I Am Done With Church

[JohnDB]

Common sense and grace seem to go right out the window when dealing with small community churches.

Dunno why.

Also biblical scholarship, good hermeneutics, and outreach seems to be extremely limited as well.

And I know that very few can be Gideons in leadership for positive change.... But you would think that someone would step up.

But often the lesson from James about those who know the good thing they should do but doesn't do it is sinning is long forgotten except to beat up the congregation. Lessons from the pulpits are for everyone but the pastor.

Now granted I am a bit different than most...I don't care about the pastor of any church. I care about those in attendance and make those my focus as to reasons for attending. Each member has a testimony... Of some kind. In their lives resides the real Gospel message. Not the "Gospel lite" coming from the pulpits.

And you can't get those messages unless you get involved in their lives. Praying together and encouraging and exhorting one another.

Church isn't about a two hour entertainment and social exchange of pleasantries. Small talk isn't it...nor is grandstanding about what some congregation owes you or your family for past gifts to God.

Sharing what the scriptures and lessons mean to you and what you have done about those truths is. Also the altruistic activities others might want to join in with you and pray over is why we congregate.

But again I'm preaching to the choir.

 

[Jim Parker]

'Bout sums it up for me, except that I'm just very picky about what church I will attend.

And that's a good thing.

Wouldn't it be great to get back to what the Early Church walked in?

There are thousands of people who have sought out that early church and ended up in the Eastern Orthodox church.(See: Coming Home, Why Protestant Clergy are Becoming Orthodox, Ed. Peter E. Gillquist and Becoming Orthodox, A Journey to the Ancient Christian Church, Gillquist) That's been my path so far though I note that there is a lack of appreciation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit though not a denial.

As long as false teachers keep the people of God, blinded with such nonsense as:

• The baptism of the Holy Spirit was just for the Apostles.
• There are no more apostles and Prophets
  
• We are baptized in the Holy Spirit when we are baptized in water.
• Healing and miracles are of the devil.
• Tongues are of the devil.

IMHO:
The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is for everyone and Jesus is the Baptizer.
There are apostles and prophets. (Unfortunately there are also many frauds.)
Baptism in the Holy Spirit and baptism in water are two separate acts of God.
Healing and miracles are definitely from God and they definitely continue today and will continue until Jesus returns.
Tongues are a gift of the Holy Spirit. I wonder if ascribing it to the devil is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? I hope Not!

But what do I know??
I'm just a tongue-talking Orthocostal. (But not in church. It would frighten them :shock )

Iakov the fool

 

[Blake]

But what do I know??
I'm just a tongue-talking Orthocostal. (But not in church. It would frighten them :shock )

Iakov the fool

I've never heard of a tongue-talking Orthodox Christian. That's fascinating. My old Priest never discredited glossolalia, but most every other Orthodox I've ever met did, and reckoned pentecostal-ish manifestations of the Holy Spirit to be demonic. Very interesting to see the charisma alive within the Orthodox community.

 

[Jim Parker]

The early church had problems kinda the same as to day.. people

Right! Churches would be sooooo much better if it weren't for the people that attend them!

My younger daughter went with us when my wife(†) and I were missionaries. When we returned, it was as if we had had our eyes opened and our home church (where the pastor had torpedoed our efforts to raise support) seemed to be filled with spiritual toddlers playing church. It soon became apparent that it was a family business masquerading as a church and we started looking around. My younger daughter (older now) went on several missions trips after we came back but never found a church that was really serious about Christianity.

My older daughter kept going to the "home church" while my wife and I and her sister were overseas. We had sold our house and all our antiques to support ourselves while raising funds to support our mission and she was aware that we got very little from our home church other and what our friends kicked in. One Sunday it was announced that it was the Pastor's wife's birthday and people practically trampled each other rushing down the aisle to give her gifts. Knowing how we struggled to make ends meet in the field, she got us and walked out and never went back.

So, neither of my children now attend church and neither do my grandchildren.

One day my wife and I ran into another ex-member of our church, a man who had spent much of his life doing missionary work in Mexico. His comment was that our old pastor had, "Driven more people out of the kingdom than he ever brought in."

So they fit the "Done with church but not with God" mold.

But I keep praying for them.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Very interesting to see the charisma alive within the Orthodox community.

Alive but very much under-appreciated.

 

[Blake]

Alive but very much under-appreciated.

Oh, I can imagine. I hope you won't mind my saying that the "religious spirit" is very much alive in Orthodoxy. There are some hard hearts present there that'd sooner die than embrace the latter rain. And I only say so sadly, because deep in my heart, part of me will always be Orthodox.

 

[Jim Parker]

Oh, I can imagine. I hope you won't mind my saying that the "religious spirit" is very much alive in Orthodoxy. There are some hard hearts present there that'd sooner die than embrace the latter rain. And I only say so sadly, because deep in my heart, part of me will always be Orthodox.

Our liturgy begins at 9 am. There are always a number of people who "come for the 10 o'clock service", reverence the Icons with great piety, light candles, and then leave before the Eucharist.

At Pascha (Easter for the rest of you) the congregation goes from 80 to 250 and back down to 80 the next Sunday.

I do miss some of the aspects of the Pentecostal Holiness Church but cannot imagine ever leaving Orthodoxy.

My path may be leading to being a "fool for Christ." I'm halfway there already!

iakov the fool

 

[Blake]

Our liturgy begins at 9 am. There are always a number of people who "come for the 10 o'clock service", reverence the Icons with great piety, light candles, and then leave before the Eucharist.

At Pascha (Easter for the rest of you) the congregation goes from 80 to 250 and back down to 80 the next Sunday.

I do miss some of the aspects of the Pentecostal Holiness Church but cannot imagine ever leaving Orthodoxy.

My path may be leading to being a "fool for Christ." I'm halfway there already!

iakov the fool

I miss it frequently. Maybe one day I'll look East again, but the time isn't now. I sure wouldn't mind if you'd light a candle for me once in awhile, though.

 

[smaller]

Alive but very much under-appreciated.

Pretty sure if you did so openly, a church official would be berating you shortly afterwards.

And the whole iconography thing is a pass for me. Part of the reason I left the RCC was over kneeling down and kissing the feet of a little 4 foot tall brass artistry of supposed Jesus. Why am I doing this?

 

[Jim Parker]

I sure wouldn't mind if you'd light a candle for me once in awhile, though.

Wilco.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Why am I doing this?

It is truly a shame that the answer to that question was never provided and also unfortunate that so many don't even think to ask.

iakov the fool

 

[smaller]

It is truly a shame that the answer to that question was never provided and also unfortunate that so many don't even think to ask.

iakov the fool

Just observing your observation prior re: tongues

"I'm just a tongue-talking Orthocostal. (But not in church. It would frighten them :shock )"

 

[Jethro Bodine]

never found a church that was really serious about Christianity.

Problem is, everybody has their own definition of what being serious about Christianity is and looks like.

I wonder if ascribing it to the devil is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?

Only if the reason you are attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to that of the devil is out of contempt for Christ.

There are thousands of people who have sought out that early church and ended up in the Eastern Orthodox church.

Though I admit I know little about it, I'm confident I would never even consider going there. I'm not looking for ritualistic religion. I'm looking for relationship--with God and my brothers and sisters. Rituals ain't it.

I care about those in attendance and make those my focus as to reasons for attending. Each member has a testimony... Of some kind. In their lives resides the real Gospel message. Not the "Gospel lite" coming from the pulpits.

And you can't get those messages unless you get involved in their lives. Praying together and encouraging and exhorting one another.

This can not, and does not happen in a traditional church setting. It is always relegated to an optional, minor, secondary meeting of some sorts--like a Bible Study, or a home group. And few attend these because they become conscience stricken if they even think about not going to the traditional church service we've all been taught to do. So it always wins out over any secondary meetings that, in their minds, don't fulfill God's desire for them to go to church.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I miss it frequently. Maybe one day I'll look East again, but the time isn't now. I sure wouldn't mind if you'd light a candle for me once in awhile, though.

Be strong, Blake, be strong.

 

[Jim Parker]

I'm not looking for ritualistic religion. I'm looking for relationship--with God and my brothers and sisters.

What makes you think that they are mutually exclusive?

The original church was what you would call "ritualistic." Christian worship came out of the Jewish temple and synagogue practices.

iakov the fool

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What makes you think that they are mutually exclusive?

You can't do both. One is always at the expense of the other.

 

[Jim Parker]

You can't do both. One is always at the expense of the other.

You??? You who??

That hasn't been my experience. My relationship with God and my brothers and sisters is enhanced by the ancient liturgy.

iakov the fool

 

[JohnDB]

This can not, and does not happen in a traditional church setting. It is always relegated to an optional, minor, secondary meeting of some sorts--like a Bible Study, or a home group. And few attend these because they become conscience stricken if they even think about not going to the traditional church service we've all been taught to do. So it always wins out over any secondary meetings that, in their minds, don't fulfill God's desire for them to go to church.

Are you kidding?
I've been known for skipping service and only making it to small group.

I make no apologies either.

I am who I am and if they don't want me there they are gonna have to grow a pair and say something to my face...which the haters ain't ever going to do. I'd crush them both biblically and publicly.

 

[Lewis]

Who on this board goes to church each and every Sunday and Bible study ?

 

[JohnDB]

I go to small group regular... Every Sunday unless out of country or state...and then its about 75% of those times.