I misled us on the issue of divorce - wrong interpretation

[Jethro Bodine]

Are we getting it yet folks? Divorce is adultery.

Are our bodily desires so strong in us Christians that we can't accept that?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

a commitment to continued lifelong chastity and lifelong willingness to reform the marriage is the Biblical path forward.

Why can't this be done IN a marriage?
Until such a time as the other one decides to leave, if they do that.

 

[GodsGrace]

JohnDB
Help me out here.

When did Jesus say that polygamy is okay?

W

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Also, you DID NOT speak directly to my "issue" which was an explanation of why divorce and remarriage is a CONTINUING sin. How is it not continuing if I'm living in adultry?? At exactly what point of the day do you stop sinning if you're living with someone out of wedlock OR in a remarriage? Seems to me the sin is going on for 24 hours straight.

I think his point is that when the person asks forgiveness for the sin of divorcing and remarrying the legal offense in God's eyes ends. You are arguing that literally and practically the visible offense continues. Certainly you agree that forgiveness ends any legal guilt associated with divorce/ remarriage even though the relationship continues outwardly. I'm thinking of David who did not end his relationship with Bathsheba even though he took her unlawfully. To ozspen David's offense ended when he sought God's forgivness. To you his offense never literally outwardly ended. Both of you are correct in your observations.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

JohnDB
Help me out here.

When did Jesus say that polygamy is okay?

W

I don't think he was saying Jesus said it's okay. I think he's saying Jesus never went on record as it not being okay.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't think he was saying Jesus said it's okay. I think he's saying Jesus never went on record as it not being okay.

Yeah. But let's let HIM answer!

 

[reba]

NT teaching says big wigs in the church should have only one wife...

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yeah. But let's let HIM answer!

I feared you two would continue to talk past each other.

 

[JohnDB]

"8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. 9“And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” (Matthew 19:8-9 NASB)

If polygamy were sanctioned by Christ why would he say it is adultery to marry another woman?

If marrying another woman is adultery against a woman you have divorced, how much more so it is against someone you are still married to.

But how did God change his mind about polygamy?
Because of the whole Judah/Tamar thing then we have the book of Ruth with the kinsman Redeemer. And it was the law that if your brother died you had to marry his wife. Then we have all the many Patriarchs who had plural marriages. Including the lawgiver Moses. (Who almost died for not circumcising his son)

Surely if God had such an issue with polygamy it wouldn't be a promise of blessings in Zechariah.

(I'm fully aware of the English translation and how its been warped to fit a particular viewpoint but I know the original language and have seen firsthand what Jesus really said and meant....just in case you want to get off the limb you are out on. It's not that it seems to you that what you believe is wrong when so many have been led astray by the translating... But the history and traditions in this instance are what is creating the rift)

 

[reba]

I think i will look at what you say Jethro Bodine about divorce causes the other to commit adultery...I see it is a quote... but a deeper look... one by the grace of God can live celibate... right ?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

(I'm fully aware of the English translation and how its been warped to fit a particular viewpoint but I know the original language and have seen firsthand what Jesus really said and meant....just in case you want to get off the limb you are out on. It's not that it seems to you that what you believe is wrong when so many have been led astray by the translating... But the history and traditions in this instance are what is creating the rift)

I'll humble myself to whatever misunderstanding I have about the passage if you show it to me. I see Jesus saying that to marry another woman after a divorce is adultery. So how is it that marrying another woman while still married to her is not adultery?

 

[JohnDB]

NT teaching says big wigs in the church should have only one wife...

Now that was Paul speaking to a Roman audience... And they didn't practice polygamy... So why would he say that?

Especially when a successful business man would have one wife but likely a "consort" or two.

 

[reba]

I would NOT marry my brother in law he was a filthy creep

 

[reba]

Now that was Paul speaking to a Roman audience... And they didn't practice polygamy... So why would he say that?

Especially when a successful business man would have one wife but likely a "consort" or two.

some things never change :tongue

 

[Jethro Bodine]

one by the grace of God can live celibate... right ?

Absolutely. I'm married and doing that.

I think you'd be rolling the dice hoping the spouse you divorce, in order for you yourself to live alone and celibate, is not going to remarry. The odds are way in favor of them remarrying and then, walla, you are guilty of leading them into adultery.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think his point is that when the person asks forgiveness for the sin of divorcing and remarrying the legal offense in God's eyes ends. You are arguing that literally and practically the visible offense continues. Certainly you agree that forgiveness ends any legal guilt associated with divorce/ remarriage even though the relationship continues outwardly. I'm thinking of David who did not end his relationship with Bathsheba even though he took her unlawfully. To ozspen David's offense ended when he sought God's forgivness. To you his offense never literally outwardly ended. Both of you are correct in your observations.

My post no. 102 answering someone who was asking why divorce and remarriage is a continuing sin says it all.
If the very end if read, forgiveness is there. The point of the post was not whether or not the sin of divorce and remarriage could be forgiven, but why it would be considered a "continuing" sin and why it's considered adultry. I've always said it's between God and the person and their conscience. I can't get into anybody's mind.

I think it's important to note that marriage is a covenant and that's why it can't be broken. Even if two people get divorced - in God's eyes they're still married. Thus the adultry if they get remarried (or have a relationship).

OzSpen's post 104 clearly shows that there's not an understanding that this is not just a sin, but is the breaking of a covenant. If we don't understand this, we'll never understand why divorce is wrong.

I never said it can't be forgiven. I'm not the Pope - and I think even he can't do that!

W

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I would NOT marry my brother in law he was a filthy creep

Lol! But what if he chose instead to have you do the sandal thing and spit in his face instead of marrying you?

 

[GodsGrace]

I feared you two would continue to talk past each other.

John DB may not answer and plus I have to sign off.
Here's why I asked him where it was that Jesus said polygamy was okay.
He was going to say what you did: that Jesus never stated that polygamy is wrong.
Great!
This means that unless Jesus SPECIFICALLY said any one thing was wrong - that makes it right?
He couldn't say everything that was wrong to do - most things have to be inferred from Jesus' life and all His sayings put together as one thought.

W

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think it's important to note that marriage is a covenant and that's why it can't be broken. Even if two people get divorced - in God's eyes they're still married. Thus the adultry if they get remarried (or have a relationship).

Perhaps this is the source of the problem. Adultery DOES end a marriage. That's why we are not to divorce. Divorce does not end a relationship, as you point out. Being with another person afterward does. Divorce leads to adultery. That's why divorce is prohibited.....except in the case of adultery, that's because the adultery already ended the relationship...unless they want to continue it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

John DB may not answer and plus I have to sign off.

You're mixing up quotes.
I feared you and OzSpen would continue to talk past each other, not you and John DB.