking to the Athenians at the time, people who were spiritually minded, but ignorant of God. Ignoring the signs might be part of the sins of omission/commission that a person will be judged for if they die outside of grace.

However, blasphemy of the Spirit is that one (or two) step beyond. Blasphemy of the Spirit is indeed a deliberate act...done with full understanding, because it was the Spirit Himself Who gave that understanding.