If God Loved everyone !

[RND]

He has already given you evidence of His existence and his love - but you don't acknowledge it so what should God do?

No, . . . what there IS . . . is the words of what men thousands of years ago stated. That isn't true evidence of who god really is. There is a big difference.

I'm not talking about the "written evidence" I'm talking about the physical. You reject God based on the fact that you reject the "physical" evidence He has given.

[quote:1w5hiskw]I'm not an atheist.

What "god" then do you believe in?

I'm not saying "I don't believe in god".

When you make statements that a baby's voice or a pet unconditional love or a sunset/sunrise are not evidence of God's existence then I would have to conclude you truly don't believe in God.

I don't take the words of [bronze/iron age] men or the personal convictions of the followers as "who god really is".

Fine. Then at least believe in the physical evidence! But not only do you reject His word you reject the physical evidence.

Most of my problems are with what was written and believed for millenias.

[/quote:1w5hiskw] That I already knew. Your problem seems to stem from your complete rejection of God - the written word and the physical evidence.

Tell me Orion have you ever given much thought that the many people that have discussed God with you over the time you have been on different forums were sent by God to try to get you to change your mind?

 

[RND]

The "for example"-ed Noah flood. The Chick tract showed the flood waters rising and eventually the arms of a mother being the only part of her sticking out of the water as she held up [out of the water] an infant.

So you have it in your mind that just because an infant may have died the way the Chick tract showed that God didn't save the infant?

Just because someone dies doesn't mean that God didn't or doesn't love them. There are a number of other issues. Abraham and Isaiac, Job, Jephthah, destruction while trekking to "the promised land", just to name a few.

You'd have to give me specific comments for me to answer. However, when I see you mention Jephthah I think you may have a misconception about this story in the book of Judges.

And that's where you are making a huge mistake. You want to know the spiritual things of God without surrendering to the spiritual nature that God is willing to give to you. Kinda like wanting to have your cake and eat it too.[/qoute]
[quote:1nif95x9]
Oh, . . . you see, that's where you and I think oppositely. Knowledge should always come before "surrendering to something".

Right, it should. Are you willing to totally surrender to God to get to know Him?

But it is the individuals who made up that specific denomination's doctrine that differs from your own, though. That's the point that I am trying to make.

Might be. But does the fact that someone may be convicted in their heart of a particular doctrine contrary to my belief of what the Bible may teach impact their walk with Christ? God is interested in what we do with His Son.

And that's why I question the "spiritual discernment" thing, because like THIS topic fell into, one side said that "god loved everyone", another side said that "god did NOT love everyone, but actually hates some". [and actually, it was why I posted here].

[/quote:1nif95x9] The fact that there are some that preach God hates others obviously haven't read their Bibles much - He makes the rain fall and the sun rise on both the wicked and the just.

Mat 5:43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so? Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Anyone preaching something contrary to this is not preaching the word of God.

 

[RND]

BTW, . . . I neither despise nor hate any of you!!!!

Thanks. Likewise.

 

[glorydaz]

But it is the individuals who made up that specific denomination's doctrine that differs from your own, though. That's the point that I am trying to make. And that's why I question the "spiritual discernment" thing, because like THIS topic fell into, one side said that "god loved everyone", another side said that "god did NOT love everyone, but actually hates some". [and actually, it was why I posted here].

This is why we fight so hard to make sure the true character of God is preached.
To even put forth a doctrine that God does not love everyone is an error that turns people away from God rather than draws them near. If you read the Word, it's filled with God's love and mercy. The Gospel is told forth for the very purpose of drawing men to God...not just some men, but all men, so all can have access to eternal life. God calls all men to repentance...not willing that any should perish.
God is not a respecter of persons...He's paid the price for man's sin...a free gift that just needs to be accepted.

Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands. Serve the LORD with gladness: come before his presence with singing. Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name. For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.

 

[Orion]

See, I would like to think that, but I don't see any love for those who god helped Joshua, David, etc. kill. War IS war, but not everyone is a combatant. And as far as Job, Jephthah, or Abraham and Isaiac, this really isn't the thread for discussing them (in light of the OP topic), but I've read the stories and know the issues/problems [ethical/moral] with it.

As for looking at natural things as "proof of god", there really is a flaw with that. . . . . because anyone could rightfully say, "which god"? There are many of them. As for rejecting or hating any specific god, . . . I honestly don't have enough to go on to make that serious of a decision, . . . especially in lue of what may have been written down and canonized.

 

[shad]

Absolutely. As best as I knew how. Having said that, . . . no one can do it perfectly. No one actually "serves with all their might". If they did, they would never sit in front of a TV at all. Every waking moment would all be about making disciples. Even during eating, . . . you would find people EVERY time to feed and tell them about Jesus. You would sell all you had and give it to the poor. You would never do anything for yourself that was fun, because it would be time that could have been spent on reaching one more soul. I could go on, but I trust you get my point. Yes, I fully believed.

May ask you how you have get rid of all secular way of living?

thank you.

 

[glorydaz]

See, I would like to think that, but I don't see any love for those who god helped Joshua, David, etc. kill. War IS war, but not everyone is a combatant. And as far as Job, Jephthah, or Abraham and Isaiac, this really isn't the thread for discussing them (in light of the OP topic), but I've read the stories and know the issues/problems [ethical/moral] with it.

As for looking at natural things as "proof of god", there really is a flaw with that. . . . . because anyone could rightfully say, "which god"? There are many of them. As for rejecting or hating any specific god, . . . I honestly don't have enough to go on to make that serious of a decision, . . . especially in lue of what may have been written down and canonized.

There are no other Gods. If I worship a tree, does that make it God?

Our short season on this earth is unimportant. God knows who are His...if they get killed, they enter into glory for eternity. Children get killed by abortionists every second, but go instantly to be with God. Ungodly men get killed..why should the Lord allow them more time on earth to inflict damage on the rest of us? They've been given their chance to repent. Innocents are God's and have moved on to a better place. God is merciful and just in ways we can never even comprehend.

 

[Orion]

Absolutely. As best as I knew how. Having said that, . . . no one can do it perfectly. No one actually "serves with all their might". If they did, they would never sit in front of a TV at all. Every waking moment would all be about making disciples. Even during eating, . . . you would find people EVERY time to feed and tell them about Jesus. You would sell all you had and give it to the poor. You would never do anything for yourself that was fun, because it would be time that could have been spent on reaching one more soul. I could go on, but I trust you get my point. Yes, I fully believed.

May ask you how you have get rid of all secular way of living?

thank you.

I don't. . . . . and neither do most people.

 

[Orion]

There are no other Gods. If I worship a tree, does that make it God?

Our short season on this earth is unimportant. God knows who are His...if they get killed, they enter into glory for eternity. Children get killed by abortionists every second, but go instantly to be with God. Ungodly men get killed..why should the Lord allow them more time on earth to inflict damage on the rest of us? They've been given their chance to repent. Innocents are God's and have moved on to a better place. God is merciful and just in ways we can never even comprehend.

You've missed the point. No one can say with assurance that their god is THE true god. Allah is for some [unfortunately]. But for them, it is absolutely true.

On your second paragraph, . . . . . how do you really know any of that?

 

[glorydaz]

There are no other Gods. If I worship a tree, does that make it God?

Our short season on this earth is unimportant. God knows who are His...if they get killed, they enter into glory for eternity. Children get killed by abortionists every second, but go instantly to be with God. Ungodly men get killed..why should the Lord allow them more time on earth to inflict damage on the rest of us? They've been given their chance to repent. Innocents are God's and have moved on to a better place. God is merciful and just in ways we can never even comprehend.

You've missed the point. No one can say with assurance that their god is THE true god. Allah is for some [unfortunately]. But for them, it is absolutely true.

On your second paragraph, . . . . . how do you really know any of that?

Only those who serve the One True God can have that assurance.
He is the only one who answers prayer. The others don't exist, so they can't do a thing.

As far as how I know the rest of what I posted...I know because I know the One True God and His character. I read His Word...it answers all the questions anyone can have.

 

[glorydaz]

Absolutely. As best as I knew how. Having said that, . . . no one can do it perfectly. No one actually "serves with all their might". If they did, they would never sit in front of a TV at all. Every waking moment would all be about making disciples. Even during eating, . . . you would find people EVERY time to feed and tell them about Jesus. You would sell all you had and give it to the poor. You would never do anything for yourself that was fun, because it would be time that could have been spent on reaching one more soul. I could go on, but I trust you get my point. Yes, I fully believed.

May ask you how you have get rid of all secular way of living?

thank you.

I don't. . . . . and neither do most people.

Those who do all for the glory of God can quite easily.

 

[shad]

I don't. . . . . and neither do most people.

You see Orion, this is the problem and I know many churchgoers don't. This kind of faith is showing their lack of commitment to God and Jesus.

No, no one is perfect and no one will be serving God with all their might but God is expecting us to do our best to be holy and righteous. In order to be holy and righteous, we have to get rid of our old selves as much as we can and live for God and Jesus.

I still have to get rid of my old habits and many other ways to be holy, we have to constantly strive to be holy until we die. We will be closer and closer to God as we get older if we strive to be holy and righteous. This is a life long struggle because we have a sinful nature.

 

[glorydaz]

I don't. . . . . and neither do most people.

You see Orion, this is the problem and I know many churchgoers don't. This kind of faith is showing their lack of commitment to God and Jesus.

No, no one is perfect and no one will be serving God with all their might but God is expecting us to do our best to be holy and righteous. In order to be holy and righteous, we have to get rid of our old selves as much as we can and live for God and Jesus.

I still have to get rid of my old habits and many other ways to be holy, we have to constantly strive to be holy until we die. We will be closer and closer to God as we get older if we strive to be holy and righteous. This is a life long struggle because we a have sinful nature.

You're right. Even Paul said what he didn't want to do, he did, and what he wanted to do, he didn't.
Instead of being called our Christian walk, it should be called our walk, stumble, get up, and walk on. :biglaugh

 

[Orion]

Only those who serve the One True God can have that assurance.
He is the only one who answers prayer. The others don't exist, so they can't do a thing.

Funny you should mention that. Out of curiosity, I asked some non-christians (doesn't matter their religion) if they had experienced healings in their belief system. They had.

As far as how I know the rest of what I posted...I know because I know the One True God and His character. I read His Word...it answers all the questions anyone can have.

If that works for you, then that's fine.

 

[glorydaz]

Only those who serve the One True God can have that assurance.
He is the only one who answers prayer. The others don't exist, so they can't do a thing.

Funny you should mention that. Out of curiosity, I asked some non-christians (doesn't matter their religion) if they had experienced healings in their belief system. They had.

As far as how I know the rest of what I posted...I know because I know the One True God and His character. I read His Word...it answers all the questions anyone can have.

If that works for you, then that's fine.

I've never heard of a belief system healing anyone.
Are you talking herbs, meditation, or what?

Other religions are about people's best efforts to reach God.
Christianity is God's supreme effort to reach us.

 

[Orion]

Oh, come on. . . . "belief system" is just the words I chose. You know what I mean. I just used those words rather than mentioning the specifics.

To answer your question, . . . they stated actual healings. Not herbs, meditation, or other benign type stuff. Also, "other people's religion" isn't about "them looking for God". Many of them have found their deity and are quite happy with them. I have not, but these people I have talked to are happy where they are.

 

[glorydaz]

Oh, come on. . . . "belief system" is just the words I chose. You know what I mean. I just used those words rather than mentioning the specifics.

To answer your question, . . . they stated actual healings. Not herbs, meditation, or other benign type stuff. Also, "other people's religion" isn't about "them looking for God". Many of them have found their deity and are quite happy with them. I have not, but these people I have talked to are happy where they are.

Then you shouldn't mind sharing who that deity is.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The world of the elect !

The World of the elect ! -

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As stated already, there is a ungodly condemned world per 1 cor 11 32, 1 jn 5:

19And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

Then there is a world that God through Jesus Christ will save, and has saved..

Jn 6:

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Notice what Jesus says, there is a world in which He gives life [spiritual] to..

This is not as many false preachers preach, even on this board, this is not an offer of life, a chance at life, but a giving of life..

An offer is something that one may refuse, as in refusing a offer for help or aid, but to give something implies the successful reception of that given, for it has been communicated effectually..

if something is merely offered and refused, then its not given..but Jesus Christ was actually, as the bread of life, giving life to the world, but what world ?


It was the world of His sheep which He gave life to..Jn 10:

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they [sheep] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand..

The sheep who here Jesus gives eternal life..are the same world of Jn 6:33, whom He gives life to..

The same world, Jesus came to save Jn 3:

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: The world of the elect !

This is not as many false preachers preach, even on this board, this is not an offer of life, a chance at life, but a giving of life..

Be careful....an accusation such as this will often come back to haunt you. :yes
Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. God calls on all men to repent.
The Gospel is preached to all nations. Jesus died so that all men might have access to eternal life.
Some reject His saving grace. Others repent and turn to Him. It isn't that difficult to understand.

It was the world of His sheep which He gave life to..Jn 10:

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they [sheep] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand..
The sheep who here Jesus gives eternal life..are the same world of Jn 6:33, whom He gives life to..
The same world, Jesus came to save Jn 3:

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

No, you're limiting the work of the cross. You're preaching the doctrine of limited atonement.
You're also trying to give a new meaning to "world"....and "all men".

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Would you like to give a new meaning to "every man" too, because that's who Christ died for.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

I hate it when people insist on taking away from Christ's work on the cross. :bigfrown

 

[savedbygrace57]

2 cor 5:19

2 cor 5:

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

What world is this ? For this particular world does not have its tresspasses imputed or charged to them, so it surely cannot mean men and women who will shortly appear before the great white Throne Judgment..

rev 20:

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.


12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Again, these certainly cannot be of the world paul refers to in 2 cor 5 19..

For those at the White Throne, it appears that their sins had been imputed to them..,

But in 2 cor 5 19, we have the reconciled world, one that has been reconciled unto God ! How ? lets look at rom 5:

10For if, when we [the church or called ones] were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

They were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, because their sins had not been imputed to them, but unto Him..

So there is a reconcied world, and a condemned world 1 cor 11:

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

You see, the condemend world and the reconciled world are two different worlds..

You have a saved world Jn 3 17 and a ungodly world 2 pet 2 5..

That ungodly world, is the world of the serpents seed gen 3:

14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The reconciled world has had their sins, not imputed to them, but to the Son of God their shepherd and Surety..

The sins of the serpent seed were not laid to the charge of the Son of God, for He never sustained a kinsmen redeemer relationship with the devil and his children..