Husbands Are Not To Worship Their Wives.

[Jacob62]

Galatians 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female—for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

So much for an incorrect, chauvinist interpretation of Scripture.

Paul made a mistake. But, that is okay since his writings were identified by Peter as "wisdom," rather than The Word of God.

Remember, Jesus clearly distinguished between Jews and Gentiles. He was send first to the Jews, and never to the Gentiles. The Gentiles had to be adopted, and ingrafted.

Jesus was so proactive about women, He specifically did not make any of them Apostles.

Regards.

 

[stovebolts]

Why is the entire length of Scripture patriarchal, where women are classed as property?

I'm not so sure about that. Please post from the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers,Deuteronomy) where women are classed as property.

Why did Jesus not speak against Mosaic Law which never treated women as equal to men? Because Mosaic Law established the Principle of Patriarchal Authority and Rule.

In many areas, women are held in very high regard within Torah. Please describe what you mean as 'Equal' and provide a biblical example from Torah.

I do not see women as equal to men, nor do I see men as equal to women. Each one serves a specific function and purpose. By design women and men are created different and therefore are not equal. For example, men cannot bear children, nor nurse children to which I am personally thankful for.

When we look at the NT writings, we do not see a command for women to love their husbands. Instead, we see the command for the woman to respect her husband. In the same manner, we do not see a command for the husband to respect his wife. Instead, we see the command for the man to love his wife.

I would encourage you and anyone else to check out Love & Respect by Dr. Emerson and Sarah Eggerichs for a well rounded and biblical view of the roles of men and women.

Love & Respect

Sign up now for weekly, monthly and yearly content plus an archive of over a thousand videos, podcasts, articles, ask emerson, collections and courses covering topics on marriage, parenting, and the Christian life.

www.loveandrespect.com

 

[stovebolts]

Paul made a mistake. But, that is okay since his writings were identified by Peter as "wisdom," rather than The Word of God.

So you are saying that we should take your words over Paul? I don't think so...

Remember, Jesus clearly distinguished between Jews and Gentiles. He was send first to the Jews, and never to the Gentiles. The Gentiles had to be adopted, and ingrafted.

Jesus had many good things to say about the Gentiles he came into contact with.
When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Jesus was so proactive about women, He specifically did not make any of them Apostles.

And this does not make women inferior to men.
Jesus elevates women. For instance, it was a woman who found the empty tomb and first speaks with the risen Christ. It was a gentile woman who is commended on her faith, it is a woman who is brought back into community after she is healed from bleeding, it is a woman who anoints Jesus before his death. The list goes on.

 

[Jacob62]

I'm not so sure about that. Please post from the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers,Deuteronomy) where women are classed as property.


In many areas, women are held in very high regard within Torah. Please describe what you mean as 'Equal' and provide a biblical example from Torah.

I do not see women as equal to men, nor do I see men as equal to women. Each one serves a specific function and purpose. By design women and men are created different and therefore are not equal. For example, men cannot bear children, nor nurse children to which I am personally thankful for.

When we look at the NT writings, we do not see a command for women to love their husbands. Instead, we see the command for the woman to respect her husband. In the same manner, we do not see a command for the husband to respect his wife. Instead, we see the command for the man to love his wife.

I would encourage you and anyone else to check out Love & Respect by Dr. Emerson and Sarah Eggerichs for a well rounded and biblical view of the roles of men and women.

Love & Respect

Sign up now for weekly, monthly and yearly content plus an archive of over a thousand videos, podcasts, articles, ask emerson, collections and courses covering topics on marriage, parenting, and the Christian life.

www.loveandrespect.com

Are you married? To a woman? How long? We would like to see if you understand women. I would encourage you to be transparent in your witness.

 

[stovebolts]

Are you married? To a woman? How long? We would like to see if you understand women. I would encourage you to be transparent in your witness.

Yes, I am happily married and for some time now.
Instead of redirecting questions toward me, let us discuss scripture. You made a few accusations about what Scripture says about women. Yet you have not provided any passages to support your view.
The burden is on you to support what you claim as your biblical assertions in regard to women. I look forward to your reply.

 

[Jacob62]

So you are saying that we should take your words over Paul? I don't think so...

Jesus had many good things to say about the Gentiles he came into contact with.
When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.


And this does not make women inferior to men.
Jesus elevates women. For instance, it was a woman who found the empty tomb and first speaks with the risen Christ. It was a gentile woman who is commended on her faith, it is a woman who is brought back into community after she is healed from bleeding, it is a woman who anoints Jesus before his death. The list goes on.

I would encourage you to look to the Word of God and His exmple before taking Paul as a final authority.

Two instances are not "many." Lol. Exaggeration demonstrates only an active agenda.

As well, imagining I have used the word "inferior" to describe women is a dishonesty on your part. Are you enough to confess? Thinking how "things just sound" instead of using stated words is what a certain gender errs with?

Just as it is not an insult to call a child a child, or a dog a dog, it is not an insult to call a woman a woman. It is to follow Jesus' Word in Scripture to regards women as did He.

"Woman, what have I to do with you? Mine hour has not yet come."
"Who is my mother? ... Behold!"
"It is not meet to take the children's bread and cast it to the dogs."
"Martha, Martha, you are troubled about many things."
"Give me to drink."

Jesus was blunt and direct upon every woman to whom He spoke, correcting both their mental and behavioral errors. Have women changed? Do they still need supervision upon their natural endeavors?

 

[stovebolts]

I would encourage you to look to the Word of God and His exmple before taking Paul as a final authority.

Two instances are not "many." Lol. Exaggeration demonstrates only an active agenda.

As well, imagining I have used the word "inferior" to describe women is a dishonesty on your part. Are you enough to confess? Thinking how "things just sound" instead of using stated words is what a certain gender errs with?

Just as it is not an insult to call a child a child, or a dog a dog, it is not an insult to call a woman a woman. It is to follow Jesus' Word in Scripture to regards women as did He.

"Woman, what have I to do with you? Mine hour has not yet come."
"Who is my mother? ... Behold!"
"It is not meet to take the children's bread and cast it to the dogs."
"Martha, Martha, you are troubled about many things."
"Give me to drink."

Jesus was blunt and direct upon every woman to whom He spoke, correcting both their mental and behavioral errors. Have women changed? Do they still need supervision upon their natural endeavors?

All of this and yet no scriptural basis for your opening OP. Please provide scripture from the Torah supporting your initial post.

Why is the entire length of Scripture patriarchal, where women are classed as property?

Scripture please (from Torah) This infers women are inferior to men.

Why did Jesus not speak against Mosaic Law which never treated women as equal to men? Because Mosaic Law established the Principle of Patriarchal Authority and Rule.

Please describe how women are not equal to men from the perspective of Torah.
Please provide scripture from Torah to support your assertion on the Patriarchal authority and rule over women. (as property) This infers women are inferior to men.

Jesus never stated "In Me Is No Male or Female." Rather, at every instance where He interacted with women, He put them in their place, including His own mother.

What do you mean by "every instance" and "put them in their place" . This infers women are inferior to men.
Please provide scripture for your assertions.

 

[Jacob62]

I'm not so sure about that. Please post from the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers,Deuteronomy) where women are classed as property.


In many areas, women are held in very high regard within Torah. Please describe what you mean as 'Equal' and provide a biblical example from Torah.

I do not see women as equal to men, nor do I see men as equal to women. Each one serves a specific function and purpose. By design women and men are created different and therefore are not equal. For example, men cannot bear children, nor nurse children to which I am personally thankful for.

When we look at the NT writings, we do not see a command for women to love their husbands. Instead, we see the command for the woman to respect her husband. In the same manner, we do not see a command for the husband to respect his wife. Instead, we see the command for the man to love his wife.

I would encourage you and anyone else to check out Love & Respect by Dr. Emerson and Sarah Eggerichs for a well rounded and biblical view of the roles of men and women.

Love & Respect

Sign up now for weekly, monthly and yearly content plus an archive of over a thousand videos, podcasts, articles, ask emerson, collections and courses covering topics on marriage, parenting, and the Christian life.

www.loveandrespect.com

Women in the Torah are not held in very high regard. They are honored when they know how to comply with authority, when they do not overstep their natural capacities, when they are good wives, and when they are an asset to the family.

Giving women the rights they have does not speak of any high regard, just an appropriate regard. On a correct understanding, the leadership and authority of Godly Men on the Torah confers an actual high regard.

Thanks for your wonderful comments.

 

[stovebolts]

Women in the Torah are not held in very high regard. They are honored when they know how to comply with authority, when they do not overstep their natural capacities, when they are good wives, and when they are an asset to the family.

Scripture please.

Giving women the rights they have does not speak of any high regard, just an appropriate regard. On a correct understanding, the leadership and authority of Godly Men on the Torah confers an actual high regard.

Scripture please.

 

[Jacob62]

Scripture please.

Scripture please.

Yes, Thank you for graciously demanding compliance.

I regrettably misspoke the compliance and capacities of Torah women to be as property, and I have offended you. They are not property, and certainly are all which they present to be. With rights.

Fortunately, for us today the Divine Wisdom of Paul clears the issue. "Wives submit yourselves into your husbands, as unto the Lord." The Lord requires requisite compliance. Yes, husbands are to love their wives "as themselves," even as the wives insist on receiving better treatment than do men. Lol.

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjugation." The phrase "optional subjugation" is intentionally not used. Praise God for this wisdom.

Let's rejoice for God's precise Word, and let it operate as intended. Amen.

 

[Jacob62]

So you are saying that we should take your words over Paul? I don't think so...

Jesus had many good things to say about the Gentiles he came into contact with.
When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.


And this does not make women inferior to men.
Jesus elevates women. For instance, it was a woman who found the empty tomb and first speaks with the risen Christ. It was a gentile woman who is commended on her faith, it is a woman who is brought back into community after she is healed from bleeding, it is a woman who anoints Jesus before his death. The list goes on.

He elevated them as much as possible as helpers and messengers. They are crucial in that regard. Yes, they do pray.

 

[jaybo]

I see you answered a question I did not ask. Both genders receiving the same commission from Jesus does not make them equal in their abilities, nature, or commission. The text of Mark 16:14-18 was spoken by Jesus only to the eleven male Apostles. Read God's Word for yourself.

Being equal in Hell does not prove equality before Hell. Those you mentioned were only two of what you confidently said were a "few." Talk some more.

regards.

The "long ending" of Mark's gospel is not considered to be authentic but added later, perhaps by an overzealous scribe. So it probably wasn't spoken to anyone. Read God's true word for yourself.

 

[jaybo]

Women only know how to chat. Facts and principles evade them, unless they happen to emotionally approve of one or two.

Yes, God does bless them for what they can do.

Thanks for sharing.

This is absurd. Women are capable of doing everything not requiring maximum physical strength. Facts and principles are as natural to women as men. Sexism is a grievous sin!

 

[stovebolts]

I regrettably misspoke the compliance and capacities of Torah women to be as property, and I have offended you. They are not property, and certainly are all which they present to be. With rights.

Perhaps you should do a study on women of the Torah. It may assist you in better understanding Paul's writings.

Fortunately, for us today the Divine Wisdom of Paul clears the issue. "Wives submit yourselves into your husbands, as unto the Lord." The Lord requires requisite compliance. Yes, husbands are to love their wives "as themselves," even as the wives insist on receiving better treatment than do men. Lol.

Earlier you said Paul was wrong. Why do you now say Paul is right? And why do you believe women insist on receiving better treatment than men? Where is this founded in Scripture?
Torah has much to say about Women and their role. Paul was very well versed in Torah and knew it well. Everything Paul speaks is referenced from Torah, Scripture or the Prophets. These three categories comprise what we call the Old Testament. Scripture and the Prophets are grounded through Torah and will always have a reference to Torah.
So if you want to know what Paul is saying, it can be found in the writings contained within Torah, Scriptures and the Prophets.

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjugation." The phrase "optional subjugation" is intentionally not used. Praise God for this wisdom.

Again, an ill informed understanding of Torah, Scriptures and the Prophets will inevitably cause one to stumble when they read this passage through a modern american 21st century lens.

Let's rejoice for God's precise Word, and let it operate as intended. Amen.

How can we rejoice when we speak of opinion, and not God's word?

 

[stovebolts]

He elevated them as much as possible as helpers and messengers. They are crucial in that regard. Yes, they do pray.

Please provide an example from Torah.

 

[jaybo]

The thread title says "husbands are not to worship their wives." I'm not sure where that idea came from, but it certainly makes no sense according to Scripture.

 

[Jacob62]

The "long ending" of Mark's gospel is not considered to be authentic but added later, perhaps by an overzealous scribe. So it probably wasn't spoken to anyone. Read God's true word for yourself.

Woops. Looks like the Great Commission was eliminated by human feelings and probably.

A common understanding is that anyone can read the Torah for themself.

Blessings.

 

[Jacob62]

Please provide an example from Torah.

The Torah has women doing little more than being helpers to husbands, doing things in a Bronze Age dwelling, making children, lying, going along with normal ideas unless they had some emotional problem with it, worshipping false God's, dancing with timbrels, and interfering with God's Word.

Examples;
Eve slammed the World into sin, Solomon's heathen wives brought Canaanite worship, Rachel lied about stealing Laban's gods, Miriam and the girls danced around after the Red Sea crossing, Sarah desecrated God's seed covenant with Abraham for a holy seed line, the chunky young girl keeping King David warm at night.

Yes, wonderful exceptions are there like Deborah, ingenious Abigail, others. But God has not wanted us to look at those few exceptions of constructive female activity in order to make those exceptions seem like trends. A balanced approach to the Torah is best.

Thanks for your work of Biblical study on these matters. Glad to do what I can to help.

(BTW, chapters and verses were not originally used in the Torah.)

Regards.

 

[jaybo]

The Torah has women doing little more than being helpers to husbands, doing things in a Bronze Age dwelling, making children, lying, going along with normal ideas unless they had some emotional problem with it, worshipping false God's, dancing with timbrels, and interfering with God's Word.

Examples;
Eve slammed the World into sin, Solomon's heathen wives brought Canaanite worship, Rachel lied about stealing Laban's gods, Miriam and the girls danced around after the Red Sea crossing, Sarah desecrated God's seed covenant with Abraham for a holy seed line, the chunky young girl keeping King David warm at night.

Yes, wonderful exceptions are there like Deborah, ingenious Abigail, others. But God has not wanted us to look at those few exceptions of constructive female activity in order to make those exceptions seem like trends. A balanced approach to the Torah is best.

Thanks for your work of Biblical study on these matters. Glad to do what I can to help.

(BTW, chapters and verses were not originally used in the Torah.)

Regards.

Thank God that we're not living in the bronze age! Even though you're into sexism, there is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus.

BTW, do you realize that we have moved beyond Torah? Jesus is the Living Word.

 

[stovebolts]

Examples;
Eve slammed the World into sin, Solomon's heathen wives brought Canaanite worship, Rachel lied about stealing Laban's gods, Miriam and the girls danced around after the Red Sea crossing, Sarah desecrated God's seed covenant with Abraham for a holy seed line.

And King David had sex with a married woman and then had her husband murdered. That isn’t how God wants his people to behave.

Listen, the Bible is full of people not acting in accordance with Gods will. It shows us all have sinned.

We can sit here all day long and throw rocks at by biblical figures and even ourselves. But just because we find genuine issues of behavior in the Bible doesn’t mean God approves.

Let’s talk about how God views women and his instruction to men on how we are to both view and treat them. Only then can we look at our own inadequacies and strive to be better people.

Right now you have not shown any passage to support your opening statement. Your opening statement at this point is simply chit chat and not founded on Biblical instruction.