I can never forgive God for this!

[Butch5]

Hi. You may want to check out the discussion on "Gods Fire" in another thread. It is the Greek word "Pur" where we get the world "purify" and "purity" from.

http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...nism-and-the-gospel.52969/page-18#post-930211

God bless,

Kicked

Hi Kicked,

I have been following the thread you mentioned, thanks.

 

[agua.]

I believe the wicked remain unconscious between death and the GWT, but the righteous are conscious.

Interesting Doulos. Another I've never heard of before.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi Glory,

I'm not sure where you're going with this. Gehenna is an actual place outside of Jerusalem where the wicked will be destroyed. It is where the bodies were burned after the overthrow of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar and the Romans. This is where Jesus said the wicked will be thrown. However, Jeremiah says that Gehenna will ultimately be made holy to the Lord. If it's made holy to the Lord then it doesn't seem like it's going to burn for eternity.

I never said Gehenna would burn for eternity. I was showing that Gehenna was a valley South of Jerusalem that was used as a refuse dump, a place where the dead bodies of criminals were dumped and burned and also when Israel went into adultery they made sacrifices of their children to Molech there which was an abomination to the Lord. In Jesus time the fires there were continual as all things were burned there as it was a garbage dump. Jesus spoke symbolic of Gehenna what would happen to those who were wicked that they would be thrown into the fire that never quenches.

 

[Butch5]

I never said Gehenna would burn for eternity. I was showing that Gehenna was a valley South of Jerusalem that was used as a refuse dump, a place where the dead bodies of criminals were dumped and burned and also when Israel went into adultery they made sacrifices of their children to Molech there which was an abomination to the Lord. In Jesus time the fires there were continual as all things were burned there as it was a garbage dump. Jesus spoke symbolic of Gehenna what would happen to those who were wicked that they would be thrown into the fire that never quenches.

I don't believe Jesus was using symbolic language. Isaiah said,

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. {from one new...: Heb. from new moon to his new moon, and from sabbath to his sabbath}
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isa 66:22-24 KJV)

Speaking of the future Isaiah said those worshipping in the future would look on the carcases of those who transgressed against the Lord. It seems from this that there will be bodies burning in Gehenna when Christ returns. This is why I understand Jesus' words literally regarding Gehenna

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I never said Gehenna would burn for eternity. I was showing that Gehenna was a valley South of Jerusalem that was used as a refuse dump, a place where the dead bodies of criminals were dumped and burned

This myth was made up by David Kimhi, there is no historical evidence in the literature or archaeology to support it. This was never taught until David Kimhi made it up in his Psalm 27 Commentary.

If you would like to dispute it, you can provide evidence from Jesus' contemporaries perhaps? Or archaeological evidence for such?

and also when Israel went into adultery they made sacrifices of their children to Molech there which was an abomination to the Lord.

This is true, now do you know what God said he would change its name to?

In Jesus time the fires there were continual as all things were burned there as it was a garbage dump.

Evidence please.

Jesus spoke symbolic of Gehenna what would happen to those who were wicked that they would be thrown into the fire that never quenches.

You can't use an assumed premise (the existence of a burning garbage dump) to then create an interpretation. This is eisegesis.

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't believe Jesus was using symbolic language. Isaiah said,

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. {from one new...: Heb. from new moon to his new moon, and from sabbath to his sabbath}
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isa 66:22-24 KJV)

Speaking of the future Isaiah said those worshipping in the future would look on the carcases of those who transgressed against the Lord. It seems from this that there will be bodies burning in Gehenna when Christ returns. This is why I understand Jesus' words literally regarding Gehenna

Vs. 23 says from one new moon to another and from one sabbath to another as in days. Where do you get his new moon and his sabbath from as the moon is Gods as well as the sabbath. Not sure what you mean there. Isaiah never mentions Gehenna, but only that of the carcasses, which could be anywhere that are found of those who transgressed against the Lord.

 

[kickedoutofchurch]

Everlasting means the same in Hebrew as it does Greek as you can not choose and pick part of the definition, but have to use the whole. Grace has always been from the beginning and everlasting as always will be in past, present and future, just as God said world without end. This world will never end, but be restored when Christ returns. You said God is love right, then proceed to say, but Gods love is not forever as in using the word eternal. I'm sorry, but Gods love is everlasting, perpetual without end.

Strong's Exhausted Concordance: Everlasting
Hebrew # 5769 owlam or olam - means lasting,-more, of old, perpetual/without end
Greek # 166 aionios - means perpetual/without end, also used of past time, or past and future, world without end

Rev 6:10 those souls were posting a question of how long will it be before we are avenged. We can not conclude that "eternal" just means outside of the Earthly realm of space and time as everything in an under heaven is all Gods timing that has nothing to do with our own definition of time as in years, days, hours or minutes.

Rev 6:10 those souls were posting a question of how long will it be before we are avenged. We can not conclude that "eternal" just means outside of the Earthly realm of space and time as everything in an under heaven is all Gods timing that has nothing to do with our own definition of time as in years, days, hours or minutes.

Hi, I am sorry, but I am not catching your "drift" here. I think I hear you saying that the souls that are in Heaven in Rev 6:10 are not immortal or in "eternity"?

Can you please clarify?

Kicked

 

[Butch5]

Vs. 23 says from one new moon to another and from one sabbath to another as in days. Where do you get his new moon and his sabbath from as the moon is Gods as well as the sabbath. Not sure what you mean there. Isaiah never mentions Gehenna, but only that of the carcasses, which could be anywhere that are found of those who transgressed against the Lord.

Hi Glory,

I think from new moon to new moon and from Sabbath to Sabbath is speaking of the kingdom. The "his" is a note in my program. Isaiah doesn't mention Gehenna but Jesus does when He quotes this passage.

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend}
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. (Mar 9:43-44 KJV

Hell, in this verse is translated from Gehenna.

Isaiah,

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Jesus



(Isa 66:24-1 KJV)

 

[for_his_glory]

This myth was made up by David Kimhi, there is no historical evidence in the literature or archaeology to support it. This was never taught until David Kimhi made it up in his Psalm 27 Commentary.

If you would like to dispute it, you can provide evidence from Jesus' contemporaries perhaps? Or archaeological evidence for such?


This is true, now do you know what God said he would change its name to?


Evidence please.


You can't use an assumed premise (the existence of a burning garbage dump) to then create an interpretation. This is eisegesis.

There is no actual evidence one way or another that can or can not support it was a garbage dump and what does it matter anyway as all cities have a garbage dump. We do know from scripture children were sacrificed to Molech there in Gehenna. Isaiah and Jesus both made reference to the unquenchable fire and that the worm did not die there, meaning that there were always new maggots going through their life-cycles, feeding on the trash and human flesh, Isaiah 66:24; Matthew 5:29, 30; Mark 9:43-48; Judith 16:17; Jeremiah Chapter 7.

Jeremiah 7:32 God called it the place of slaughter.

Gehenna - Valley of Hinnom, Old Testament as Gai Ben-Hinnom, Tophet, in the Talmud as Gehinnam

The oldest historical reference to the valley is found in Joshua 15:8 , 18:16 which describe tribal boundaries. The next chronological reference to the valley is at the time of King Ahaz of Judah who sacrificed his sons there according to 2 Chron. 28:3. Isaiah does not mention Gehenna by name, but the burning place, Isaiah 30:33 in which the Assyrian army are to be destroyed, may be read Topheth, and the final verse of Isaiah which concerns the corpses of the same or a similar battle, Isaiah 66:24 , where their worm does not die. Also read Jeremiah 19:6-8 as a reference to the dead bodies that are thrown over the wall of Jerusalem into Gehenna/Tophet.

Flavius Josephus describes in his book of wars:
Now the seditious at first gave orders that the dead should be buried out of the public treasury, as not enduring the stench of their dead bodies. But afterwards, when they could not do that, they had them cast down from the walls into the valleys beneath. (War 5.12.3).

Matthew 5:29, 30; Mark 9:43-48 Jesus uses the prophetic symbolic of Gehenna as the worm did not die there, meaning that there were always new maggots going through their life-cycles, feeding on the the dead corpse. Also note Isaiah 66:24.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi Glory,

I think from new moon to new moon and from Sabbath to Sabbath is speaking of the kingdom. The "his" is a note in my program. Isaiah doesn't mention Gehenna but Jesus does when He quotes this passage.

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend}
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. (Mar 9:43-44 KJV

Hell, in this verse is translated from Gehenna.

Isaiah,

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Jesus



(Isa 66:24-1 KJV)

I can see the new moon and Sabbath being of the kingdom come as in when Christ returns every knee will bow and every tongue confess, but for many it will be to late. Yes hell is also the same as Gehenna, Hades, and Sheol as all meaning the ground/dirt of the earth.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi, I am sorry, but I am not catching your "drift" here. I think I hear you saying that the souls that are in Heaven in Rev 6:10 are not immortal or in "eternity"?

Can you please clarify?

Kicked

The souls that are under the throne are those spirits (breath/spirit of God that He breathed into our nostrils that goes back to Him when we die before the Lords return) of those who were slain for the word of God and are waiting in their graves until the coming of the Lord, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7: 1Thess 4:13-18; 1Cor 15:51-58.

 

[Butch5]

I can see the new moon and Sabbath being of the kingdom come as in when Christ returns every knee will bow and every tongue confess, but for many it will be to late. Yes hell is also the same as Gehenna, Hades, and Sheol as all meaning the ground/dirt of the earth.

Hi Glory,

I see Hades and Sheol as the grave. Gehenna is the Hinnom. I believe that the wicked are going to literally be in Gehenna, the valley of Hinnom.

 

[Butch5]

Hi Kicked,

I don't follow religion, I follow the Scriptures whatever they say. I hold Conditional immortality.

 

[agua.]

Hi Glory,

I see Hades and Sheol as the grave. Gehenna is the Hinnom. I believe that the wicked are going to literally be in Gehenna, the valley of Hinnom.

Hey Butch this is interesting. I've never considered the LoF to be a place on Earth before are you suggesting that the wicked will be destroyed outside Jerusalem after the GWT ? I did read that you suggest Gehenna will be made holy to Yahweh.

 

[for_his_glory]

kickedoutofchurch, thank you for explaining that of what you believe and I agree with some parts, but yet disagree with other parts.

You said:
And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire Revelation 20:15 (true)
At the end of the judgment time, anyone who's name is not written in the Lambs book of life, they too will be thrown into the fire. I guess they will be in the same place as I am, in the fire. I have to believe this is not a physical fire, but possibly a spiritual fire? I can assure you that I am not in a fire or on fire right now.

My question to you is do you think that those who have been thrown into the lake of fire, Rev 20:11-15, as they have not Christ in them will at some point and time be refined in the fire and then will go to be with the Lord forever after the New Jerusalem is ushered down?

If this were true than Satan, along with the beast and the false prophets also would go through the same fire and be with the Lord forever as there is only one lake of fire that was prepared for Satan, the beast and the false prophets, Rev 20:10, including all who have rejected Christ, Rev 20:11-15, that will be in torment forever and ever. There are two final end of days judgements as one is Gods great white throne judgement for those not found written in the Lambs book of life, but are found in Gods book of life, Rev 20:12, that are judged for their works here on earth. Then there is the judgement seat of Christ, 2Corinthians 5:10, that those who are in Christ at His coming will be judged for the things they have done to receive their rewards. The word all has two meanings in scripture as all who reject God/Jesus such and such will be their demise and all who accept God/Jesus such and such will be their reward.

Rev 20:11-15 talks about the second death, being that of those who died without being in Christ will be raise from the hell/grave and cast into the lake of fire, that same fire as in Rev 20:10, for ever and ever. No second chances after Christ returns for His Bride.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi Glory,

I see Hades and Sheol as the grave. Gehenna is the Hinnom. I believe that the wicked are going to literally be in Gehenna, the valley of Hinnom.

Yes Gehenna is the Hinnom, but some people use the word Gehenna as referring to the grave as in Sheol and Hades as those who were thrown down to the ground there and burned to ashes would be their grave site.

 

[Butch5]

Hey Butch this is interesting. I've never considered the LoF to be a place on Earth before are you suggesting that the wicked will be destroyed outside Jerusalem after the GWT ? I did read that you suggest Gehenna will be made holy to Yahweh.

Hi agua,

Yes, I believe the lake of fire is literally Gehenna outside of Jerusalem. Tophet means place of fire and Jeremiah says that Tophet is in the valley of the son of Hinnom. God said because they sacrificed their children there was going to change the name, it wasn't going to be called Tolphet or the valley of the son of Hinnom but rather the valley of slaughter. When God brought Nebuchadnezzar to overthrow Jerusalem it was in Tophet where the bodies were disposed of and burned. Jeremiah was prophesying about king Nebuchadnezzar.

KJV Jeremiah 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.

KJV Jeremiah 7:32 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.

KJV Jeremiah 19:6 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.

KJV Jeremiah 19:11 And shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Even so will I break this people and this city, as one breaketh a potter's vessel, that cannot be made whole again: and they shall bury them in Tophet, till there be no place to bury.

KJV Jeremiah 19:12 Thus will I do unto this place, saith the LORD, and to the inhabitants thereof, and even make this city as Tophet:

KJV Jeremiah 19:13 And the houses of Jerusalem, and the houses of the kings of Judah, shall be defiled as the place of Tophet, because of all the houses upon whose roofs they have burned incense unto all the host of heaven, and have poured out drink offerings unto other gods.

KJV Jeremiah 19:14 Then came Jeremiah from Tophet, whither the LORD had sent him to prophesy; and he stood in the court of the LORD'S house; and said to all the people,

Isaiah speaks of the valley of the son of Hinnom (Gehenna) when prophesying about the return of Christ

KJV Isaiah 30:33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.

12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees. 13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. 14 And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies. 15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. {behind...: or, one after another} 18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. 19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. 20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. {litters: or, coaches} 21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. {from one new...: Heb. from new moon to his new moon, and from sabbath to his sabbath} 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isa 66:1 KJV)

Here Isaiah, prophesies that when Christ returns and does battle with the nations the bodies of the slain will be burned and that those who worship the Lord will see the bodies when they leaved Jerusalem. Isaiah doesn't say what this place is, but, Jesus quotes this passage and says that it is Gehenna.

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

(Mar 9:43-44 KJV)

The word "hell" in verse 43 is Gehenna. So, Jesus indicates that the wicked will be cast into Gehenna. Revelation says they are cast into the lake of fire. I see no reason not to understand the lake of fire to be Gehenna. We see that in Jeremiah's day Gehenna was where the wicked were burned, I understand the same thing happened when Rome destroyed Jerusalem, Isaiah says the wicked who oppose Christ at the end of the age are going to be burned there, Jesus said that the wicked will be burned there, and Revelation says that those not found in the book of life will be burned there. Given the track record that God has established I see no reason not to expect that the wicked will literally be thrown into Gehenna.

Here's something else to consider, Isaiah said that those who worship God would see the bodies in Gehenna as they were leaving Jerusalem, so we know there will be bodies there. Jesus indicates the same thing.

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Mat 10:28 KJV)
Jesus indicates that God can destroy the body in Gehenna, so here again we have the mention of bodies in Gehenna.

 

[Butch5]

Yes Gehenna is the Hinnom, but some people use the word Gehenna as referring to the grave as in Sheol and Hades as those who were thrown down to the ground there and burned to ashes would be their grave site.

I think is what causes confusion. Many see the word "hell" and don't differentiate between, Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus.

 

[agua.]

Hi agua,

Yes, I believe the lake of fire is literally Gehenna outside of Jerusalem. Tophet means place of fire and Jeremiah says that Tophet is in the valley of the son of Hinnom. God said because they sacrificed their children there was going to change the name, it wasn't going to be called Tolphet or the valley of the son of Hinnom but rather the valley of slaughter. When God brought Nebuchadnezzar to overthrow Jerusalem it was in Tophet where the bodies were disposed of and burned. Jeremiah was prophesying about king Nebuchadnezzar.

KJV Jeremiah 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.

KJV Jeremiah 7:32 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.

KJV Jeremiah 19:6 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.

KJV Jeremiah 19:11 And shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Even so will I break this people and this city, as one breaketh a potter's vessel, that cannot be made whole again: and they shall bury them in Tophet, till there be no place to bury.

KJV Jeremiah 19:12 Thus will I do unto this place, saith the LORD, and to the inhabitants thereof, and even make this city as Tophet:

KJV Jeremiah 19:13 And the houses of Jerusalem, and the houses of the kings of Judah, shall be defiled as the place of Tophet, because of all the houses upon whose roofs they have burned incense unto all the host of heaven, and have poured out drink offerings unto other gods.

KJV Jeremiah 19:14 Then came Jeremiah from Tophet, whither the LORD had sent him to prophesy; and he stood in the court of the LORD'S house; and said to all the people,

Isaiah speaks of the valley of the son of Hinnom (Gehenna) when prophesying about the return of Christ

KJV Isaiah 30:33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.

12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees. 13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. 14 And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies. 15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. {behind...: or, one after another} 18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. 19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. 20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. {litters: or, coaches} 21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. {from one new...: Heb. from new moon to his new moon, and from sabbath to his sabbath} 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isa 66:1 KJV)

Here Isaiah, prophesies that when Christ returns and does battle with the nations the bodies of the slain will be burned and that those who worship the Lord will see the bodies when they leaved Jerusalem. Isaiah doesn't say what this place is, but, Jesus quotes this passage and says that it is Gehenna.

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

(Mar 9:43-44 KJV)

The word "hell" in verse 43 is Gehenna. So, Jesus indicates that the wicked will be cast into Gehenna. Revelation says they are cast into the lake of fire. I see no reason not to understand the lake of fire to be Gehenna. We see that in Jeremiah's day Gehenna was where the wicked were burned, I understand the same thing happened when Rome destroyed Jerusalem, Isaiah says the wicked who oppose Christ at the end of the age are going to be burned there, Jesus said that the wicked will be burned there, and Revelation says that those not found in the book of life will be burned there. Given the track record that God has established I see no reason not to expect that the wicked will literally be thrown into Gehenna.

Here's something else to consider, Isaiah said that those who worship God would see the bodies in Gehenna as they were leaving Jerusalem, so we know there will be bodies there. Jesus indicates the same thing.

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Mat 10:28 KJV)
Jesus indicates that God can destroy the body in Gehenna, so here again we have the mention of bodies in Gehenna.

Interesting Butch. This makes me wonder though about the dimensions of Gehenna. Do we assume God will enlarge it as necessary or that it will consume the wicked to nothing and therefor not be filled ?

I've never considered it to be a literal place on Earth before and never connected Tophet ( it's very clear where Tophet is/was ) , it makes sense. Also the witness to the believers who see it will be strong. Thanks mate more food to digest !

 

[Butch5]

Interesting Butch. This makes me wonder though about the dimensions of Gehenna. Do we assume God will enlarge it as necessary or that it will consume the wicked to nothing and therefor not be filled ?

I've never considered it to be a literal place on Earth before and never connected Tophet ( it's very clear where Tophet is/was ) , it makes sense. Also the witness to the believers who see it will be strong. Thanks mate more food to digest !

Hi Agua,

You're welcome. I'm not sure about the dimensions, I'm sure God has that figured out. I do believe that the wicked will be consumed to nothing so I don't think Gehenna will be filled. The more I study the more I'm becoming convinced that Things have been allegorized away. I think to often we as Christians what to make everything spiritual and I'm finding that most things are physical and literal as they concern man.