" I never knew you " --- Literal or Figurative

[francisdesales]

francis:



He loved His own in the world Jn 13:1

Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

Did God love Moses during the time Jesus said this?

Moses wasn't in the world - so how now, brown cow???

According to you, God only loved those alive in the world when Jesus said this. You were not in the world yet, so according to you, Christ/God did not love you, or Moses.

He doesn't love His angels, the rest of creation (which HE said was "good") and those who had died already and were no longer in the world or those yet born. The essence of lunacy. Do you think these things up as you type?

You appear to have this problem with the application of language, thinking that when someone says something that they do, they have ruled out all other options. Refer back to the Obama example.

As usual, you insert a limitation on the power of God - to love all men - just because you cannot, making God in your image and likeness...

Now, God desires that all men be saved. If God desires all men to be saved, it is not possible that He only died for the elect. There is only ONE way to be saved, and it is through the death and resurrection of Christ - Acts of the Apostles. Thus, again, your point of view is destroyed. You just don't want to admit it - nor are you providing an alternative backing of your "tradition of men".

 

[Alabaster]

As a latecomer, in answer to the OP, the meaning of "I never knew you" is referring to intimacy in relationship. True believers have an intimate relationship with Jesus, whereas those who are nominal do not.

Nominal, carnal believers may spout good doctrine, and even use the name of Jesus in casting out the enemy, but until one comes into a walking, talking relationship with Jesus, as a doer rather than a hearer, abiding in Christ, then Jesus cannot really 'know' him.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Wow! Classic prooftexting! Why is Jesus' love in the past tense? Because, this passage is only talking about the disciples and the particular events that followed. However, that Jesus loved these twelve men does not mean He doesn't love everyone else.

Do you believe Jesus washed Judas Iscariot's feet?

By the way, you were not in the world at that time, and if you 'are' in the world,,,well,,, He only loved those which 'were' in the world,,,and if you 'were' in the world, why aren't you now? :rolling

He loved His own in the world Jn 13:1

Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

 

[savedbygrace57]

francis:

Did God love Moses during the time Jesus said this?

Thats not relevant, what is relevant is that Jesus did not love or die for them He did not know.

He knew His Sheep that He died for Jn 10:

14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

 

[francisdesales]

Thats not relevant, what is relevant is that Jesus did not love or die for them He did not know.

Sadly for you, it IS relevant, because your line of thinking says that Christ didn't die for those outside of the world at the time of the crucifixion. He only died for "those He knew in the world".

That would exclude you - according to you, you remain in your sins, since Christ didn't know you. That makes it pretty relevant to your situation, wouldn't you say???

You remain unsaved, despite your screen name and wishful thinking - according to your wonderful "logic"...

 

[savedbygrace57]

Sadly for you, it IS relevant, because your line of thinking says that Christ didn't die for those outside of the world at the time of the crucifixion. He only died for "those He knew in the world".

That would exclude you - according to you, you remain in your sins, since Christ didn't know you. That makes it pretty relevant to your situation, wouldn't you say???

You remain unsaved, despite your screen name and wishful thinking - according to your wonderful "logic"...

what is relevant is that Jesus did not love or die for them He did not know.

 

[stovebolts]

Sadly for you, it IS relevant, because your line of thinking says that Christ didn't die for those outside of the world at the time of the crucifixion. He only died for "those He knew in the world".

That would exclude you - according to you, you remain in your sins, since Christ didn't know you. That makes it pretty relevant to your situation, wouldn't you say???

You remain unsaved, despite your screen name and wishful thinking - according to your wonderful "logic"...

Joe,
I want to be clear I am understanding you here since your above statement walks a fine line with the TOS.

Can you elaborate exactly how you came to this conclusion and clarify if you yourself are questioning SBG's salvation, or if you are simply applying his own logic toward himself by way of example detached from his eternal state.

 

[francisdesales]

Joe,
I want to be clear I am understanding you here since your above statement walks a fine line with the TOS.

Can you elaborate exactly how you came to this conclusion and clarify if you yourself are questioning SBG's salvation, or if you are simply applying his own logic toward himself by way of example detached from his eternal state.

Quite simply, 'savedbygrace' has claimed that Jesus only died for "His own in the world" - interpreting it to the point that only those "in the world" when He said this were those He died for. Yes, I know, it is an insane stance - and logically speaking, as I have noted, this would exclude Moses, the angels and 'savedbygrace" HIMSELF.

You are free to follow our conversation and the case he builds in constructing the coffin for his logic.

What's sad is that he doesn't even realize his argument has excluded himself from the saving works of Christ...:bigfrown

 

[francisdesales]

what is relevant is that Jesus did not love or die for them He did not know.

God desires all men to be saved.

Men can only be saved by the death of Christ on the cross.

Thus, Christ died for all men... The sin of the world.

 

[stovebolts]

Quite simply, 'savedbygrace' has claimed that Jesus only died for "His own in the world" - interpreting it to the point that only those "in the world" when He said this were those He died for. Yes, I know, it is an insane stance - and logically speaking, as I have noted, this would exclude Moses, the angels and 'savedbygrace" HIMSELF.

You are free to follow our conversation and the case he builds in constructing the coffin for his logic.

What's sad is that he doesn't even realize his argument has excluded himself from the saving works of Christ...:bigfrown

Thanks Joe, that's what I thought you were saying but just had to have it clarified.
You know we can't just go running around telling everyone that they aint saved, and I didn't think that's what you said.

 

[francisdesales]

Thanks Joe, that's what I thought you were saying but just had to have it clarified.
You know we can't just go running around telling everyone that they aint saved, and I didn't think that's what you said.

You are correct, Jeff, I would not judge whether someone was saved or not. The argument of the other guy has painted himself into an unsaved corner, I just pointed it out and am hoping he has the sense to see it...

Probably not. Oh well.

Regards

 

[Sinthesis]

what is relevant is that Jesus did not love or die for them He did not know.

If your belief were true then it would make Christ a hypocrite.2

Mat 5:43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 - But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 - That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 - For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 - And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 - Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.​

 

[Alabaster]

Jesus cannot 'know' anyone without a person coming to Him by faith believing in Him as one's personal Saviour.

He died for EVERYONE! Not everyone will come to Him, and therefore He will not know everyone in relationship. It is relationship that this is all about. The invitation is extended to all to become adopted sons of God.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Jesus cannot 'know' anyone without a person coming to Him by faith believing in Him as one's personal Saviour.

He died for EVERYONE! Not everyone will come to Him, and therefore He will not know everyone in relationship. It is relationship that this is all about. The invitation is extended to all to become adopted sons of God.

Jesus said to them " I never knew you " How could Jesus tell someone I never knew you, if He extend them a invitation ! Is He in the business of not knowing whom He extends a invite to ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

sin:

If your belief were true then it would make Christ a hypocrite.2

Thats in your opinion, which i do not put any stock in.

 

[savedbygrace57]

franc:

God desires all men to be saved

Then its up to Christ to save them. Lk 19:


10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

 

[francisdesales]

Jesus said to them " I never knew you " How could Jesus tell someone I never knew you, if He extend them a invitation ! Is He in the business of not knowing whom He extends a invite to ?

As has already been pointed out, the "I never knew you" refers to false teachers. This is not about extended an invitation to everyone, but about those who claim to have a favored spot based on "their" works and are considered false teachers.

Jesus died for all men, the world. Not everyone will benefit from this sacrifice. What is amazing is the text twisting required by you - and the inevitable painting yourself into a corner of not being saved by your very own "doctrine". Built upon sand, indeed...

 

[francisdesales]

franc:

Then its up to Christ to save them. Lk 19:


10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

It's up to the individual to repent, since Christ's salvific work has already been done on the cross. It is not about to be done again.

 

[savedbygrace57]

It's up to the individual to repent, since Christ's salvific work has already been done on the cross. It is not about to be done again.

So you are saying that Christ came to seek and to save that which was lost, but He failed to save that which was lost !

 

[savedbygrace57]

francis:

As has already been pointed out, the "I never knew you" refers to false teachers

It does not matter who it was, He never knew them, never died for them. Those He knew He died for scripture says.

Jn 10:



14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.