" I never knew you " --- Literal or Figurative

[Sinthesis]

Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mat 10:32 ¶ Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 - But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 26:31 ¶ Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.
Mat 26:32 - But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.
Mat 26:33 - Peter answered and said unto him, Though all [men] shall be offended because of thee, [yet] will I never be offended.
Mat 26:34 - Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Mat 26:35 - Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.

Mat 26:69 ¶ Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
Mat 26:70 - But he denied before [them] all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
Mat 26:71 - And when he was gone out into the porch, another [maid] saw him, and said unto them that were there, This [fellow] was also with Jesus of Nazareth.
Mat 26:72 - And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.
Mat 26:73 - And after a while came unto [him] they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art [one] of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.
Mat 26:74 - Then began he to curse and to swear, [saying], I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.
Mat 26:75 - And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.​

It is really very simple.

Peter believed Jesus was The Christ. Yet when Jesus allowed Himself to be captured and humiliated, Peter was embarrassed to be associated with Him because Peter's pre-resurrection concept of the Messiah was in error; thus his three denials.

Now suppose a self professed Christian is in error about his role as part of the body of Christ. Believing that faith gives one a license to practice anything, as long as it is in the name of Christ, is to slander Jesus' name. Jesus is justly offended that one would associate iniquitous behavior with belief in Him, and thus Jesus says He will deny affiliation with that person at their judgment.

 

[savedbygrace57]

nath:

Well...that is what He said.

Right, He would not tell people He Loved and died for, that I never knew you, He would be lying.

Because He knows His own Sheep and dies for them Jn 10:

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So, those He never knew, there is no scripture support that He died for them, that He laid down His Life for !

 

[Nathan]

nath:



Right, He would not tell people He Loved and died for, that I never knew you, He would be lying.

Because He knows His own Sheep and dies for them Jn 10:

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So, those He never knew, there is no scripture support that He died for them, that He laid down His Life for !

Ok, I'll bite.

If you say He will not deny those who turn their back on Him, then that means that He will accept everyone who calls out to Him...right? Oh....wait....that verse we are dealing with actually says differently.

Mt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Ok. So not everyone who calls out Lord, Lord will be the 'chosen'. I think you are familiar with this 'theology', and would agree.

But wait....we do have another passage that speaks about this...

Mt 10:32-33 "So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, 33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven."

Interesting...So are you calling Jesus a lier?

Oh...you are still hung up that His sacrifice did not apply to all mankind. I got it.

Ro 5:12-21 "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 If, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."


So are you going to say that not all people have sinned? Because this passage clearly states the two sides of mankind. The side with sin and the side without. By one mans disobedient, all were confined under sin. Then by one mans obedience all are 'given' the chance to be made righteous.

In other words. If you are trying to say that His sacrifice was not intended for ALL who would believe and call out to Him, then based on this passage above Adams sin did not apply to all; only those who are chosen to 'receive' it. Huh? That does not make sense...

 

[francisdesales]

.


Matthew 7:21-23

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’



When Jesus said the above, did He mean it literally or figuratively when He said "I never knew you" ?

Seems this question came up before...

The context, which no one has discussed yet, is about doing the will of the Father, not just "gnosis". Those who "know" Jesus do the Will of the Father for its own sake. Clearly, the false prophets that Jesus is speaking about have other motives for "doing" things. Jesus is not saying He "never" had a relationship with someone, but that the former relationship is pointless if one does not continue doing the Will of the Father. It is AS IF He never knew you, not that He literally never knew you. That is impossible, if one thinks Jesus is God...

On this relationship, Ezekiel mentions this interesting comment:

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. Ezek 18:24

Peter writes about something similar:

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2 Peter 2:20-21

It would have been better to NEVER have been "saved", then to be saved and then return to an unsaved condition. One must continue to do the Father's will as their general direction in life (and I am not refering to living a perfect life...). Once someone is freed from the slavery of sin, "WHY GO BACK TO THAT SLAVERY?" is the rhetorical question. It doesn't mean it is impossible, but it begs the question. Those who do go back might as well have NEVER known Christ... They have returned to an unsaved condition, again returning to the vomit of their former lives ("being saved" is not just a condition in heaven, but one here below)

Regards

 

[savedbygrace57]

Ok, I'll bite.

If you say He will not deny those who turn their back on Him, then that means that He will accept everyone who calls out to Him...right? Oh....wait....that verse we are dealing with actually says differently.

Mt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Ok. So not everyone who calls out Lord, Lord will be the 'chosen'. I think you are familiar with this 'theology', and would agree.

But wait....we do have another passage that speaks about this...

Mt 10:32-33 "So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, 33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven."

Interesting...So are you calling Jesus a lier?

Oh...you are still hung up that His sacrifice did not apply to all mankind. I got it.

Ro 5:12-21 "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 If, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."


So are you going to say that not all people have sinned? Because this passage clearly states the two sides of mankind. The side with sin and the side without. By one mans disobedient, all were confined under sin. Then by one mans obedience all are 'given' the chance to be made righteous.

In other words. If you are trying to say that His sacrifice was not intended for ALL who would believe and call out to Him, then based on this passage above Adams sin did not apply to all; only those who are chosen to 'receive' it. Huh? That does not make sense...

He stated I never knew you ! That has nothing to do with their actions. That has to do with His self.

How can you tell someone you loved and cared for so dearly, I never knew you ?

 

[Nathan]

He stated I never knew you ! That has nothing to do with their actions. That has to do with His self.

How can you tell someone you loved and cared for so dearly, I never knew you ?

Deu 7:6-15 "For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the LORD set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples, but it is because the LORD loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers, that the LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations, and repays to their face those who hate him, by destroying them. He will not be slack with one who hates him. He will repay him to his face. You shall therefore be careful to do the commandment and the statutes and the rules that I command you today. "And because you listen to these rules and keep and do them, the LORD your God will keep with you the covenant and the steadfast love that he swore to your fathers. He will love you, bless you, and multiply you. He will also bless the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground, your grain and your wine and your oil, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock, in the land that he swore to your fathers to give you. You shall be blessed above all peoples. There shall not be male or female barren among you or among your livestock. And the LORD will take away from you all sickness, and none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which you knew, will he inflict on you, but he will lay them on all who hate you."

Then He turned around and said what about them to Moses, after they 'hated' Him by building another 'god' to worship???

Deu 9:13-16 "Furthermore, the LORD said to me, 'I have seen this people, and behold, it is a stubborn people. Let me alone, that I may destroy them and blot out their name from under heaven. And I will make of you a nation mightier and greater than they.' So I turned and came down from the mountain, and the mountain was burning with fire. And the two tablets of the covenant were in my two hands. And I looked, and behold, you had sinned against the LORD your God. You had made yourselves a golden calf. You had turned aside quickly from the way that the LORD had commanded you."

Those who will been told "I never knew you" will bring it upon themselves. It is a sad, sad situation. And it is only because they decided they did not want to love Him. That is all. The whole law of God is fulfilled in this, "you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul". They will be 'blotted' out as if they had never been known.



Rev 3:1 "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: 'The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. "'I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.


Rev 3:2 Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.


Rev 3:3 Remember, then, what you received and heard(both of these words are past tense, that means they had received, and had heard). Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.


Rev 3:4 Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.


Rev 3:5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.


Rev 3:6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'

 

[francisdesales]

He stated I never knew you ! That has nothing to do with their actions. That has to do with His self.

Have you actually read Matthew 7:20-24? Apparently not...

If you did, how could you write "it has nothing to do with their actions"?

Please read the context before you comment on the Word of God.

Regards

 

[Cajuntsa]

When I hear this verse, I'm imagining someone who claims to know God and brags and boasts to others how close he is to God and God is saying this because only God's knows his/her heart and mind.

 

[Sparkey]

There was once a man who loved playing computer games. It's an age-old story. It was online love. Boy meets girl and the man did indeed find a lady. She was wonderful and they fell in love. But of course, they never really met. Not face to face. They did form an unspoken agreement though that they would consider marriage after meeting and plans were made, airline tickets were bought and it seemed almost a fairy tale romance had a chance to not only live between them but thrive.

Then, one tragic day, her daughter came online and announced her death in a tragic car accident.

What followed was a mixture of grief and confusion. Grief because of the loss the computer gamer felt and confusion as one after another, other gamers would come forward and announce their love for her as well.

Our hero, the computer gamer. trusted her. He loved her and every moment they had shared. His love had been patterned after God's love in that he believed all things, did not count a wrong suffered and etc. It would be difficult to imagine how he felt when other men came forward and spoke of the plans they had made. "She had invited me to come to her home and live with her..."

Time goes by.

Turns out, the hoped-for fiancé of the man who loved computer games was not only 'engaged' to another man (other men?) BUT also she was not dead. The computer gamer discovered strong evidence, she applied for a job approximately 3 months after she "died." He wrote her, didn't confront her but only assured her that he would receive her gracefully should she choose to continue their relationship. No reply. Now, we jump forward to "today", the day they finally meet in real life, face to face.

Can you see him saying, "Depart from me, I have never known you."

The "woman" is, of course, me. I have failed to keep my part of the bargain and continue in sin even though the Holy Spirit strives with me daily --to depart and eschew evil.

O! Adulterous and idolatrous generation. Flee from sin. Your God loves you, you are betrothed in righteousness yet refuse to adorn yourself with the white wedding gown provided. What shall become of us?
________________________________________________________________

Hosea 2:14-23 (KJV)

14 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her. 15 And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.

16 And it shall be at that day, saith the Lord, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali. 17 For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.

18 And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.

19 And I will betroth thee unto me forever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. 20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.

21 And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the Lord, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth; 22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.

23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, “Thou art my people”; and they shall say, “Thou art my God”.

…I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth…

_____________________________________

Betroth me in faithfulness, my Lord and SaviorGod. Cause it to happen for without you I can surmount nothing and can amount to nothing.
Have I not called upon Your Name? This then is the trust that You have provided me, speaking for me - that You are my salvation and my steadfast hope.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Deu 7:6-15 "For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the LORD set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples, but it is because the LORD loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers, that the LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations, and repays to their face those who hate him, by destroying them. He will not be slack with one who hates him. He will repay him to his face. You shall therefore be careful to do the commandment and the statutes and the rules that I command you today. "And because you listen to these rules and keep and do them, the LORD your God will keep with you the covenant and the steadfast love that he swore to your fathers. He will love you, bless you, and multiply you. He will also bless the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground, your grain and your wine and your oil, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock, in the land that he swore to your fathers to give you. You shall be blessed above all peoples. There shall not be male or female barren among you or among your livestock. And the LORD will take away from you all sickness, and none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which you knew, will he inflict on you, but he will lay them on all who hate you."

Then He turned around and said what about them to Moses, after they 'hated' Him by building another 'god' to worship???

Deu 9:13-16 "Furthermore, the LORD said to me, 'I have seen this people, and behold, it is a stubborn people. Let me alone, that I may destroy them and blot out their name from under heaven. And I will make of you a nation mightier and greater than they.' So I turned and came down from the mountain, and the mountain was burning with fire. And the two tablets of the covenant were in my two hands. And I looked, and behold, you had sinned against the LORD your God. You had made yourselves a golden calf. You had turned aside quickly from the way that the LORD had commanded you."

Those who will been told "I never knew you" will bring it upon themselves. It is a sad, sad situation. And it is only because they decided they did not want to love Him. That is all. The whole law of God is fulfilled in this, "you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul". They will be 'blotted' out as if they had never been known.



Rev 3:1 "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: 'The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. "'I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.


Rev 3:2 Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.


Rev 3:3 Remember, then, what you received and heard(both of these words are past tense, that means they had received, and had heard). Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.


Rev 3:4 Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.


Rev 3:5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.


Rev 3:6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'

Jesus said I never knew you, How can He had Loved and died for those He never knew ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Have you actually read Matthew 7:20-24? Apparently not...

If you did, how could you write "it has nothing to do with their actions"?

Please read the context before you comment on the Word of God.

Regards

Jesus said I never Knew you. Of course He knew their actions, because He will Judge them some day, so I never knew you cannot refer to their actions, else Jesus is lying.

 

[Sparkey]

Jesus said I never Knew you. Of course He knew their actions, because He will Judge them some day, so I never knew you cannot refer to their actions, else Jesus is lying.

So, I'm interested. What do you make of my analogy?

Was the computer gamer justified in his statement, "Depart from me, I never knew you"?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Jesus stating I never knew you, carries with it the fact that He never Loved you or died for you.

 

[Strangelove]

Jesus stating I never knew you, carries with it the fact that He never Loved you or died for you.

Um...you desperately WANT it to carry that fact with it....

.......but it doesn't. It just doesn't.

 

[Nathan]

SBG57, I wish there was a way to describe it better. And God willing, it will come. But the simple fact is that it has already been described for you in some very basic terms.

You associate knowledge with intimate, deep, long lasting knowledge. You are trying to say that because Jesus died for them, then He knew them intimately. You are making it into an argument of only this particular people can be saved over another. When you do that, then it surely does not make sense. Because if He did indeed chose one people over another, purposefully, without giving them choice, then yes it would not make sense for Him to turn around and say that He never knew them. Why? Because under that theology they had no choice in the matter either way.

So there is no way it will ever make sense to you, I am sorry to say. But, if you consider it for a minute, the same way it does not make sense that He would tell those that He chose without their 'will' involved, it does not make sense that He would create some without the ability to ever be saved from their sins. What kind of love is that? God only loves some in the world? God only loves some in creation? We know that it is not true. Over and over we see that He wants to save ALL mankind. All sinners. We see He has NO pleasure in the death of the wicked, but yet you say He does.

There is no way we can make you believe it, and quite frankly there is no way God is going to make you believe it. I am truly sorry. I wish and pray that there will be some sort of light that will shine on the truth that you will see how it is that those who come to know the Lord as the Christ, the Messiah, and then turn their back on Him; how it is that He will tell them, "depart from Me, I never knew you". Hopefully one day you will understand.

 

[Strangelove]

....those who come to know the Lord as the Christ, the Messiah, and then turn their back on Him; how it is that He will tell them, "depart from Me, I never knew you".

I dont get it NateDog...?....?...?

Why would He say 'I never knew you'.......if they did once know Him and then turn their back?

Surely were talkin 'bout people who thought that He knew them but they were fake Christians so He never did. :

 

[francisdesales]

Jesus said I never Knew you. Of course He knew their actions, because He will Judge them some day, so I never knew you cannot refer to their actions, else Jesus is lying.

Interesting. Jesus "never knew you" but "of course He knew their actions".

That's funny... God knows about someone's actions, but doesn't know them...

Jesus is not lying, you aren't getting it, that's all.

It should be quite obvious that Jesus is not refering to a 'literal' knowledge, since as God, He is quite AWARE of EVERYONE... I do recall you saying you believe Jesus is God. So what sort of God doesn't know someone HE CREATED??? He knows them ALL, even down to the hair on their head. The verse, within context, speaks for itself. It is the attempt to wrench it out of context that makes it confusing to others. It is ALL about ACTION and doing the Will of the Father.

Regards

 

[Elijah674]

Ezek.33

[6] But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
[7] So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

[8] When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
[9] Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it;[ if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity;] but thou hast delivered thy soul.

[10] Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the [house] of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live?
(this is the Virgin HOUSE in total MEMBERSHIP. It HAS THIS WARNING. They could & did [pass] from Saved to REJECTED as a HOUSE. Yet, individual membership did AWAKEN & leave the Apostasy in Matt. 10:5-6 on.)

[11] Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

(And there can be NO Doubt of ones free/will & the second Eternal death here. Obad. 1:16)

[12] Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

[13] When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

[14] Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
[15] If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.

[16] None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
[17] Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
[18] When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.

[19] But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live therby.
[20] Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways. (see Eccl. 12:13-14)

.....

[30] Also, thou son of man, the children of thy people still are talking against thee by the walls and in the doors of the houses, and speak one to another, every one to his brother, saying, Come, I pray you, and hear what is the word that cometh forth from the LORD.
[31] And they come unto thee as a people cometh, and they sit before thee as my pople, and they hear my words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness.
(and what is new? Eccl. 3:15 with these of Rev. 17:1-5!)

[32] And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not.
[33] And when this cometh to pass, (lo, it will come,) then shall they know that a prophet hath been among them.

(And you can be sure that Ezekiel was a Prophet!)

 

[Nathan]

I dont get it NateDog...?....?...?

Why would He say 'I never knew you'.......if they did once know Him and then turn their back?

Surely were talkin 'bout people who thought that He knew them but they were fake Christians so He never did. :

Ezekiel 18 talks about it.

Eze 18:24 But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die.

When a believer, turns from his faith in God, and turns again to 'lawlessness', he is denying the saving power of the Spirit at work in his life. Christ came to save from sin. Here and now, and forevermore. When a person who has had the 'righteousness' of Christ imputed on them, and then turns out from underneath it, none of their 'righteousness' will be remembered.

I can not say that who Jesus is talking about will only be those who have turned their back on Him after receiving the knowledge of the truth, and tasting of the things to come. I believe the majority of who Jesus is referring to are those who indeed have never come to a saving faith. The ones who profess belief, but 'lawlessness' shows otherwise.

But that does not mean that we cannot just say that ONLY those who have never believed are the ones who Jesus is referring too. Francis said it best, God "knows" all mankind. But no, I am not saying that ONLY those who have come to know Christ are the ones He is talking about. I think the majority will be otherwise. And if you really want to rattle your brain, think about this passage and ponder it for a while;

Rom 10:10-18 "For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?" So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for "Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world."

Some just want to proclaim that only those "chosen" have heard the Gospel message. Therefore, those are the only ones who will believe. Because if someone hears the Gospel and does not believe...well...it would be ineffective....

HOG WASH!

That line of thinking is not Biblical. Plain black and white letters show us that all people have heard. We may not understand how, but somehow they have.

 

[Strangelove]

I can not say that who Jesus is talking about will only be those who have turned their back on Him after receiving the knowledge of the truth, and tasting of the things to come. I believe the majority of who Jesus is referring to are those who indeed have never come to a saving faith. The ones who profess belief, but 'lawlessness' shows otherwise.

But that does not mean that we cannot just say that ONLY those who have never believed are the ones who Jesus is referring too. Francis said it best, God "knows" all mankind. But no, I am not saying that ONLY those who have come to know Christ are the ones He is talking about. I think the majority will be otherwise. And if you really want to rattle your brain, think about this passage and ponder it for a while;

Well the reason I think Jesus is specifically talking about false Christians, people who think they are Christian and live in that state of falsness all their lives right up to His second coming....can be seen clearly if you look at the surrounding verses.

7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

He's talking about people who will confess his name without the works. This shows false faith.

7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and
in thy name done many wonderful works?

Again we see them calling on the Lord IN THAT DAY. So that has to be at the second advent no? So they are STILL Christians in their own eyes. Thinking they are doing good works just by tagging His name to stuff they do.

7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

All the verses before these are all talking about fruit and how you can tell a real Christian from a false one. So yes....I think Jesus is specifically addressing this issue.

But I can see that you kinda agree with me anyway so........