If God says do not kill why does He kill?

[Padre Pio]

What method would you have God use to stop a rape ?

An all powerful God can stop a rape in infinite ways... He can send his angels to help the person immediately... He can also kill the offender on the spot by multiple ways, etc.

 

[Consecrated Life]

An all powerful God can stop a rape in infinite ways... He can send his angels to help the person immediately... He can also kill the offender on the spot by multiple ways, etc.

If God killed all rapists and all violent criminals &

 

[Consecrated Life]

If God killed all rapists and all violent criminals & criminals on earth in one shot, causing hundreds of millions of them to drop dead in one second so that there would be no doubt that an all powerful God caused it to happen, do you think that rape and violent crime would continue anew on the earth?
Did you know that Jesus describes this very thing happening in the bible ?

 

[jasonc]

[QUOTE="Padre Pio, post: 1821714, member: reign .

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi, tks Free for taking time to read it. I was not sure and wanted to share it with my daughter. I'm not sure of what reformed is either. But seemed He used Catholic voices to either critique or agree with.
And so I did not want to add confusion.

Good pt. That natural death is punishment for everyone...where can I find that in scripture?

See Romans 5
The entire chapter.

 

[jasonc]

An all powerful God can stop a rape in infinite ways... He can send his angels to help the person immediately... He can also kill the offender on the spot by multiple ways, etc.

That would include no need for govt .why stop with that? Theft? Lying ? All sin would and your choice to sin is negated .

Love that beer ? But I get drunk at my house ?

Love that adultery ,and for fornication?

My sister was raped and I myself is a victim of sex assault.
Many murders and rape are committed by those who have abused alcohol

 

[WIP]

An all powerful God can stop a rape in infinite ways... He can send his angels to help the person immediately... He can also kill the offender on the spot by multiple ways, etc.

Something that you don't realize is that if God put to death all who sin there would be none left. He almost did that once and had it not been for Noah and his family, we would not exist today. You see, you are tying to put yourself into the place of God. God has already decided that all sin deserve death and that all of us are guilty.

1 Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened,
That it cannot save;
Nor His ear heavy,
That it cannot hear.
2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God;
And your sins have hidden His face from you,
So that He will not hear.
3 For your hands are defiled with blood,
And your fingers with iniquity;
Your lips have spoken lies,
Your tongue has muttered perversity.
4 No one calls for justice,
Nor does any plead for truth.
They trust in empty words and speak lies;
They conceive evil and bring forth iniquity.
5 They hatch vipers’ eggs and weave the spider’s web;
He who eats of their eggs dies,
And from that which is crushed a viper breaks out.
6 Their webs will not become garments,
Nor will they cover themselves with their works;
Their works are works of iniquity,
And the act of violence is in their hands.
7 Their feet run to evil,
And they make haste to shed innocent blood;
Their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity;
Wasting and destruction are in their paths.
8 The way of peace they have not known,
And there is no justice in their ways;
They have made themselves crooked paths;
Whoever takes that way shall not know peace.
Isaiah 59:1-8 NKJV

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Romans 3:23 NKJV

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23 NKJV

You sound extremely angry with God and I'm sure you have your reasons. I've been angry with Him too at times but no more. The thing is, we live in a fallen world and evil abounds. We are all guilty and we all deserve death. Perhaps it is a way of testing us and our faith but it is only by His grace that we still live and it is through faith in Jesus Christ that we have hope. God, our Creator, loves us dearly so much so that, "While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8 NKJV)

Your anger is misplaced. You are blaming God for our sinful behaviors. Lay your anger and hatred at the foot of His cross and turn to Him and let Him relieve you. Here's what Jesus said...

28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
Matthew 11:28 NKJV

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Because God's morality is set on souls, not bodies.

God literallly kills each and every single human in one way or another, as curse brought by Adam and Eve. It is a Law enforced action. What God cares is where humans' soul will go after they died. Saving every single soul possible remains His job on earth. He won't allow a single sheep left behind. That's where His morality being set.

God kills with the full awareness of where the souls will go, in order for Israel to be built as a vessel to convey God's truth to today's human kind such that not a single sheep in today's world would be left behind. That sets His morality. For the same reason, God killed the already dead Canaanites who were under the influence of Satan and determined to stand in God's way of salvation towards human kind via the establishment of Israel.

God doesn't "kill", he takes no pleasure in anybody's death, even Hitler's, but he rejoices over the repentance of sinners. Death is the natural consequence of sin, it's the second law of thermodynaics, don't ever blame God for that.

 

[gordon777]

Hi guys, I noticed what was missing in your thread.

No mention of the way God does things and the way it is different for us, through Jesus Christ, is mentioned by any of those who posted.

God kills and makes alive, but in Jesus Christ, which we are to become if anyone did believe in that here, we are as told below.

When all THINGS ARE DELIVERED, passed into the hands of the Son, that is the end of killing, the law of killing ended, see Jesus ending it also below. ( He is the end of the law to all who believe)



John 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 ALL THINGS ARE DELIVERED UNTO ME OF MY FATHER: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; FOR I AM MEEK AND LOWLY IN HEART: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is HOLY, HARMLESS, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

 

[gordon777]

While I am here, I will mention again why knowledge is not belief, ( which many can show on the thread)in fact it is against what faith is, see below. ( charity edifies and is not puffed up in knowledge.)



1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

 

[Randy]

Hi, my daughter brought this question to me.
And when I came to my answer it was because God is Judge as He is also Merciful.

But for some reason that was not enough to free her mind.

So as I was searching the internet I came across what seemed to be a Catholic thought on the subject. However I am no Catholic. That was the only article I've read at this point.

I would love for someone who is not Catholic to critique the article for me. And be so kind to express from scripture how you would answer the titled question.

Why Must God’s Justice Be Satisfied? | Tabletalk

Because of God’s simplicity—He cannot be divided up into various parts with various passions—He is a God of both infinite mercy and infinite justice.

tabletalkmagazine.com

God did command the death penalty in regard to those found guilty of murder on the testimony of two or more witnesses by the governing authorities. So a justice context is shown. God is the ultimate governing authority. In fact the justice system came from above.

Focus your daughter in "why does God save?"

With light comes accountability to all peoples of all nations.

“Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.

 

[for_his_glory]

While I am here, I will mention again why knowledge is not belief, ( which many can show on the thread)in fact it is against what faith is, see below. ( charity edifies and is not puffed up in knowledge.)



1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

There is carnal knowledge and then there is Spiritual knowledge.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

 

[Tenchi]

What He gives life to He has the same right to take life from. Humanity does not have the right to take life that belongs to Him.

This. Exactly!

 

[for_his_glory]

Genesis 9:6 God established capital punishement even before giving the law of "Thou shall not kill" to Moses. The punishment in Genesis 9:6 speaks to the severity of the crime. The taking of a life warrants a punishment as in a death for a death. It's not given for vengeance, but for justice and the role of justice is carried out by one specific office, Romans 13:1-6.

Just Wars

In the OT we read that at times God commands battles between nations. These wars were God's hand of justice against the wicked. There is a difference between the act of murder and a death in battle. In the NT the Church is not a nation that goes to war anymore as the kingdom of God is not of this world, John 18:36. We no longer fight for territory or possessions, but the wicked of even today will be punished according to the law God established in Genesis 9:6.

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. 40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. 41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Good pt. That natural death is punishment for everyone...where can I find that in scripture?

Well, not everyone, Christ being the exception. You also have Enoch and Elijah as exceptions. That being said, EVERYONE (like "all") can mean without exception or without distinction which is to say it is ambiguous.
(aside: If you're a R.C. then Mary would be another exception as she died and was sinless according to RC tradition/magisterium which rules their theology)

If God says do not kill why does He kill?​

God is sovereign. The rules He gives man do not apply to Him. Man's POV (point of view) does not necessarily apply to God (Isaiah 55:8-9). Now, God made the rule the the penalty for sin is physical death for man and as God defines what justice is this would explain from a human viewpoint why God kills just about everyone ... but there is no WHY to what God does for He is eternal and the First Cause of all things, Himself being uncaused and therefore not subject to any cause; He is never an effect of an external cause.
For God's will is so much the highest rule of righteousness that whatever he wills, by the very fact that he wills it, must be considered righteous. When, therefore, one asks why God has so done, we must reply: because he has willed it. But if you proceed further to ask why he so willed, you are seeking something greater and higher than God's will, which cannot be found. Let men's rashness, then, restrain itself, and not seek what does not exist. Author not given

my daughter brought this question to me.

Job asked God WHY once. Perhaps you should convey God's answer to Job to your daughter.
Job 38:1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said, 2 “Who is this that darkens counsel [questioning my authority and wisdom] By words without knowledge? 3 “Now [a]gird up your loins like a man, And I will ask you, and you instruct Me! .... Job 38:4 thru Job 39
Job 40:8 “Will you really annul My judgment and set it aside as void? Will you condemn Me [your God] that you may [appear to] be righteous and justified?

Job says “Behold, I am of little importance and contemptible; what can I reply to You?
I lay my hand on my mouth.
...
"Therefore [I now see] I have [rashly] uttered that which I did not understand,
Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.

... God also killed the Lamb of God (John 10:18) ... His ways are not our ways.

Aside: Might be a somewhat complex answer for a young daughter *giggle*

 

[gordon777]

There is carnal knowledge and then there is Spiritual knowledge.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

All knowledge puffs up, that is WHY it is told we can UNDERSTAND ALL MYSTERIES OF GOD, and lack CHARITY, and it PROFITS US NOTHING.


1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And THOUGH I have the gift of prophecy, and UNDERSTAND ALL MYSTERIES, and ALL KNOWLEDGE; and THOUGH I HAVE ALL FAITH, so that I could remove mountains, AND HAVE NOT CHARITY, I AM NOTHING.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,



Charity is not puffed up, but knowledge in people is, when they lack charity, as ONLY CHARITY EDIFIES.



1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

 

[gordon777]

Just Wars

In the OT we read that at times God commands battles between nations. These wars were God's hand of justice against the wicked. There is a difference between the act of murder and a death in battle. In the NT the Church is not a nation that goes to war anymore as the kingdom of God is not of this world, John 18:36. We no longer fight for territory or possessions, but the wicked of even today will be punished according to the law God established in Genesis 9:6.

The churches have gone to war ever since Apostle Paul departed from this earth.


But as for wars, it is believers that are called to do a good warfare, of faith, to overcome evil with good, because that id the weakness of darkness, that light excels it.



Romans 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

 

[gordon777]

This. Exactly!

Not all exactly.

God has revealed to us the way of peace, looking at Isaiah 59, the world is summed up as thoughts of iniquity, ( ungodliness) no judgement in their goings, crooked paths made, and who goes on them knows no peace, that is why judgement is far from them, no justice overtaking them, looking for light, but finding darkness. ( the way of peace they KNOW NOT.)

Romans 3, concludes all the world guilty before God, as all are gone out of the way was told, none good not one, their tongues used for deceit, mouths full of cursing, ( they bless with their mouth and curse inwardly.) destruction and misery in their ways, the way of peace they have NOT KNOWN.

Remembering Isaiah 59, they looked for light but behold obscurity, for brightness, but they walk in darkness, Luke 1 tells of Christ being born, To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Now, that may seem like a completely out of context load for you, but the context is that while God winked at the world in ignorance, after repentance was commanded to ALL MEN, why would it continue for God to take lives away, when the Son of man had to correct HIs disciples, that He came to save mens lives, NOT TO DESTROY THEM.


Isaiah 59:7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and DESTRUCTION ARE IN THEIR PATHS.
8 The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.
9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.

Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 DESTRUCTION and misery ARE IN THEIR WAYS:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Luke 1:79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, LORD WILT THOU THAT WE COMMAND FIRE TO COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, AND CONSUME THEM, EVEN AS ELIAS DID ?
55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
56 For THE SON OF MAN IS NOT COME TO DESTROY MENS LIVES, BUT TO SAVE THEM. And they went to another village.

 

[gordon777]

... God also killed the Lamb of God (John 10:18) ... His ways are not our ways.

Aside: Might be a somewhat complex answer for a young daughter *giggle*

That is limited knowledge you are saying.


Jesus rebuked Peter for not understanding that the will of God is life, which was only through the death of the Son of God, because He is life.

All men are then commanded to repent, to savour the things of God and not the things of man any more.

Jesus did not say as you say that Gods ways are different to ours at all, read below to see that corrected, not only Peter had to accept and believe in what Jesus said to lay HIs life down and be killed by the elders, chief priests and scribes, and that He would be raised again the third day, but Jesus turned then to the disciples and told them all, if any of them come after Him, ( in death and rising again) they deny themselves they take up their cross to follow Him, ( in the death of the cross and the rising again) to not save their life to lose it again( as Peter had suggested) but to lose their life for the sake of Christ to find it again. ( Jesus was doing these things to lose HIs life to find it again for all to find theirs)



Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not all exactly.

God has revealed to us the way of peace, looking at Isaiah 59, the world is summed up as thoughts of iniquity, ( ungodliness) no judgement in their goings, crooked paths made, and who goes on them knows no peace, that is why judgement is far from them, no justice overtaking them, looking for light, but finding darkness. ( the way of peace they KNOW NOT.)

Romans 3, concludes all the world guilty before God, as all are gone out of the way was told, none good not one, their tongues used for deceit, mouths full of cursing, ( they bless with their mouth and curse inwardly.) destruction and misery in their ways, the way of peace they have NOT KNOWN.

Remembering Isaiah 59, they looked for light but behold obscurity, for brightness, but they walk in darkness, Luke 1 tells of Christ being born, To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Now, that may seem like a completely out of context load for you, but the context is that while God winked at the world in ignorance, after repentance was commanded to ALL MEN, why would it continue for God to take lives away, when the Son of man had to correct HIs disciples, that He came to save mens lives, NOT TO DESTROY THEM.


Isaiah 59:7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and DESTRUCTION ARE IN THEIR PATHS.
8 The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.
9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.

Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 DESTRUCTION and misery ARE IN THEIR WAYS:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Luke 1:79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, LORD WILT THOU THAT WE COMMAND FIRE TO COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, AND CONSUME THEM, EVEN AS ELIAS DID ?
55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
56 For THE SON OF MAN IS NOT COME TO DESTROY MENS LIVES, BUT TO SAVE THEM. And they went to another village.

I have heard this before.....
When did God wink at the world??