I am a JW, why should I consider becoming a C

[Steve76]

Hmm....but.. :bigfrown

Matthew 24:24 (King James Version)

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

JW have been reproved to have major false-doctrines and perversions of the Word of God and unfortunately for them, are being deceived.

Think of it this way - Not everyone who wears camouflage is in the army.. ;)




http://getwiththeword.blogspot.com/

 

[Bick]

Wrong, my friend, Christianity has never been referred to as Satanic by Jehovah's Witness.
and we all worship Christ and God just as much as you do.
We have the Bible as evidence!!

I don't know what your Bible says but all Christian Bibles say that Jesus is our high priest and is God

“Such a high priest as this was suitable for us, loyal, guileless, undefiled, separated from the sinners, and become higher than the heavens.â€Ââ€â€Heb. 7:26.
That is fron NWT... Yes Jesus is High Priest but not The God, (a god or lesser deity)

John 1:1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

Jehovah is YHWH, just as much is Pedro to Peter, Miguel to Michael.

Each language has their own way of saying is even Spanish say Jesus but as 'Hesoos'
Yahweh is common also, not a good argument for me on this oneMisfit,

If Adam never sinned and Eve were in harmony wih God what then,
I tell you what then, Cain and Abel would of been best buddies and they will still be alive even now, with a perfect paradise earth, cultivated by their sinless perfect offspring and offspring.
That IS God's purpose and WILL be God's purpose, Humans were designed to live on Earth forever and not go to Heaven. - BIBLICAL FACT

MY COMMENTS: You may worship God (Jehovah) but how can you say you worship Christ Jesus, when we know that "only God is to be worshipped"? Since you say Christ isn't the Son of God?

And how are you saved? Is it by believing that the blood of the crucified Christ was shed to take away the sin of the world?

 

[micaela]

Did they know the real Bible or their "bible?"

Which one of their bibles? Jehovah's Witnesses own printing rights to other different bible translations, including King James Version and they are encouraged to be familiar with other translations.

 

[Mike]

My perception is that JW's and Mormons cloak themselves as Christians when they want to persuade Christians into considering their pitch. I've seen someone a few times earlier giving praise to them for their zeal. That would be great if they weren't so very deceived by their cult. They like the Mormons excommunicate members who convert. Wow! If I had a friend or family member who became convinced of their heresy, I would never stop trying to love them back to the Truth.

One problem is that they have been brainwashed into submission is the lack of understanding of the Trinity which their organization will not allow them to consider. I understand it can be hard to get your hands around as a Christian, but we can't dwell on the "how", just the "is". As long as they refuse to consider the Trinity, this will be a stumbling block.

As someone clearly and effectively stated, it's impossible to discuss scripture with someone who has their own re-worded book. It is tragic that so many Christians don't take the time to learn about the doctrines behind the names "JW" and "Mormon". Another great point is what defines a "prophet". If a "prophet's" prophecy is false, that ends it for them. And as pointed out earlier, they had the end coming over and over. They just kept changing the date when it didn't happen as "prophesied".

 

[jasoncran]

as a former jw the tract society doesnt allow or encourage the jw reading the bible by itself. he or she must be instructed on what the bible says.

 

[John]

Did they know the real Bible or their "bible?"

Which one of their bibles? Jehovah's Witnesses own printing rights to other different bible translations, including King James Version and they are encouraged to be familiar with other translations.

Micaela. Misfit was banned some time ago and therefore will not be able to answear any questions.

 

[Mohrb]

1: to the OP: JWs are Christian. Anyone who follows the teachings of Christ are Christians, and JWs do so to the best of their ability. Just like all denominations of Christianity. Of course, where there is disagreement, one group may be more accurate in their following of Christ than the other... but to ask "Why should a JW become Christian" is rather intellectually dishonest.

2: Proving the validity/invalidity of a given translation of the bible based on whether it matches the popular opinion is fallacious. A translation can only be considered "accurate" or "inaccurate" by how accurately it's translated (Seems logical, right?). If you're going to point to John 1:1 and state "it should be translated THIS way, not THAT way" ... try supporting your statement based on an informed understanding of the actual Greek. Any other argument is sort of a waste.

3: I'm disappointed in how "Christians" are so hostile sometimes. This seems to be nothing but an attack thread. "pick on the minority that won't likely be defended" ... not a very "Christian" attitude, if you ask me.

 

[Mohrb]

Also... since so much emphasis is being placed on the translation of the bibles JWs use... Realize the JWs used the KJV up until the 60's, when the NWT was translated. And today, they still very often use other translations when quoting scripture in their publications. Realistically, the only "difference" between the NWT and most bibles is John 1:1 and the restoration of the Father's name, which the KJV removed nearly 7000 times (but left in 4 times).

As far as John 1:1 goes... no, there is no "word for an indefinite article" in the greek of John 1:1. In english, it's assumed to be definite unless specified with an indefinite article. However, in greek, it's assumed to be indefinite unless specified with a definite article (for example, "ho logos" was with "ton theon" and "theos" was "ho logos")... the lack of definite article suggests an indefinite connotation. Beyond the fact that "theos" is anarthrous... it also happens to be in it's nominative predicate form. I.e. Qualitative.

Look for yourself in an interlinear (such as "Scriptures4all")... "Ho logos"(accusative) was with "ton theon"(accusative), and "theos"(anarthrous -nominative- predicate) was "ho logos" (accusative).

... stating that "The word was a god" or "the word was divine" or "the word was qualitatively like YHWH" are all plausible translations... and over 50 translations express it this way.

 

[Mike]

Also... since so much emphasis is being placed on the translation of the bibles JWs use... Realize the JWs used the KJV up until the 60's, when the NWT was translated. And today, they still very often use other translations when quoting scripture in their publications. Realistically, the only "difference" between the NWT and most bibles is John 1:1 and the restoration of the Father's name, which the KJV removed nearly 7000 times (but left in 4 times).

As far as John 1:1 goes... no, there is no "word for an indefinite article" in the greek of John 1:1. In english, it's assumed to be definite unless specified with an indefinite article. However, in greek, it's assumed to be indefinite unless specified with a definite article (for example, "ho logos" was with "ton theon" and "theos" was "ho logos")... the lack of definite article suggests an indefinite connotation. Beyond the fact that "theos" is anarthrous... it also happens to be in it's nominative predicate form. I.e. Qualitative.

Look for yourself in an interlinear (such as "Scriptures4all")... "Ho logos"(accusative) was with "ton theon"(accusative), and "theos"(anarthrous -nominative- predicate) was "ho logos" (accusative).

... stating that "The word was a god" or "the word was divine" or "the word was qualitatively like YHWH" are all plausible translations... and over 50 translations express it this way.

Mohrb, I'm glad you picked this thread up.

This is something I posed in a Mormon thread. JW's separate themselves often as much as Christians. I'll ask you the same thing I asked them. When I 'm visited by JW's, or if I'm talking to those that I've worked with, they never stop trying to convert me when I say that I'm a Christian and live my life for Christ. The people at my door, especially, continue their efforts as if I said I was an atheist. Why would that be if you believe we are but different denominations? I'm Lutheran and would never try to convince a Baptist, Methodist or non-denominational Christian to change to my denomination, and I have NEVER been asked to do this by them.

I have a friend who was excommunicated by the JW church for converting to Christianity and says it is the policy of JW's. I believe it is actually you who are being intellectually dishonest by attempting to draw similarities where it meets your purpose but secluding yourself from those in the biblical Christian faith. Different versions of the Bible might word things differently, but JW's use their own bible re-worded, and taking words out to be consistent with their beliefs. Having your "own book" is one of the criteria of a cult. In no Christian denomination is a certain version of the Bible strictly used by them.

 

[Mohrb]

Hey mj! I don't mind giving my input:

1: JWs to believe that most of Christendom believe themselves to be Christian... however, there are a few things popular to "orthodox Christianity" that JWs believe are not biblical at all. For example, At John 14:28, Jesus directly states "the Father is greater than I." Most orthodox denominations ignore this in favor of scriptures that they believe infers a trinity. JWs don't care what translation you prefer, but strongly encourage people to study the bible and come to an accurate understanding. The goal of a JW's ministry isn't "to convert lots of people." But to get people to read/study their bibles. After doing so, you may want to attend meetings to get more accurate bible information, and everyone's welcome to. However, people knocking on your door are just trying to get you to study the bible... not some cheap "conversion." The reason they offer other publications is simply to give you some interesting topics to get you going.

This is why stating your denomination isn't going to stop us from encouraging further bible study. Whatever denomination you have, people can -always- benefit from reading the bible more. I've put tens of thousands of hours into my study/ministry, and just last week I came across a scripture that I found new meaning in. (I got a new appreciation for Matthew 23)

2: BTW, JWs use the term "disfellowship" rather than "excommunicate." "Excommunication" is a catholic term where a person is permanently kicked out of the church and damned to eternal hellfire. "Disfellowshipping" happens when someone willfully commits some serious sin and remains unrepentant. Such people essentially just have their membership to the congregation revoked as long as they remain unrepentant. However, they can be fully reinstated at any point by simply stopping whatever dangerous action they've taken (for example, if a person habitually uses drugs, he would receive counseling as long as he's willing to TRY to stop. However, if he shows no remorse for his dangerous actions, he may be disfellowshipped until he kicks the drugs).

3: If your friend simply left the JW congregation and went somewhere else, she's disassociated herself... Just means she left. Now, one complication to that is that JWs believe that Christ instructs all of his followers to be ministers. Therefore, part of baptism is a member's ordination into the ministry (which is why there are over 7 million ordained JW ministers, compared to only 400,000 catholic ministers). If she was a baptized, ordained minister... but rejected our teachings and went to a denomination with incompatible teachings... That could result in her no longer being considered a JW minister. However, I'm sure that if a Lutheran minister rejected the concept of the trinity and believed 1 Corinthians 8:6 "There is for us only one God, the Father" ... he would likely no longer be considered a "Lutheran minister" either.

4: I'm not sure what you mean by "having your own book is a criteria for being a JW" ... The NWT is the JW's "official bible" simply for the sake of organization. During JW meetings, people are encouraged to follow along and a LOT of scriptures are read. If everyone brought different translations, it would simply be difficult to follow along. However, I HAVE seen talks given entirely using different translations. And, the JW publications often use other translations. JWs simply prefer the NWT because it's one of the few translations (The "Bible in Basic English" is another good one) that does not exclude the Father from his own book, by translating the Father's personal name: "Jehovah" as the title "LORD." JWs think it's pretty rude to edit God out of his own book. One interesting note is that the KJV (which the JWs used until the '60s) includes the name "Jehovah" 4 times in scripture... then, the "New KJV" edits even these four out. Which is why you get such charming quotes as "My name is LORD" ... which is a cause for a LOT of confusion among the orthodox Christian community. While the divine name appears in the hebrew text over 6800 times... most Christians don't even know who "Jehovah" is (apart from us knocking on their doors).

 

[Mike]

1: JWs to believe that most of Christendom believe themselves to be Christian... however, there are a few things popular to "orthodox Christianity" that JWs believe are not biblical at all. For example, At John 14:28, Jesus directly states "the Father is greater than I." Most orthodox denominations ignore this in favor of scriptures that they believe infers a trinity. JWs don't care what translation you prefer, but strongly encourage people to study the bible and come to an accurate understanding. The goal of a JW's ministry isn't "to convert lots of people." But to get people to read/study their bibles. After doing so, you may want to attend meetings to get more accurate bible information, and everyone's welcome to. However, people knocking on your door are just trying to get you to study the bible... not some cheap "conversion." The reason they offer other publications is simply to give you some interesting topics to get you going.

Mohrb, thank you for your straight forward response! :yes
A few more things here. I asked if JW's consider themselves Christian, why do you separate yourselves, and the first thing you do (besides your gracious opening line) as begin saying how a major tenet of yours is in conflict with biblical Christians. There are many threads that revolve around the Trinity, so I won't get into detail here. I will say that while Christians may differ the word "Trinity", JW's separate themselves as an exclusive group in using the verse you quoted to say Jesus is lesser than the Father. There are plenty of verses that imply otherwise, but again that's for another discussion. So, totopic , sorry. To say they, when they visit my house, want us simply to look into the Word more is not what I hear. I said I tell them "I'm a Christian and live my life for Christ." "If" we are all within Christianity as you say, my response would be: Fantastic, Brother!" Maybe, "Do you have a home church?". If they do, then possibly, "Are you in a Bible study?", because we believe that's important in addition to attending church. They don't inquire about any of this to see if we are studying His Word. They are assuming we don't, and trying to convince us to attend their meetings would definitely appear to me to be an effort to persuade us into the JW church.

This is why stating your denomination isn't going to stop us from encouraging further bible study. Whatever denomination you have, people can -always- benefit from reading the bible more. I've put tens of thousands of hours into my study/ministry, and just last week I came across a scripture that I found new meaning in. (I got a new appreciation for Matthew 23)

Then, your first step would be to find out how deeply they are in the Word instead of assuming they aren't. If they aren't, your explanation would make more sense. Since you don't, your motives are quite clear.

2: BTW, JWs use the term "disfellowship" rather than "excommunicate." "Excommunication" is a catholic term where a person is permanently kicked out of the church and damned to eternal hellfire. "Disfellowshipping" happens when someone willfully commits some serious sin and remains unrepentant. Such people essentially just have their membership to the congregation revoked as long as they remain unrepentant. However, they can be fully reinstated at any point by simply stopping whatever dangerous action they've taken (for example, if a person habitually uses drugs, he would receive counseling as long as he's willing to TRY to stop. However, if he shows no remorse for his dangerous actions, he may be disfellowshipped until he kicks the drugs).

Sorry if I used the wrong technical term, but he said he is not allowed to attend even social events unless he actually returns to the JW church. You say he can return to the church if he stops his dangerous action, but from my perspective he's not involved in a dangerous action. I wouldn't consider it "dangerous" if someone in my Lutheran Church became a member of a Baptist Church. My friend simply accepted biblical Christianity. You've gone into his situation in the next paragraph, so I'll come back to this. I will say, if someone were to convert to JW, we would invite him back, and back, and back... making every effort to lovingly guide him back to the Truth.

3: If your friend simply left the JW congregation and went somewhere else, she's disassociated herself... Just means she left. Now, one complication to that is that JWs believe that Christ instructs all of his followers to be ministers. Therefore, part of baptism is a member's ordination into the ministry (which is why there are over 7 million ordained JW ministers, compared to only 400,000 catholic ministers). If she was a baptized, ordained minister... but rejected our teachings and went to a denomination with incompatible teachings... That could result in her no longer being considered a JW minister. However, I'm sure that if a Lutheran minister rejected the concept of the trinity and believed 1 Corinthians 8:6 "There is for us only one God, the Father" ... he would likely no longer be considered a "Lutheran minister" either.

By deeming every baptized member of the JW church as a minister, it appears clear that they are automatically locking everyone into the church all for good. This paragraph doesn't make sense to me. You in a sense deem all your members on the same level as we do our pastors, which the Bible and Christianity sets apart as a called office for certain people, not everyone. So in effect you have ministers ministering to ministers? You say "if he was a baptized, ordained minister...". Well, of course he would have been baptized, and then according to your church became a "minister". So everyone who is baptized is held in the same regard as our pastors who are called by the Lord to the ministry and educated to lead congregations. This is a way of coming right out and saying, yes everyone who leaves the church is separated from the JW community. More separation and exclusion from Christianity, which is fine for me because I consider JW's separate. But you can't say this without furthering yourselves from Christianity as well.

4: I'm not sure what you mean by "having your own book is a criteria for being a JW" ... The NWT is the JW's "official bible" simply for the sake of organization. During JW meetings, people are encouraged to follow along and a LOT of scriptures are read. If everyone brought different translations, it would simply be difficult to follow along.

I mean to say, JW's have their own book that they alone follow. Even within our own church, we have people who like the KJV or other versions and use them. I do find it hard to follow a verse if someone is reading a different version. This isn't the same as having one official book that only Lutherans use and call our own.

You have been kind to share your thoughts with me. However, everything you've said further makes my point that JW's separate themselves from the Christian Church. This is fine, because I agree, but you can't make the claim then, that you are Christians and compare your church to a denomination. no, no, no.

I'm very happy that you joined the boards and look forward to continuing this thread and joining you in others. Again, thank you for your gracious response. :yes

 

[Mohrb]

A few more things here. I asked if JW's consider themselves Christian, why do you separate yourselves, and the first thing you do (besides your gracious opening line) as begin saying how a major tenet of yours is in conflict with biblical Christians.

Yes, JWs consider themselves Christian. And, JWs do their best to form their beliefs around what the bible actually teaches. From the JW perspective, it's the rest of Christendom that conflicts with "biblical Christianity" in various ways. I'd suggest that each side should state what they believe and let the other side state what they believe. When people get into "Well, you ignore the bible by believing the six creative days were/weren't literal 24 hour periods!" ... nothing good is accomplished. Ends up just being a shouting match.

I will say that while Christians may differ the word "Trinity", JW's separate themselves as an exclusive group in using the verse you quoted to say Jesus is lesser than the Father.

There are quite a few other unitarian denominations out there. Although trinitarianism is the majority. It's not that "JWs are trying to separate themselves as special" at all... it's that JWs read Jesus say "the Father is greater than I." ... and we believe him. From a JW perspective, no amount of "implication" and "inference" over-rides such a clear, direct statement. JWs don't want to be "special" or "exclusive." That's precisely why JWs spend billions of hours going door to door to get people to study their bibles.

To say they, when they visit my house, want us simply to look into the Word more is not what I hear. I said I tell them "I'm a Christian and live my life for Christ." "If" we are all within Christianity as you say, my response would be: Fantastic, Brother!" Maybe, "Do you have a home church?". If they do, then possibly, "Are you in a Bible study?", because we believe that's important in addition to attending church. They don't inquire about any of this to see if we are studying His Word. They are assuming we don't, and trying to convince us to attend their meetings would definitely appear to me to be an effort to persuade us into the JW church.

If that's been your experience, the people who've visited you weren't doing it right. First off, it IS a good thing that you're doing your best to live for Christ :nod . Just as we're doing our best. However... there's obviously some significant differences in our interpretations of the same book. The question is: Why?

Regardless of which one of us is more correct than the other... even if I assumed that you were blindly accepting something untrue... why would I want you to blindly convert to my church? Trading one blind faith for another wouldn't fix the problem at all! The intent has always been to bring people closer to God... nothing more or less.

Let me ask you something... if you came across someone interested in learning more about the bible: Would you not study with them? Maybe invite them to your congregation to spiritually upbuild them? If it were YOU in this situation, would you consider it an "effort to get converts?" ... or is this simply a way you would encourage someone to build a relationship with God?

 

[Mohrb]

Then, your first step would be to find out how deeply they are in the Word instead of assuming they aren't. If they aren't, your explanation would make more sense. Since you don't, your motives are quite clear.

This is a matter of delivery. Not everyone is perfectly eloquent. We do have a "ministry school" 1 hour a week where people are given advice/examples/practice delivering the message effectively, naturally, knowledgeably, patiently, etc. Keep in mind that JWs are people just like you, and the conversation is rather dynamic. When someone answers the door and they have a certain look on their face and say "no thank you, I'm Christian." You may not mean it this way, but when some people say that, it sounds like they're impugning our very faith... which is pretty pretty offensive.

Could you imagine how you would feel if a JW knocked on your door and greeted you with "Hi. Did you know that you're not even really Christian at all?" ... can you imagine that conversation being at all productive afterward?

By deeming every baptized member of the JW church as a minister, it appears clear that they are automatically locking everyone into the church all for good. This paragraph doesn't make sense to me. You in a sense deem all your members on the same level as we do our pastors, which the Bible and Christianity sets apart as a called office for certain people, not everyone. So in effect you have ministers ministering to ministers?

Where in the bible does it say that a person shouldn't preach? Where does it say that some should be "better" than others? Recall when the disciples were arguing about who was the greatest? Read Matthew 23:1-11.

You say "if he was a baptized, ordained minister...". Well, of course he would have been baptized, and then according to your church became a "minister". So everyone who is baptized is held in the same regard as our pastors who are called by the Lord to the ministry and educated to lead congregations.

Is there anyone the lord doesn't call to? Of course, he may call people in different ways. Some may be very good speakers... but lack in some other area. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses with which they can minister, if you let God's spirit guide you.

This is a way of coming right out and saying, yes everyone who leaves the church is separated from the JW community. More separation and exclusion from Christianity, which is fine for me because I consider JW's separate. But you can't say this without furthering yourselves from Christianity as well.

Again, consider this perspective: If a Lutheran minister decided that Martin Luther was wrong all along. He renounced protestantism, left the church, and asked to be baptized as a catholic.... How would you react? You said you would invite him back... but would you still consider him a Lutheran? Because he left your denomination for another... would you consider that a separation between Lutheranism and Christianity? Or, would you deem it a separation between Catholicism and Christianity? I think if you can explain how you would feel if your minister left to go be a Catholic... that would be very close to how we would feel if a JW minister left to go be some other denomination.

As one example: My sister. We had a rough childhood growing up. She didn't handle things so well, and luckily I learned from her mistakes. She started cutting herself a lot, doing drugs, dropped out of school, got a bunch of tattoos ranging from bats to fairies to Jack Skellington. She hasn't been to a meeting in years. She's not "considered to be a JW" ... but people still ask about her, and tell me to wish her well and tell her they miss her. She'd always be welcome back. The JWs in the family are still close to her (although I don't see my niece and nephew often because I moved across the state). The only way she's "excluded" is that because she's disassociated herself, she's not considered a JW any more... unless she ever wanted to be one, then she would be. ... not sure how this is an unreasonable exclusion.

The JW web site words it this way:

Those who become inactive in the congregation, perhaps even drifting away from association with fellow believers, are not shunned. In fact, special effort is made to reach out to them and rekindle their spiritual interest. If, however, someone unrepentantly practices serious sins, such as drunkenness, stealing or adultery, he will be disfellowshipped and such an individual is avoided by former fellow-worshippers. Every effort is made to help wrongdoers. But if they are unrepentant, the congregation needs to be protected from their influence. The Bible clearly states: ‘Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.’ (1 Corinthians 5:13) Those who formally say they do not want to be part of the organization any more are also avoided. What of a man who is disfellowshipped but whose wife and children are still Jehovah’s Witnesses? The spiritual ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings can continue. As for disfellowshipped relatives not living in the same household, we apply the Bible’s counsel: “Quit mixing†with them. (1 Corinthians 5:11) Disfellowshipped individuals may continue to attend religious services and, if they wish, they may receive spiritual counsel from the elders with a view to their being restored. They are always welcome to return to the faith if they reject the improper course of conduct for which they were disfellowshipped.

I mean to say, JW's have their own book that they alone follow. Even within our own church, we have people who like the KJV or other versions and use them. I do find it hard to follow a verse if someone is reading a different version. This isn't the same as having one official book that only Lutherans use and call our own.

Non-witnesses are allowed to use the NWT. And witnesses are perfectly -allowed- to use other translations. Personally, I prefer the BBE translation (Bible in Basic English). However, printing costs money, and we're 100% contribution based... and we don't pass collection plates... so we can't very well afford to print off all the different translations. People are encouraged to follow along word for word... but I know I've taken a KJV to the meeting and followed along in that. A couple people noticed, but there's nothing wrong with it at all. It's just not quite as effective as following along with the exact same translation.

You have been kind to share your thoughts with me. However, everything you've said further makes my point that JW's separate themselves from the Christian Church. This is fine, because I agree, but you can't make the claim then, that you are Christians and compare your church to a denomination.

You're welcome to your perspective of this. Likewise, I can hold the perspective that "You can't claim to be Christians, yet go against Christ's teachings and deny the God he spent his human life teaching us about." However... impugning your faith would be rather rude, wouldn't it?
:biglol

I'm very happy that you joined the boards and look forward to continuing this thread and joining you in others. Again, thank you for your gracious response. :yes

 

[westtexas]

It's not that "JWs are trying to separate themselves as special" at all... it's that JWs read Jesus say "the Father is greater than I." ... and we believe him. From a JW perspective, no amount of "implication" and "inference" over-rides such a clear, direct statement.

What do you and the JW's make of such a clear direct statement as "I and my Father are one"-John 10:30?
The Jews understood Him to be saying He was God and took up stones, what do you think?

Westtexas

 

[Mohrb]

What do you and the JW's make of such a clear direct statement as "I and my Father are one"-John 10:30?
The Jews understood Him to be saying He was God and took up stones, what do you think?

Good question! Let's see where else Jesus talks about being "one" to find out if it's literally "the same being" or speaking about two being unified:

17?Jesus spoke these things, and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you, 2 according as you have given him authority over all flesh, that, as regards the whole [number] whom you have given him, he may give them everlasting life. 3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.
6 “I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. 7 They have now come to know that all the things you gave me are from you; 8 because the sayings that you gave me I have given to them, and they have received them and have certainly come to know that I came out as your representative, and they have believed that you sent me forth. 9 I make request concerning them; I make request, not concerning the world, but concerning those you have given me; because they are yours, 10 and all my things are yours and yours are mine, and I have been glorified among them.
11 “Also, I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are. 12 When I was with them I used to watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me; and I have kept them, and not one of them is destroyed except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I am coming to you, and I am speaking these things in the world in order that they may have my joy in themselves to the full. 14 I have given your word to them, but the world has hated them, because they are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.
15 “I request you, not to take them out of the world, but to watch over them because of the wicked one. 16 They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world. 17 Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth. 18 Just as you sent me forth into the world, I also sent them forth into the world. 19 And I am sanctifying myself in their behalf, that they also may be sanctified by means of truth.
20 “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; 21 in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth. 22 Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. 23 I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, that the world may have the knowledge that you sent me forth and that you loved them just as you loved me. 24 Father, as to what you have given me, I wish that, where I am, they also may be with me, in order to behold my glory that you have given me, because you loved me before the founding of the world. 25 Righteous Father, the world has, indeed, not come to know you; but I have come to know you, and these have come to know that you sent me forth. 26 And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.â€

I posted the whole chapter because it's simply too good to chop up. Notice throughout the chapter Jesus is glorifying the Father. Notice, specifically verse 3: "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God" Jesus could have easily said "taking in knowledge of US" ... but he called his Father the only true God, then referred to himself as merely the one that was sent forth. As for your question, note verse 20-21: "in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth. Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one."

So... all of us in the faith are one with them "Just as" they are one with each other. Do you believe you and I are God? Or, by serving him, are we simply unified with him?

 

[essentials]

Didn't read everything that was posted here but any religion that resorts to knocking on peoples doors trying to convert them has to be false. Christians dont do that. Christians understand that someones personal beliefs are just that-personal and generally dont push theirs on other people. At least they shouldn't, in my opinion..

 

[Mohrb]

Didn't read everything that was posted here but any religion that resorts to knocking on peoples doors trying to convert them has to be false. Christians dont do that.

Might want to ponder about Romans 10:14-15 at some point.

And Acts 5:42.

 

[essentials]

I tend to think in terms of modern times, my friend. I just can't justify what JW's do.

 

[Mike]

As a Biblical Christian, I would say we SHOULD be going door to door. I SHOULD be doing it more. My neighborhood is full of people with no faith or who are not engaged in their faiths.


Mohrb, gotta run. Look forward to sharing more. Thanks for your response!! :yes

 

[essentials]

I say live and let live. If you start pushing your own personal beliefs on other people youll push them away. If someone was destined to follow Christ he will come to them.