If God Loved everyone !

[savedbygrace57]

glory says:

God calls all men to repent

Yeah, all men of the elect..

 

[Benoni]

There is no such thing in the Bible as man having a freewill or choice when it comes to salvation. God is not calling all people now, if God does not call you you do not have the ability/freewill/choice to come.


When it comes to carnal mans having a desire to walk and talk with God he is dead from that realm for he has no spiritual life to see, or hear God.

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 3:11 (AMP) No one understands [no one intelligently discerns or comprehends]; no one seeks out God.

Romans 3:11 (NCV) 11 There is no one who understands.
There is no one who looks to God for help.

This is why God must draw us (John 6:44) or quicken us out of our carnal nature and we have no freewill or choice within this human naked state to do this on our own. Notice the context of Ephesians 2 where God’s Spirit took seven verses to lay down the foundation of how man’s spiritual death state and God must quicken us. (Eph. 6:17). Then the writer to the Hebrews declares that the sword of God’s word is "QUICK ."Quick means living and active — LIFE-GIVING!

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; ("For the word of God that speaks is alive and full of power — making it active, operative, energizing and effective; it is sharper than any two-edged sword" (Heb. 4:12, Amplified).

2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (3) (by grace ye are saved
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8For by grace are ye (4) saved through faith; (5) and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast

 

[francisdesales]

francis:

Still am not seeing the reason to add on to what the bible says...

I am adding bible, where do you think 2 tim 2:

10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

You think I found this in the funny papers ?

Just your interpretations...

Your interpretations are unwarranted, based upon your inability to actually RESPOND to Romans 5:15-19.

I don't know, perhaps you think Adam's sin was more encompassing and powerful than Jesus' sacrifice on the cross?

Adam effected ALL men.

Jesus sacrifice must ALSO effect all men.

The word "as" is key to understand this.

See what happens when we actually read the Scriptures, rather than just parrot them???

 

[francisdesales]

Still am not seeing the reason to add on to what the bible says...

I am adding bible, where do you think 2 tim 2:

10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

You think I found this in the funny papers ?

God calls all men to repent, and draws them with His Word.
It therefore behooves us to preach the whole Word so they can turn to Him and partake of the glories He's prepared for those who love Him. When we paint an inaccurate picture of God...we are responsible for turning people away from Him...we're to preach the Word so they will see our loving Saviour as He is...not how some men have taught because of doctrine's according to their own understanding.

Agree. Jesus preached to all men, even the reprobate and those who refused to hear Him. He said the Word of God would fall upon ALL men, and only with some, fruit would come forth. Clearly, if God only wanted to "save the elect", would He have bothered to teach to EVERYONE? Rain down His graces upon the good AND evil? Would He say that He desire ALL men to be saved (nothing about the elect only)? Would He say that He does NOT desire the death of the wicked??? Would His Son say He came for the sin of the WORLD (rather than just the elect's sin)?

No, God said what He meant, He desires all men to be saved and to come into union with Him in heaven. God ALSO desires that men make a choice on whether to respond in love or not... Love demands a willing partner.

Regards

 

[savedbygrace57]

franc says:

Adam effected ALL men.

Adam was a Son of God by creation lk 3 38, so His Fall effected His seed in Him, the elect Sons of God..

 

[savedbygrace57]

fran says:

Agree. Jesus preached to all men, even the reprobate

Yes He did, but for different purposes..His preaching to the reprobate was not to save them, but to blind them jn 9:

39And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

 

[Orion]

franc says:

Adam effected ALL men.

Adam was a Son of God by creation lk 3 38, so His Fall effected His seed in Him, the elect Sons of God..

How does a personal action affect a person's DNA, that it would be passed onto an offspring???

Also....

Shad, . . . what does that mean, . . "the most faithful ones"? Isn't it god who grants a measure of faith? So, why would a person be held accountable, if they have no choice in the matter? It's not up to them, . . . and they get punished for it?

Still wondering....

 

[savedbygrace57]

orion asked:

How does a personal action affect a person's DNA

God created all men in Adam..acts 17:

26 And hath made of one blood[Adam] all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

God held Adam a full grown Man with all His mental falculties at their peak as responsible for all His yet to be born offspring in Him..So when He sinned, they sinned, because He was created with them in Him..Thats why paul wrote rom 5:

12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned

All Adams offspring sinned in Adam before they were born into the world..if you dont believe this, then take it up with God..

 

[Orion]

That's not affecting DNA. That's opinion. Contrary to Paul, . . . "blood" doesn't have anything to do with the electrical impulses in the brain, which causes personality and actions.

It is unethical to punish the offspring for the "sins" of the parent. Regardless, I was raised in Christianity and know all about the verses you brought up. "By one man, 'sin' entered the world, and by one man, 'sin' is taken away". Look further in Romans 5:

18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. (NIV)

Note the underlined....

As for "taking it up with god", I would be more than happy to have such a conversation with him, should he meet me to do so.

If you would, would you be kind enough to answer the part that I asked to shad? I would appreciate it. Thanks!

 

[savedbygrace57]

orion says:

That's not affecting DNA.

So you disagree that all men were created in Adam ? acts 17:

26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

And that when He [ Adam] sinned, all men in Him sinned per rom 5:

12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

[francisdesales]

Adam was a Son of God by creation lk 3 38, so His Fall effected His seed in Him, the elect Sons of God..

As Adam effected ALL men, so Jesus work effected ALL men...

Romans 5 repeats it five times in five different ways.

God desires ALL men to be saved, which is why Jesus' action SURPASSES Adam's action.

If you believe otherwise, apparently, you think that Adam's act was more universal and encompassing, more powerful. Adam's act still leaves men in sin. Are you saying that the Christ was not powerful enough to free alll of mankind, as Romans 5 states???

God desires ALL men to be saved, each and every one of them. This is why the seed (the Word) falls upon ALL men, not just the elect.

 

[savedbygrace57]

fran says:

As Adam effected ALL men, so Jesus work effected ALL men...

All elect men, the Sons of God..Adam and Jesus christ were Sons of God

lk 3:

38Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Jn 1:34

And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

 

[Orion]

orion says:

That's not affecting DNA.

So you disagree that all men were created in Adam ? acts 17:

26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

And that when He [ Adam] sinned, all men in Him sinned per rom 5:

12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

I most certainly do disagree with Acts 17 [and as I said, it is completely unethical to hold a child responsible for the actions of a parent]. . . . now how about the rest of my post that seems to go against your belief of "an elect"?

18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.

 

[savedbygrace57]

orion:

I most certainly do disagree with Acts 17

Then you disagree with God, as simple as that..

 

[Orion]

orion:

I most certainly do disagree with Acts 17

Then you disagree with God, as simple as that..

No, . . . . . I disagree with the person who wrote that in a religious text. I see no evidence that any specific god agrees with that line of "reasoning".

Now how about the verse I included? Verse 18?

 

[glorydaz]

I most certainly do disagree with Acts 17 [and as I said, it is completely unethical to hold a child responsible for the actions of a parent]. . . . now how about the rest of my post that seems to go against your belief of "an elect"?

18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.

The "one blood" spoken of in Acts has nothing to do with sin being passed down through the blood. That's just silly. Children are innocent until they are old enough to be held accountable for their own sin. You're correct when you assert a child is not responsible for the actions of his parents...nor are parents held guilty of their children's sins. We each are accountable to God for what we do....this original sin nonsense being spoken of is just that....nonsense.

 

[francisdesales]

All elect men, the Sons of God..Adam and Jesus christ were Sons of God

What does that have to do with Adam's sin??? It effects ALL men, doesn't it? Are there men out there not effected by sin, and do not die???

Does Adam's sin effect all men or not?

 

[savedbygrace57]

What does that have to do with Adam's sin???

What you mean ?

fran:

Does Adam's sin effect all men or not?

Not..only the elect..

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory:

Children are innocent until they are old enough to be held accountable for their own sin.

Vain philsophy..

 

[Orion]

savedbygrace, . . . how about verse 18?