If God Loved everyone !

[shad]

This is for shad and savedbygrace...

I'm not following. From the verse, a few posts up, it said that "when we were enemies of god", . . . isn't that "being unholy"?

He is giving us chance to know Him since we did not know God and His teachings.

More importantly, why does god have the right to do whatever he wants [specifically hating some, thus sending them to hell for is own purpose]?

Because He is the Creator, Orion. He desires to have peaceful and loving relationship with His creation. We can be in His kingdom with that condition if we want. He does not force us to be with Him so if we dont want God's condition, we perish.

 

[Orion]

But what gives god the right to make unreasonable expectations to creatures he made to be imperfect? And as for "giving us a chance", . . . not really. All of us ONLY have the opinions of others (including words written in scrolls, canonized).

My question still is, . . . according to some on here, there are those who are "created for destruction for god's purpose and pleasure". . . . . Why is that?

 

[shad]

But what gives god the right to make unreasonable expectations to creatures he made to be imperfect? And as for "giving us a chance", . . . not really. All of us ONLY have the opinions of others (including words written in scrolls, canonized).

He has right because He is the Creator. Why dont you understand? We Christians are based on our beliefs according to this. If you are not willing to believe God is creator of the whole universe, you will not get any answers. You are just waisting your time and everyone else's.

My question still is, . . . according to some on here, there are those who are "created for destruction for god's purpose and pleasure". . . . . Why is that?

Not everyone believes this Orion. If you are interested in knowing the Bible and God, you have to study it for yourself. You cannot rely on everyone else, friend.

And again, if you are not truly wanting to know God, you will not get the whole truth. No one can mock God.

 

[RND]

Not everyone believes this Orion. If you are interested in knowing the Bible and God, you have to study it for yourself. You cannot rely on everyone else, friend.

And again, if you are not truly wanting to know God, you will not get the whole truth. No one can mock God.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

He's been told this before. Without the Holy Spirit he has no chance of understanding the doctrine of God.

 

[Orion]

He has right because He is the Creator. Why dont you understand? We Christians are based on our beliefs according to this. If you are not willing to believe God is creator of the whole universe, you will not get any answers. You are just waisting your time and everyone else's.

Even if he created everything, . . . I am asking what gives him the right to do whatever he wants, regardless? For argument sake, creating living beings bounds the creator [whomever it may be] to certain moral and ethical boundaries that, if said creater is good, must follow. You and your spouse are well within your rights to create a baby, but when you do, you are bound to certain laws, rules, and codes of conduct. There are many things that you cannot do morally, ethically, or legally.

Not everyone believes this Orion. If you are interested in knowing the Bible and God, you have to study it for yourself. You cannot rely on everyone else, friend.

And again, if you are not truly wanting to know God, you will not get the whole truth. No one can mock God.

Let me make this clear. I mock NO god. I ask questions in a frank matter concerning what I've heard from christians, from what I read in the bible, and/or ideas I stumble across while researching. I don't see the bible as "getting to know God" either. I see no reason to believe that it is.

 

[Orion]

Not everyone believes this Orion. If you are interested in knowing the Bible and God, you have to study it for yourself. You cannot rely on everyone else, friend.

And again, if you are not truly wanting to know God, you will not get the whole truth. No one can mock God.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

He's been told this before. Without the Holy Spirit he has no chance of understanding the doctrine of God.

And I can see just how well this "spiritual discernment" works as argument after argument [on theological matters] happen between two denominations of christians on this and other similar forums.

 

[shad]

There are many things that you cannot do morally, ethically, or legally.

We cannot argue with you anymore because you are not willing to know God, it seems. You will go into the Bible if you truly want to know God.

Let me make this clear. I mock NO god.

If you think you can learn about God without reading the Bible you are mocking God.

.

 

[RND]

Not everyone believes this Orion. If you are interested in knowing the Bible and God, you have to study it for yourself. You cannot rely on everyone else, friend.

And again, if you are not truly wanting to know God, you will not get the whole truth. No one can mock God.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

He's been told this before. Without the Holy Spirit he has no chance of understanding the doctrine of God.

And I can see just how well this "spiritual discernment" works as argument after argument [on theological matters] happen between two denominations of christians on this and other similar forums.

You would then be assuming that everyone is graced by the Holy Spirit with the same level of understanding; which they aren't - but that doesn't make one "less" Christian one from the other. Just as some men and physically stronger than another, or mentally more acute than another son to is the gift of the Holy Spirit given.

Your problem is you reject the calling of the Holy Spirit based on what you "see" from others instead of seeking God in spirit and in truth for yourself.

 

[Orion]

There are many things that you cannot do morally, ethically, or legally.

We cannot argue with you anymore because you are not willing to know God, it seems. You will go into the Bible if you truly want to know God.

Let me make this clear. I mock NO god.

If you think you can learn about God without reading the Bible you are mocking God.

.

Circular reasoning doesn't make it true. But if you want to leave it with "I don't get my questions answered because I'm not willing to know god", then there really isn't anything to discuss. What I don't understand is why you can't answer the questions yourself? They aren't hard questions. Use your knowledge of god to help you.

 

[Orion]

You would then be assuming that everyone is graced by the Holy Spirit with the same level of understanding; which they aren't - but that doesn't make one "less" Christian one from the other. Just as some men and physically stronger than another, or mentally more acute than another son to is the gift of the Holy Spirit given.

Your problem is you reject the calling of the Holy Spirit based on what you "see" from others instead of seeking God in spirit and in truth for yourself.

Do you see the slippery slope you're on? You claim that your denomination IS "graced" and another isn't. They say the same about yours.

And, if I actually heard THE holy spirit, that would be different. All I have are words in a book, and people who believe it. That doesn't at ALL translate into "god is wanting my company". When a person earnestly tries for years to speak with god and continually came away with silence, you get to the point where you understand that nothing of value was there.

 

[shad]

What I don't understand is why you can't answer the questions yourself?

I will not push my ideas to new Christians. If you are not truly interested in knowing God, you will not believe no matter what anyone say to you. You will find excuses to reject things you dont want to hear. I have been telling young and new Christians to read the Bible. Thats what I say to you too. Starting with New Testament to get the idea what Jesus is teaching.

Jesus' love, shad.

 

[glorydaz]

Christ died for the sins of the whole world...even those who don't believe in Him.
The price has been paid...all one needs to do is believe.
That's what faith is all about.
God not only gave all men a measure of faith so they are able to believe, but as his creatures, we need only look around us to see the Creator.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Being the Creator, God has a "right" to do anything He likes, but God is more than fair.
He did not create some to go to perdition...being God, he just knows who will refuse to use their measure of faith and repent of their sins and so be saved. God gives blessings to the just and the unjust alike...the goodness of God is one way He draws men to Himself. He takes no pleasure in having his sacrifice ignored, and calls on all men everywhere to repent.

Some will use the Word to say God only calls certain people the "elect"...they use a verse such as this...

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

They neglect to read the following verse which explains how God draws men to Himself. They come by hearing the Word of God...through the foolishness of preaching...from reading the Bible.

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

 

[glorydaz]

Obviously we read scripture from different perspectives.

Mine says that God gives man life. In fact I believe that God is the author of all things, but without first being born of God, man has no life, no belief, no faith, no righteousness.
And we differ since you believe that man can choose to be born of God. But while we differ I am content in the knowledge of what Christ achieved through calvary ...

God gave us a free will so we could choose Him.

Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

 

[RND]

Do you see the slippery slope you're on? You claim that your denomination IS "graced" and another isn't. They say the same about yours.

I've never brought up anyone's denomination in this thread nor do I judge other Christians or their Christianity based on their denomination. That's not my job. While I may discuss the legitimacy of the message taught by certain denominations I do not judge individuals.

And, if I actually heard THE holy spirit, that would be different.

What you like to hear? If one isn't receptive to Jesus Christ being the Risen Savior and Son of God they will never hear from the HS.

All I have are words in a book, and people who believe it.

That's all any of us had to start.

That doesn't at ALL translate into "god is wanting my company". When a person earnestly tries for years to speak with god and continually came away with silence, you get to the point where you understand that nothing of value was there.

I think that depends on what your expectation might have been. But I suspect you haven't thought that God may be speaking to you in the beautiful sunsets He gives out, or the voice of a baby, or the love of a pet, or the fact you ate today or.....

 

[Orion]

What I don't understand is why you can't answer the questions yourself?

I will not push my ideas to new Christians. If you are not truly interested in knowing God, you will not believe no matter what anyone say to you. You will find excuses to reject things you dont want to hear. I have been telling young and new Christians to read the Bible. Thats what I say to you too. Starting with New Testament to get the idea what Jesus is teaching.

Jesus' love, shad.

I'm not a "new christian". . . I deconverted. If your answers make sense, then why would you think I would summarily reject them? Feel free to give me short and to the point answers.

 

[Orion]

I've never brought up anyone's denomination in this thread nor do I judge other Christians or their Christianity based on their denomination. That's not my job. While I may discuss the legitimacy of the message taught by certain denominations I do not judge individuals.

But you did. You said, "You would then be assuming that everyone is graced by the Holy Spirit with the same level of understanding; which they aren't ...." . . . meaning that some have communication and others don't. What I'm getting at is that entire denominations disagree with other denominations, yet both believe that they are receiving their insight via "spiritual discernment". What up?

I think that depends on what your expectation might have been. But I suspect you haven't thought that God may be speaking to you in the beautiful sunsets He gives out, or the voice of a baby, or the love of a pet, or the fact you ate today or.....

So, . . . the powerful god of the universe chooses to only show himself in the most mundane ways, . . . and really . . . SO generalized that it can't be seen as "personal" at all. A "babies voice", "a pet", "eating", . . . . if you choose to see these as "god speaking to you", and you're good with that, then that's fine. For ME, . . . they don't. Neither does "the sunrise/sunset" [which, to be specific, isn't given out, but is just the result of planetary spin and a clear sky].

 

[shad]

What I don't understand is why you can't answer the questions yourself?

I will not push my ideas to new Christians. If you are not truly interested in knowing God, you will not believe no matter what anyone say to you. You will find excuses to reject things you dont want to hear. I have been telling young and new Christians to read the Bible. Thats what I say to you too. Starting with New Testament to get the idea what Jesus is teaching.

Jesus' love, shad.

I'm not a "new christian". . . I deconverted. If your answers make sense, then why would you think I would summarily reject them? Feel free to give me short and to the point answers.

Christisns believe what the Bible says and so do I. The Scripture says if we dont believe in God, He will not reveal the truth. So no matter what I say you would not believe it if you dont like it.

You are in circular arguments, friend.

 

[shad]

But you did. You said, "You would then be assuming that everyone is graced by the Holy Spirit with the same level of understanding; which they aren't ...." . . . meaning that some have communication and others don't. What I'm getting at is that entire denominations disagree with other denominations, yet both believe that they are receiving their insight via "spiritual discernment". What up?

You see Orion, you will get satisfactory answers if you sincerely trust in God and want the whole truth. Not everyone is true Christians. Those questions you have been asking is in the Bible, friend.

Not everyone who are claiming to be Christians are not truly christians; this is in the Bible too.

If you are truly seeking God and true answers, you will not rely on what anyone says but go directly into God's Word which is the Bible. You seem not to take the time to know the Bible; this indicates your insincerity.

I am sorry if this is harsh to you but this is my honest and sincere answer to you.

I will not bother you anymore because I repeated the similar things many times, already.

love, shad.

 

[Orion]

I'M being circular??? :o Okay. Just wanting someone to answer my questions, How that can be circular, I'll never know, but whatever. As for "what I'll like", that is irrelevant. I'm wanting YOUR opinion on a few questions.

If you don't know how to answer them, then say so. I'll be good with that.

So, somehow, these denominations, that aren't yours, are fooling themselves and don't know it. . . . though they produce scriptures of their own to back their side?


My question has to do with the moral/ethical stance of a creator and what can and cannot be done, regardless of who made what.

 

[shad]

I'M being circular??? :o Okay. Just wanting someone to answer my questions, How that can be circular, I'll never know, but whatever. As for "what I'll like", that is irrelevant. I'm wanting YOUR opinion and a few questions.

If you don't know how to answer them, then say so. I'll be good with that.

How many times have you said, this one said this and this one said that? take a look at the hell. Most Christians believe you will be in burning hell and tortured forever if you dont believe in Jesus. I dont believe that's what the Bible says. So you take what is sound good to you? It seems like it.

You have confidence in the Holy Spirit to know the truth if you are truly seeking God and serving Him with all your might. Most of us read the Bible but we still read differently. But we all will have consequences for not following the Truth. We cannot blame anyone for our disobedience because we dont know the truth.