" I never knew you " --- Literal or Figurative

[Strangelove]

stranglove Look close at my words the Rabbi's except me as Noahide I did not say I am a Noahide going to Noahide meetings.
Thats a ridiculous inference !
Miffed !

Ok then...can I say your a follower of Noah's law?

 

[Sparkey]

Christ knew the people He died for.

Jn 10:

14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Those in Matt 7 23 were not of his Sheep that He knew ! They were religous and probably very sincere, but Matt 7:


23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They could not have been His Sheep, unless He lied !

So let's just turn this around and look at a story in real life that you may be more familiar with. We consider a man who had respect neither for himself, for God nor for women.

He wanted to take a woman to bed so he lied to her about himself, what he does for a living and his character.

She and he do bed but sure enough the truth comes out.

She says, "Leave me! I never knew you!"

Is she lying? Or was that man unknowable? An analogy is useful because it lines up in certain points, but not all. Of course this can not be likened in every point and I'm not trying to make Jesus into a fornicator, but the man who despised the truth is similar to the woman that Jesus said, "Depart from me, I never knew you," to.

Does this help?

 

[Elvispelvis]

I will tell you a story of my first encounter with Rabbi Green. I am an ETA Elvis Tribute Artist and was asked to perform at the Feast of Purim as the gentile guest when I asked the Rabbi ( who is an Elvis Nut) if Abraham
was a Jew , he looked at me in a strange, quizzical, look.
Why do you ask he said ?
If father Abraham came to this synagogue would you allow him to speak( as a Jew) to the congregation?

(Abraham is a Hebrew not a Jew!!)

Now, he said to me, who are you?

I said according to the law you must except anyone who answers the questions properly from the Torah.

Yes he agreed it did not matter if you are a Jew or not if you could answer the questions of the Rabbi's.

Since I have read and studied the old testament aprox 50 times I was able to not only answer all their questions
but I asked them question that they could not answer.

Then when I speak of the Christ in Isa 53 of their bible the conversation ends abruptly.

I promise you I do not follow the Rabbi's and I tell them as I stated many times BLINDNESS IN PART HAS HAPPENED TO THE JEWS.
They are not to happy with me when we talk of Meshiach.

 

[Strangelove]

I promise you I do not follow the Rabbi's and I tell them as I stated many times BLINDNESS IN PART HAS HAPPENED TO THE JEWS.
They are not to happy with me when we talk of Meshiach.

Do you or do you not follow the laws of Noah?

 

[savedbygrace57]

So let's just turn this around and look at a story in real life that you may be more familiar with. We consider a man who had respect neither for himself, for God nor for women.

He wanted to take a woman to bed so he lied to her about himself, what he does for a living and his character.

She and he do bed but sure enough the truth comes out.

She says, "Leave me! I never knew you!"

Is she lying? Or was that man unknowable? An analogy is useful because it lines up in certain points, but not all. Of course this can not be likened in every point and I'm not trying to make Jesus into a fornicator, but the man who despised the truth is similar to the woman that Jesus said, "Depart from me, I never knew you," to.

Does this help?

Those Jesus died for, He knew, says the scripture Jn 10:



14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Those in matt 7:23 He said He did not know, so He did not lay down His Life for them.

 

[sherri2]

To me it means, they were never his. Because he knows everyone. They might have been moving in his power, through the usual channels, but their hearts were never given to him. He never built a relationship with them because they never wanted one.

So lip service but a detached heart.

 

[Nathan]

Those Jesus died for, He knew, says the scripture Jn 10:



14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Those in matt 7:23 He said He did not know, so He did not lay down His Life for them.

Are Old Covenant sheep any different than New Covenant sheep? Are they "known" by Him any differently? Are they not all sheep? Did He lay His life down for Old Covenant sheep?

 

[francisdesales]

Jesus said depart from me, ye workers of iniquity, speaking to very religious people who had done works in his name, I never knew you. How can Christ had died for people He never knew ?

Indeed. It IS about doing things, the Will of the Father, glad you are coming around.

"workers of iniquity". What makes casting out demons and performing miraculous cures a "work of iniquity"??

Presumably, it must be the inner motivations, the pride that results from thinking one is the impetus behind such work. Placing pride before humility. The "work of the Father" is to obey His Will, not to take credit for God's gifts.

The issue is not about "being very religious", we have already established that equating "religious" to "hypocrite" is a sad misnomer, a false generalization that condemns ANYONE with any sort of piety and devotion to God, which is, indeed, the definition of religion...

The issue is quite clear and is throughout the Scriptures. Those who exalt themselves shall be humbled. Those who humble themselves shall be exalted. The Christ does not "know" those who exalt themselves, this is not the Will of the Father. It is not the work of casting out demons in of itself that is the problem, it is the hypocritical attitude of pride that goes with such who do not "know" Christ.

And WHO was Christ? Look at the cross and observe the Body of our Savior as He hangs upon it. Perhaps you'll get an idea of knowing Who He is by that EXTREME act of humility... THEN, you will know Him.

By the way, Christ died for ALL men. The bible itself says this. The "sin of the world". Not just the sin of His People, His elect, His Sheep, whatever. EVERYONE has access to the redemption that Christ won. That's why His Church, His Community, is catholic, universal. It is open to all men and women.

Regards

 

[smaller]

No shortage of condemning 'christians' to eternal death or torture in this thread.

Whew!

What is it that 'believers' don't understand about 'believers' falling victim to Satan?

Do you seriously NOT see that even in our present time?

IF SO, then WHY can't you see SATAN in these matters and show eternal judgment to damnation ONLY to the believers?

Can you NOT HEAR the CAPTURING SPIRIT speaking to Jesus from their CAPTIVE?

Think TWICE about this matter. Your own MIND may be a little deaf to the facts.

The inhabitation of PEOPLE by SATAN and DEVILS is more than quite pronounced in the New Testament Gospels. Nearly every poster in this thread can not seem to get a grip on this matter, and their JUDGMENT then only revolves around SLAVES OF THE DEVIL and completely IGNORES the CAPTURER of mens hearts.

Look to ANY of your individual 'sects' and you should see some of your own FRONT LINE PEOPLE being likewise CAPTURED.

I'll spare further terms of failure to hear.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Sparkey]

Do you think that Jesus was familiar with the book of Proverbs?

Perhaps he listened carefully when all were admonished, "Get wisdom! Get understanding! Do not forget, nor turn away from the words of my mouth. Do not forsake her, and she will preserve you; Love her, and she will keep you. Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom. And in all your getting get understanding. ... Take firm hold of instruction, do not let go;
Keep her, for she is your life."

What does the book of proverbs have to do with this thread, you may well ask. Read just a little further and I trust that will be made known. Solomon continues to instruct us but uses a stark contrast to speak of another "woman".​

"The lips of an immoral woman drip honey, and her mouth is smoother than oil; but in the end she is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a two-edged sword. her feet go down to death, her steps lay hold of hell [or Sheol]. Lest you ponder her path of life-- Her ways are unstable; you do not know them."

____________________________________

Is it possible that Jesus, will do as instructed and acknowledge that He does not know "her". Because she is unknowable --her ways are unstable. Is it possible that Wisdom itself speaks to those who will hear --that the adulterous and idolatrous of heart are the very ones to whom the Lord of all will say, "Depart from me," ??

Let all depart from sin now, that we do not hear the command to depart Him later. Since we are discussing Mt 7:23 it would probably do well to consider the difference between those who love the law and those who practice lawlessness, right?

~Sparrow

P.S.
[Micah 6:5, 8 NKJV]
O My people, remember now What Balak king of Moab counseled, And what Balaam the son of Beor answered him, From Acacia Grove to Gilgal, That you may know the righteousness of the LORD." ...

[8] "He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God?"



​

 

[savedbygrace57]

sherri:

To me it means, they were never his.

Absolutely, and those He died for and Loved was His Own Jn 13:

1Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

He never built a relationship with them because they never wanted one.

He never wanted one with them. They thought they has one with Him , listen to what they said and called Him

Matt 7:

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

I believe they thought they had a sincere relationship with Him, even called Him Lord.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Indeed. It IS about doing things, the Will of the Father, glad you are coming around.

"workers of iniquity". What makes casting out demons and performing miraculous cures a "work of iniquity"??

Presumably, it must be the inner motivations, the pride that results from thinking one is the impetus behind such work. Placing pride before humility. The "work of the Father" is to obey His Will, not to take credit for God's gifts.

The issue is not about "being very religious", we have already established that equating "religious" to "hypocrite" is a sad misnomer, a false generalization that condemns ANYONE with any sort of piety and devotion to God, which is, indeed, the definition of religion...

The issue is quite clear and is throughout the Scriptures. Those who exalt themselves shall be humbled. Those who humble themselves shall be exalted. The Christ does not "know" those who exalt themselves, this is not the Will of the Father. It is not the work of casting out demons in of itself that is the problem, it is the hypocritical attitude of pride that goes with such who do not "know" Christ.

And WHO was Christ? Look at the cross and observe the Body of our Savior as He hangs upon it. Perhaps you'll get an idea of knowing Who He is by that EXTREME act of humility... THEN, you will know Him.

By the way, Christ died for ALL men. The bible itself says this. The "sin of the world". Not just the sin of His People, His elect, His Sheep, whatever. EVERYONE has access to the redemption that Christ won. That's why His Church, His Community, is catholic, universal. It is open to all men and women.

Regards

Answer the question, How can Christ Love and Die for people He never Knew ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Are Old Covenant sheep any different than New Covenant sheep? Are they "known" by Him any differently? Are they not all sheep? Did He lay His life down for Old Covenant sheep?

All whom Christ died for are His Sheep, in the OT and NT.

 

[Elvispelvis]

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

A Tree and Its Fruit

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Elvispelvis
Lets look at Matt 7 in some detail to try to figure out the who, what ,where, when, and why.,

A good place to start is v 13 where it talks about the narrow gate and few there be that find it.

We can start to see the picture of the Judgment Seat of Christ where we must all go to give an account of what we did in this body.

Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

What we see before us is the separation of the sheep and the goats, when the goats are cast into utter darkness the world and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when they see Abraham in the kingdom of God.

Then we are told of the wide path which is easy to follow because there are no stop signs, the way is very wide
no need for turns or looking where your going in this path , you can do what ever you want, and say the devil made me do it!! On this path you pretend to live for others, in sheep clothing, to hide your true self, the wolf
all you want is pride of life, the lust of the flesh, money ,power, etc, but all done in sheep's clothing as leader
of the church, or office, or bank, legal institutions, politics, etc .

These people all claim to be religious. We collect money for God is there mantra.

Look closely and the story unfolds of the blind leading the blind, for wide is the path to destruction and many ,many there be that find it. if you are being taught by your church that many christians will be saved then
you do not believe the bible when you are told" only a few chosen. "

Then we are told how to tell if they are good or bad trees, from their fruit. We are given a yardstick to tell if
they are false prophets or not. Take a look at their actions not there words. So many christians are misled by
false preachers today because they believe what they are told, they listen to the words of the pastor and
dont look things up in the old testament to see if they are true or not. Modern religion does not wast to study the bible in Hebrew and Greek.
This is a direct commandment from the bible to study the old testament'

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
For those who ignore this they are doomed to be misled by false teachers.

Matt 7 v 15 they are ferocious wolves devouring the flock for their own purposes .
The leaders of the modern churches are evildoers leading the blind to destruction says the bible.
Again do not listen to there words but by their fruits you will know them. For the past 200 years the RC's have killed the Protestants and the Protestants kill the RC's in the name of God. That is their fruit.
Someone tells you go and kill Arabs, Jews, Muslims, Chinese, etc and people blindly follow their leaders even
though God says thou shall not kill.
Lord did we not prophecy in thy name .
These are not obscure christians hiding in the shadows , these are all the christian leaders and the Kings of the earth gathered to attack Yahshua the Jew when He rejects all the christian leaders.
Psa 2:1 ¶ Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, [saying],

Psa 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

When Yahshua rejects them the Kings and the rulers attack Him just like the last time.

We have done miracles in your name they shout. As i have been saying ther are no such things as men performing
miracles in modern times and Yahshua agrees with me when He says no you did not perform miracles.
We have cast out demons in your name they cry. As i have been saying there are no demons to cast out, those are just old wives tales, to scare people into the churches, it has worked, many many believe in demons!!
There is no record of the devil or demons in the old testament. Yahshua rejects them when they say they cast out demons because He knows there is no such thing.
Why would you argue that they exist when Yahshua rejects those who make that claim?
One thing you can be sure of the religious leaders the rulers the kings of the earth are rejected at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

In the light of these verses do you think it wise to say there are men are performing miracles,and casting out demons when clearly these people are rejected by Yahshua.

Please study the old testament and may God bless your study.
Pray to have your eyes opened and your ears to hear, before you read your bible.

 

[smaller]

Answer the question, How can Christ Love and Die for people He never Knew ?

Calvinists and Reformed do not even KNOW if they are SHEEP. ALL such groups know that they COULD be a TARE and that they must PERSEVERE to the END to prove their sheephood.

None of you can POSSIBLY know who is A SHEEP by your doctrines.

s

 

[Sparkey]

So basically what I hear you saying is that Jesus was a hypocrite when he told others to love their enemies.

He never loved them? He didn't die for them? HUH?

Just because somebody refuses a gift, it does NOT mean that the gift was not offered. The offer of a pardon imputes guilt. Your conclusions are in error.

 

[savedbygrace57]

smaller:

Calvinists and Reformed do not even KNOW if they are SHEEP.

What scripture says that ? Even though I am neither, but show us the scripture that says one cannot know they are a believer in Christ, for that is what a Sheep is.

I suppose the psalmist David lied when He said we are the sheep of your pasture.

100:

3Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

Peter Lied when He said of believers 1 pet 1:



18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

According to your human reasoning, no one can know if they have been redeemed by the blood of Christ.

The word know is the greek word:

eidō and means:

to see

a) to perceive with the eyes
b) to perceive by any of the senses
c) to perceive, notice, discern, discover
d) to see
1) i.e. to turn the eyes, the mind, the attention to anything
2) to pay attention, observe
3) to see about something
a) i.e. to ascertain what must be done about it
4) to inspect, examine
5) to look at, behold
e) to experience any state or condition[i.e redemption]
f) to see i.e. have an interview with, to visit
2) to know
a) to know of anything
b) to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive

And the word is in the Perfect Tense in the greek, denoting a once and for all knowing !

Believers have been given [ perfect tense] an Understanding 1 jn 5:

20And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

So I reject your statement as unbiblical, and lacking in the Truth. I am so glad I am not part of your religion.

 

[francisdesales]

Answer the question, How can Christ Love and Die for people He never Knew ?

I think you owe me an answer first before we get sidetracked on whether Christ died for only the elect or not...

He knew His Sheep that He specifically said He layed down His life for.

Jn 10:

14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So, those He never knew, He never layed down His life for.

This response is based upon convoluted and faulty logic...

Jesus doesn't say "I only died for my sheep". He lays His life down for EVERYONE, whether they were His sheep or not. You added that last sentence of faulty logic that is based upon your false idea that Jesus only died for the elect - when clearly, Christ died for the sin of the world - ALL mankind. Your conclusion is false and leads to an utterly abhorent idea called "fate", a pagan notion long ago refuted by Christianity of the first century.

Regards

 

[savedbygrace57]

So basically what I hear you saying is that Jesus was a hypocrite when he told others to love their enemies.

He never loved them? He didn't die for them? HUH?

Just because somebody refuses a gift, it does NOT mean that the gift was not offered. The offer of a pardon imputes guilt. Your conclusions are in error.

No Jesus said I never knew you. How can you Love someone you say to them, I never knew you ?

Jesus Christ says He knew His Sheep that He died for Jn 10:

14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So common reason tells us that those who He never knew, could not be of the sheep He knew and layed down His Life for.

 

[savedbygrace57]

I think you owe me an answer first before we get sidetracked on whether Christ died for only the elect or not...

You have my answer, its not what you want, but its in the form of this question:

How can Christ Love and Die for people He never Knew ?