If God Loved everyone !

[savedbygrace57]

The elect sinned in Adam, but the Non elect did not sin in adam..

Oh, OK - yeah got that. Who was it they did sin in then? C'mon - scripture and verse . . . you know how it goes.

Jn 8:44

 

[savedbygrace57]

savedbygrace, . . . . . . verse 18???

What about it ?

 

[mutzrein]

Good point. So what you are saying is God creates garbage.

No I'm not saying that at all. I am saying that God loves His children. BUT we are not all God's children.

Scripture tells us that that God is the God of the living. The living are his children - he loves them, but not so the dead because they have another father.

 

[mutzrein]

The elect sinned in Adam, but the Non elect did not sin in adam..

Oh, OK - yeah got that. Who was it they did sin in then? C'mon - scripture and verse . . . you know how it goes.

Jn 8:44

I don't understand - please explain.

 

[glorydaz]

Good point. So what you are saying is God creates garbage.

No I'm not saying that at all. I am saying that God loves His children. BUT we are not all God's children.

Scripture tells us that that God is the God of the living. The living are his children - he loves them, but not so the dead because they have another father.

God loves all men. He isn't willing that any should perish...

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked...God is love...His character is love, but He is a righteous God at the same time. He sent His Son to die for the sins of the whole world...that whosoever will may have eternal life.

Ezekiel 18:23 - Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

Ezekiel 18:32 - For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Ezekiel 33:11 - Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory:

God loves all men. He isn't willing that any should perish...

He Loves all the elect men and women and is not willing that they shall perish..

 

[savedbygrace57]

mut says:

I don't understand - please explain.

I am not allowed on this forum to go into explanation..if you like contact me personally and I will be glad to explain perhaps pm me..

 

[Orion]

savedbygrace, . . . . . . verse 18???

What about it ?

18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.

How are you getting around the "for all men"?


And as for John 8:44, . . . "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. "

That brings up the question of why your god would make a being who was a murderer on purpose. So, either see that verse as an error, or see your god as the first cause and creator of evil.

 

[savedbygrace57]

orion:

18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.

The all men that were in Adam, the elect Sons of God..only the elect stood and fell in Adam..

 

[savedbygrace57]

orion:

That brings up the question of why your god would make a being who was a murderer on purpose

He purposed to make vessels of wrath rom 9:

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

He made them to give the election of grace [ vessels of mercy] an example of what He could have very well did to them if not for His electing grace for them..

 

[Orion]

orion:

18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.

The all men that were in Adam, the elect Sons of God..only the elect stood and fell in Adam..

So the only ones condemned. . . the "all men", . . .are those who were going to be saved anyway? Does that even make sense to you? It doesn't to me. It is, in fact, ridiculous IF the only ones spoken in that verse ARE "the elect". It is redundant and silly. It makes absolutely no sense to "condemn" those who ultimately were never condemned to begin with [ultimately]. Besides, . . . it doesn't say "condemnation for THE ELECT", does it. You are reading into a text as your doctrine sees fit.

 

[glorydaz]

orion:

18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.

The all men that were in Adam, the elect Sons of God..only the elect stood and fell in Adam..

So the only ones condemned. . . the "all men", . . .are those who were going to be saved anyway? Does that even make sense to you? It doesn't to me. It is, in fact, ridiculous IF the only ones spoken in that verse ARE "the elect". It is redundant and silly. It makes absolutely no sense to "condemn" those who ultimately were never condemned to begin with [ultimately]. Besides, . . . it doesn't say "condemnation for THE ELECT", does it. You are reading into a text as your doctrine sees fit.

Of course it doesn't make sense. You're trying to get answers from someone who has no idea what the Bible says about God's love. When people start with a faulty premise, they end up preaching nonsense.

 

[savedbygrace57]

orion:

So the only ones condemned. . . the "all men", . . .are those who were going to be saved anyway?

Yes, the condemnantion that those in adam incurred, was laid upon Jesus christ, He became a curse for them, their sin and sins were laid to Jesus christ charge..

 

[mondar]

He purposed to make vessels of wrath rom 9:

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

He made them to give the election of grace [ vessels of mercy] an example of what He could have very well did to them if not for His electing grace for them..

Then the god you serve is an evil being, plain and simple. Torturing the majority so that a slim minority will feel good about their place in Heaven is abhorantly evil.

Orion, why is it evil if the potter makes a vessel fit to be destroyed?

 

[glorydaz]

He purposed to make vessels of wrath rom 9:

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

He made them to give the election of grace [ vessels of mercy] an example of what He could have very well did to them if not for His electing grace for them..

Then the god you serve is an evil being, plain and simple. Torturing the majority so that a slim minority will feel good about their place in Heaven is abhorantly evil.

Orion, why is it evil if the potter makes a vessel fit to be destroyed?

God says I prepare vessels for glory, but vessels are prepared for destruction. God doesn’t take the responsibility for preparing vessels for destruction. He says there are vessels that have been prepared for destruction. The Bible clearly teaches the responsibility for such preparation lies in the heart of the man who goes to hell. Jesus said, "And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." (Jn 5:40) In Revelation 22, He says, "And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." And so God says, I fit for glory, but vessels are fitted for destruction.

 

[francisdesales]

Sure, all the men that were in Adam, the elect Sons of God..

You haven't answered my question, all you are doing is ignoring the obvious.

God died for ALL men, elect and unelect alike, JUST as Adam's sin effected all men, the elect and the unelect alike...

There is no arguing around this, so I can understand your strategy of not engaging in a discussion here...

 

[savedbygrace57]

fran:

God died for ALL men, elect and unelect alike, JUST as Adam's sin effected all men, the elect and the unelect alike...

Sorry, Christ died only for His elect..

 

[francisdesales]

Sorry, Christ died only for His elect..

Sorry, Christ died for everyone.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Sorry, Christ died only for His elect..

Sorry, Christ died for everyone.

In your imagination..

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory:

.

God doesn’t take the responsibility for preparing vessels for destruction.

Yes He does, for He fits them for destruction rom 9:22

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Fitted is in the passive voice, they are being fitted by God for their destruction..