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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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I heard satan could still visit heaven after he was kicked out....
- Thread starter K stunna
- Start date
spartakis
Member
Well this was before Christ died on the cross.
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. .
And in Revelation there is a war in Heaven where he is thrown out. So I would say he can still come to God with request to attack Christians.
This is my belief and not going to argue with anybody. My 2 cents others will believe different.
Best thing you can do is study and read your Bible
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. .
And in Revelation there is a war in Heaven where he is thrown out. So I would say he can still come to God with request to attack Christians.
This is my belief and not going to argue with anybody. My 2 cents others will believe different.
Best thing you can do is study and read your Bible
K stunna
Member
Interesting, i read it over the internet and i thought it was Blasphemy but yet you tell me it has truth to it
And here i thought when Satan was kicked out he could no longer even dream of Heaven, but the problem is i dont know why he would be allowed back after doing something soooo treacherous against God, this puzzles me a lot
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Christ_empowered
Member
In the OT, Satan kind of works with God. I mean, there's tension--what with Satan being evil and all--but look at Job. Satan goes up to Heaven and God OK's what turns out to be the most intense test of a righteous man the world has ever seen. I guess my interpretation was that Satan was kicked out and left to roam the Earth, but he still drops by to make trouble for believers.
E
Elijah674
Guest
'i' see satan barred from inside the city of God. And for me, I again see that it came to pass when he comitted the sin against the Holy Ghost. The Full cup! Then he was barred entrance! (it took some time Jms. 1:15 for sins finish 1 John 5:16-17)
The earth was un/created as I see it in Rev. 12, where his centeral area was even then allowed. (I see the war of Rev. 12 as spiritual) He came before Adam was created & we see the results in the Garden of Eden. The forbidden tree was the only place that satan was allowed to tempt from.
And I find Jer. 4:22-27 as the exact prophecy
of this from before creation to earth's recreation.
--Elijah
The earth was un/created as I see it in Rev. 12, where his centeral area was even then allowed. (I see the war of Rev. 12 as spiritual) He came before Adam was created & we see the results in the Garden of Eden. The forbidden tree was the only place that satan was allowed to tempt from.
And I find Jer. 4:22-27 as the exact prophecy
of this from before creation to earth's recreation.--Elijah
Levi
Member
The name Satan is thought to have come from the word 'accuser'
He is the accuser of Gods people and the tempter.
God tempts no man, yet Satan does seemingly with God's permission.
"Peter, Satan has asked permission to sift your thoughts like wheat" This is what Jesus said.
Satan is in fact a heavenly creature, one must first define the meaning of Heaven before looking at where Satan can and cant go, he was made in the presence of God with full knowledge.
I find very little evidence that Satan was in fact created as as good creature that fell!
There where those angelic or heavenly beings that forsook their heavenly abode to dwell upon the earth they are cast in chains in utter darkness but as for Satan, He appears to be what he is and if I may add Jesus said this about him:
"He was a murderer from the beginning..." "He is the father of all lies..."
I for one am not wholly convinced that God did not make him like he is now right from the beginning!
He is the accuser of Gods people and the tempter.
God tempts no man, yet Satan does seemingly with God's permission.
"Peter, Satan has asked permission to sift your thoughts like wheat" This is what Jesus said.
Satan is in fact a heavenly creature, one must first define the meaning of Heaven before looking at where Satan can and cant go, he was made in the presence of God with full knowledge.
I find very little evidence that Satan was in fact created as as good creature that fell!
There where those angelic or heavenly beings that forsook their heavenly abode to dwell upon the earth they are cast in chains in utter darkness but as for Satan, He appears to be what he is and if I may add Jesus said this about him:
"He was a murderer from the beginning..." "He is the father of all lies..."
I for one am not wholly convinced that God did not make him like he is now right from the beginning!
Mike
Member
Isaiah 14
"<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-17941">12</sup> How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-17942">13</sup> You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-17943">14</sup> I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.â€
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-17944">15</sup> But you are brought down to the grave,
to the depths of the pit."
There's some disagreement, but generally, Christians I've heard believe this is talking about Satan. IMO, it's pretty clear that to have fallen, he was at one time higher than he is. I've never heard it discussed that Satan could visit God's Heavenly Throne. It seems more reasonable to me that when they spoke, it was the Lord meeting him where he was at. I'm confident he won't be anywhere near the vicinity of where I'll spend eternity.
"<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-17941">12</sup> How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-17942">13</sup> You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-17943">14</sup> I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.â€
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-17944">15</sup> But you are brought down to the grave,
to the depths of the pit."
There's some disagreement, but generally, Christians I've heard believe this is talking about Satan. IMO, it's pretty clear that to have fallen, he was at one time higher than he is. I've never heard it discussed that Satan could visit God's Heavenly Throne. It seems more reasonable to me that when they spoke, it was the Lord meeting him where he was at. I'm confident he won't be anywhere near the vicinity of where I'll spend eternity.
thethinkingrebel
Member
He won't, remember its a NEW heaven and NEW earth where we will spend eternity
Everything will be made new after the judgment.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Mike
Member
He won't, remember its a NEW heaven and NEW earth where we will spend eternity
Right, you are. I was trying to draw a distinction between the two and should have done a better job of that. Regard less of what he can or can't do now, I'm certain he won't have a pass where I am going.
K stunna
Member
'i' see satan barred from inside the city of God. And for me, I again see that it came to pass when he comitted the sin against the Holy Ghost. The Full cup! Then he was barred entrance! (it took some time Jms. 1:15 for sins finish 1 John 5:16-17)
The earth was un/created as I see it in Rev. 12, where his centeral area was even then allowed. (I see the war of Rev. 12 as spiritual) He came before Adam was created & we see the results in the Garden of Eden. The forbidden tree was the only place that satan was allowed to tempt from.
And I find Jer. 4:22-27 as the exact prophecy
--Elijah
I remember this, in Matthew when Jesus said "that a sin against the holy spirit will not be forgivin in this world and the next".........
Im still not sure on what the punishment for us would be......:shocked
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E
Elijah674
Guest
___________________
We could build on these verses, and because God gave us His WORD else/where, we could use 'our' brain to do some figuring maybe??
First: Eccl. 1
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
[10] Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
You said that Lord!;) So what was before Adam? Your first creation & your Very Good 'JEWELL' on earth?
Check out Eze. 28
[11] Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
[12] Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
[13] Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
[14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou [[wast upon the holy mountain of God]]; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
[16] By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
[17] Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
[18] Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
[19] All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
God tell's me that there is more to this than most understand. Personally speaking, I find there that the ex/covering Cherub over the Ark in the Lord's Original Throne Room to be Lucifer before his fall. Also it brings to light that Adam was Christ/God's first creation of mankind & He (God) says NOTHING New...So, Lucifer was as 'i' see it Their first creation. We even see the End of satan being destroyed by 'fire in hell's flame'.
And there is.. very much more from my way of believing!
---Elijah
The book of Revelations clearly states that Satan was cast out of heaven after the crucifixion of Christ whereas before he had a place there from where he accused the brethren.
Revelation 12:3-13
King James Version (KJV)
<SUP id=en-KJV-30895 class=versenum>3</SUP>And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
<SUP id=en-KJV-30896 class=versenum>4</SUP>And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
<SUP id=en-KJV-30897 class=versenum>5</SUP>And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
<SUP id=en-KJV-30898 class=versenum>6</SUP>And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
<SUP id=en-KJV-30899 class=versenum>7</SUP>And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
<SUP id=en-KJV-30900 class=versenum>8</SUP>And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
<SUP id=en-KJV-30901 class=versenum>9</SUP>And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
<SUP id=en-KJV-30902 class=versenum>10</SUP>And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
<SUP id=en-KJV-30903 class=versenum>11</SUP>And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
<SUP id=en-KJV-30904 class=versenum>12</SUP>Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. <SUP id=en-KJV-30905 class=versenum>13</SUP>And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Why is this important to know? Because Satan's power is death and has legal right according to the Old Testament to hold captive all men because of sin. He is a merciless overzealous prosecuter who can only be defeated through the blood of the lamb. That means we must all forgive and bear one anothers sins, as Jesus has taught us on the cross, so as to escape condemnation. There are deeper reasons why.
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Elijah674
Guest
Hi, where does it say (in verse 13) when that took place?? And you do rightly agree that Michael is Christ Michael??
<sup>7</sup>And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon;
--Elijah
ivorhughjarse
Member
I dont want the thread to go off subject but the JW's have this thing with Michael being Christ I don't think its only JW's but in my experience it's usually groups that have congregated after leaving that organisation it's fairly unique to them
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Elijah674
Guest
There is NO problem with Eternal/Immortal/Christ/MichaelGod being the one over His creation from here. And J.W.?? were not around when the Dan. 12:1-4 verse was eternalized!;) (new/word?) + Rev. 12.
But again, satan & all [[angels are CREATED ministering spirits]]. And won't be much longer.
Yet another thought is verse 14's...
<sup>4</sup>And his tail drew [[the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth]]: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
'i' see this as Lucifer, and as being the Eze. 28 first most important created one of Christ's creation who actually warred against his CREATOR in full rebellion (sin against the Holy Ghost) & finally drew out 1/3 of Christ's created angels.
And hang unto you hat!
In Matt. 25's PARABLE we see %50 were lost at one time (at least 'i' do;)) And that was just a small 'REMNANT' (Eccl. 3:15) who CLAIMED the ETERNAL LAMB OF GOD for Their future RETURN IN FAITH.Perhaps some might think that Christ could not save any from this heaven rebellion? Anyhow, what would be the purpose to now leave these ones in heaven when they had SINNED AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST?? (or all earths final 666 test)
1 John 5 '...There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
[17] All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
And Matt. 25 said..
[1] Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
[2] And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
[3] They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
[4] But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
[5] While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
[6] And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
So yes, I see this having the Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15's three/fold truth of heavens rebellion, and old Israel's repeat (Matt. 23:38) + with Laodicea Rev. 3:9's last leader once again being played out. And these THREE were Christ's Virgin in Doctrine Candlestick Folds. Rev. 2:5. (and the ones of Rev. 17:1-5 are already prophesied as gone hay/wire!
)--Elijah
Classik
Member
Since Satan is known as the god of this world and the prince of the powers of the air he has access to the throne of God to accuse the saints of God as Jesus makes intercession for them. Satan has no authority in heaven as he lost that privilege, but was cut down to earth and through his hatred and anger of God now uses his deceit to separate man from God by stealing the word of God from them thus stealing their faith in God.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
To study more about Satan go to my website at the bottom of this post and click on Satan.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
To study more about Satan go to my website at the bottom of this post and click on Satan.
Lucifer’s name meant lightbearer when he was created as he was a reflection of Gods brightness as one who had favor in the Lord. God changed his name to Satan, which means adversary, after he fell from heaven. God changed many names from one to another in the Bible to reflect his glory through them as a nation. Lucifer was created perfect in all his ways with beauty, wisdom and freewill. God placed him as the guardian or protector over the throne of God in heaven. He was entrusted with many possessions and found much favor in the Lord.
God created the earth and saw that it was good and he took Lucifer from Gods Holy Mountain and set him over the Garden of Eden as a covering cherub to watch over and enjoy all that was of God. As Lucifer was set in the garden iniquity was soon found in him as he defiled Gods sanctuary through pride in his own beauty and wisdom as he wanted all that was of Gods here on earth to be his own and violence soon filled his heart as he tried to make his throne above the angels and be God. Because iniquity was found in him God cast him and those angels who chose to follow him out of his holy mountain and cast them all down to earth to be trampled of all nations. The only reference in scripture that denotes there being one third of the angels falling with Satan is in Revelation 12:4.
(Ref: Read Ezekiel Chapter 28 Prince of Tyrus)
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Elijah674
Guest
I see it pretty much like that.;) Here is 'my' thinking also. God said to another Immortal, (with an image.. not an created ministering spirit) let us make man in our image. One thing for sure is Adam needed a woman to create.. procreate!
Another like/ness of God.
And Cain was their first son, so as Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl.3:15 finds, Luciffer was Their first creation. (the Lord's) And neither reached full eternal saving maturity!
Both the first ones rebelled. Compare Nah. 1:9Eccl. 1
[9] The thing that hath been, it [is that which shall be]; and that which [is done is that which shall be done]: and there is no new thing under the sun.
[10] Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
Just another thought? Seeing that this is God's Inspired WORD, Note what was before Adam & Eve's First Born son then?! Both the first created perfect one & the 'very Good' Born of Adam & Eve sinned the Fatal Mature sin against the Holy Ghost. Cain killed his brother & Christ said that satan was a killer from the beginning.
Cain was never before signaled out as sinful, untile this MATURE farmer is seen in Gen. 4:4-7. In other words, he was obedient to God for some time period! And then we see.. Total rejection from the WORD Himself! Even after offered pardon again!
SO: We see the rebellion finding its last 'fling' played out on earth, with Cain being satan's first full/fledged convert. Even note the length of time before Seth came of the scene as the 'SON OF GOD' replacement of slain able! 120 years there/bouts?
And as stated, this is the way that 'i' see it!
--Elijah