GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
I believe that if we have charity AND knowledge we will be able to protect ourselves against the world.
I know catholics that, having no knowledge, have allowed themselves to be carried away by the JWs.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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If God says do not kill why does He kill?
- Thread starter Corinth77777
- Start date
I know catholics that, having no knowledge, have allowed themselves to be carried away by the JWs.
Spiritual knowledge does not puff up anyone, but carnal knowledge always says I am right and you are wrong as we can see with the question of the OP. Charity has nothing to do with this.
So, are you saying God was wrong in sending men into battle to destroy the wicked?
Tenchi
Member
??? As usual, you're off in the tulips, pontificating about...whatever. God can take life because He is both the Giver and Sustainer of all life. And because He is unique in His life-giving role, when He takes life, God does not murder as a human might be guilty of doing. This was what I was agreeing with in my brief "Hear, hear!" of the remarks of Hidden In Him. What you've written above, as far as I can tell, has nothing to do with God's unique divine prerogative to take the life He's given. Do you ever actually consider what other people have written?
Death entered the world through the sin of Adam and Eve. And mankind has been appointed to die once. To die twice as in the 2nd death is a choice made. But it is the result of continuing to sin after coming to the knowledge of the truth.
Justice is noted as a Sceptor of Gods throne. He does punish the unrighteous. God knows the weakness of the flesh of man and love is the center of His being. How does He balance both justice and His love for all. Through Jesus Christ our Lord. The punishment that brough us peace was put upon Him and by His stripes we are healed. Isaiah 53 Those that refuse such a wonderful salvation are weighed down with the guilt of their sin and God's justice will prevail. The 2nd death.
brother Paul
Member
Hi, my daughter brought this question to me.
And when I came to my answer it was because God is Judge as He is also Merciful.
But for some reason that was not enough to free her mind.
So as I was searching the internet I came across what seemed to be a Catholic thought on the subject. However I am no Catholic. That was the only article I've read at this point.
I would love for someone who is not Catholic to critique the article for me. And be so kind to express from scripture how you would answer the titled question.
Why Must God’s Justice Be Satisfied? | Tabletalk
Because of God’s simplicity—He cannot be divided up into various parts with various passions—He is a God of both infinite mercy and infinite justice.tabletalkmagazine.com
Now then, according to the Scriptures a murderer is almost always a person who sits and premeditates the killing of another human being for some ultimate selfish reason such as hatred, jealousy, political power, revenge, profit, control, etc.! Originally mankind was made in God’s image, so when we take a life and shed another’s blood, we offend God. We are also killing all that persons potential future offspring. Mankind was also meant to be a progenitor of others and so when we murder, we eliminate the life of all those who were meant to have a life because of us who are not yet born. Did you know in Genesis the Lord tells Cain, your brother’s bloods call out from the ground and not your brothers blood? Yes in Hebrew the word is a plural.
So why did our Lord do all this for us? Because of the potential danger that lurks within each of us when we act out as our own lord (Genesis3:5) which is the true fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, by which we decide to disregard God’s word and decide good and evil for ourselves. Sad as it seems to admit it, the source of these heinous and dangerous motivations is a genuine potential that lies within each of us (Matthew 15:19)! Who can deny it? Only the self-deluded!
Now to demonstrate a sense of justifiable killing that is not murder, that is not necessarily morally wrong, such as the basis for the so-called “Just War” concept, or God’s command for certain people to go wipe out a family line, or an entire city, or even when considering the right to protect one’s children from victimization at the hands of some maniac, I will use an analogy that arises from within the survival instinct of our own bodies. The principle I am about to reveal is basic to all living creatures and though analogous is well grounded in established biological truth.
Imagine in the human body, each cell as an individual life form, which actually it is. They each likewise function as part of a specific local community (the heart, the lungs, the blood stream, etc.,).Different cells, and groups of cells, display differences in structure, appearance, life-span, function, etc., just like different humans and groups of humans! Each cell in relation to the other cells, and as a member of their particular cellular community, knowingly or unknowingly works as an intricate part of a whole which is greater than the sum of its parts. The human host, of which it is but a tiny almost insignificant part, is as the Lord is to us, in relation to the members of His body. The individual cell’s instinctual purpose, like our own, is to work to maintain and protect its self life, as well as the goals of its community life.
One of the ways they assure the survival of their type is through self-replication or offspring. Their higher purpose is actually to achieve our will and our good purpose though they are most probably totally unaware, or only vaguely, that we, as their human host, even exists. They understand little if anything about us, and our ways are higher than their ways, our thoughts are higher than their thoughts, if indeed it can be said that they even have any. They go about more or less doing the right thing in relation to one another unaware of the part they are playing in working within our overall purpose and will. Beyond their circumstantial perceptions they are working and interacting to optimize our quality of life and helping to fulfill our long term plans.
Now then, each individual cell is created in our image. They contain the image of their host within each of them (called DNA). They probably can sense an order and function interactively to enhance their mutually dependable existence. The span of their existence may be miniscule in relation to their human host, but to them it is a life time.
Sad as this truth is, every once in a while, a cell or some group of cells, decides they are going to do their own thing. They’re going to be their own lord if you will. They seemingly become self-willed and rebellious toward the established order. They begin to gain new converts so to speak, in great numbers, and nothing is going to stop them from their plan to take over. We call this actual biological phenomena is what we call “Cancer”! These terrorist or barbarous cells literally go into attack mode and start sapping the life out of the surrounding cells, killing as many as necessary in pursuit of their self-willed agenda. At first the effect of their violence upon their community of cells is slight and almost unnoticeable, causing some alarm, discomfort, and intermittent disturbance here and there. Regulatory norms are enforced by the greater community, and often these violent murderous outbreaks are remedied without bringing much attention or alarm to the neighboring cellular communities. However, on occasion these cells reject these corrective measures and rebel even further extending there influence outward, and begin to influence their surroundings in such a way that the immune system is alerted, and the local community has to call in specialists to eliminate these criminal cells in an attempt to protect the near by individuals, and the society at large. These are usually in the form of “anti-bodies” and white blood cells, that specialize in response to the types of violent rebellion these particular cellular individuals impose. Why try to eliminate them? Because of the inevitable threat they cause to individuals and to the greater society. The literally bring a sort of chaos into the order of things destroying the work being done there. If left on their own without being stopped they will continue to maliciously destroy and entirely take over. The forces alerted to remedy the problem will stop at nothing to prevent more senseless murder and mayhem and if necessary will even kill them. They even try surrounding them and trapping them as a first attempt by encapsulating them in a membrane or prison ifyou will.
If they get too powerful, or for some non-sensible reason are released, or break out of their captivity, or get away with their self-lordship too long, the cell’s lord, the human host, begins to take notice and likewise goes on alert. It likewise then takes any steps necessary to overcome or even kill the Cancer before it gets too powerful. It will irradiate, cut out, laser roast, or even chop off a limb in order to preserve the greater good and sometimes the life of the whole. Often times a number of good healthy citizen cells are called on to make the sacrifice of self for the greater good. Sometimes just the act of chasing down these devils and getting at them causes the sacrifice of good, innocent, healthy, cellular individuals. As tragic as this may seem it is the necessary price that must be paid to protect and save the most lives in the community.
If you want to know what a murderer is exactly as defined by God in HIs word, it is those who reside in death, are death for all others. ( Jesus Christ defeated death and the murderer Satan. Revelation 1:18)
Jesus Christ by rising from the dead, causes all who trust and believe in Him to pass from death ( being death to all aroi8nd them also) to life, ( to be life to those who hear you) and when you love your brothers you abide in life, when you do not love your brother ( when you do not believe in the life of Jesus Christ) you are a murderer, BECAUSE NO ETERNAL LIFE IS ABIDING IN MURDERERS.
Revelation lists no murderers in the new earth, because the unbelieving ARE THEM.
Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
More description is given about death, through what Cain did, killing his brother Abel. ( I just posted about this, how we are called by Christ to love our brother, not hate them as murderers, or we show we are the unbelieving)
Cain was of the wicked one, and shows envy, pride, hatred, not the love of Jesus Christ, and all who have no love of Christ deny what He did, how and why.
Genesis 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Yes a good response from you, as usual showing you believe in love, kindness, in acknowledgment of the truth.
God gave life through Jesus Christ, it is told now in this thread, and all murderers not only lack love, they also cannot show life in their words, nor hide they are in fact the unbelieving murderers.
All are wicked, that is why Jesus corrected the same men you talk about being sent into battle, from killing a oman, because they felt no problem with killing. ( the wicked kill, those who believe in Jesus Christ, know He came to save mens lives and to give them a conscience.
Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
John 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
Luke 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Like I told you guys ( which you dispute against) charity edifies, only charity gives the good conscience. ( from an evil conscience)
1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Remember, ( or ignore all you on the thread) that all are wicked, both Jew and Gentile guilty before God, and the justification is what all should hear in these scriptures shown, to see who the murderers are, and to not be a murderer, but to believe in the life Jesus Christ has given.
Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Many can have charity, but yet deny the existence of God.
None of those scriptures you posted have anything to do with God's judgement of the wicked during battles God has sent His faithful out to slay the wicked. You leave out the full context of scripture by only using a verse to try and make it to what you want it to say. Full context is very important for our understanding.
Tenchi
Member
Thanks. God's at work!
Uh huh. What's this got to do with the point Hidden In Him made about God's unique divine prerogative to be the Taker of Life, as well as the Giver of it? It was my agreement with this point that you chose to remark on, but in a way that appeared to me to have nothing at all to do with my agreement, or the point Hidden In Him had made. Why do you do this? Why do you go off at right angles to what a person has written, talking about something else entirely? It seems like you're either not reading what folks are actually writing, or you're trying to hijack the thread. Maybe you aren't intending to do either of these things, but it doesn't look as though this is so from what you write.
What are you talking about as none of this makes any sense. The OP is about God saying not to kill, but yet He has allowed many to be killed. Please stay on topic.
Yes what has your words got to do with God telling us to not show our ways in word and tongue, but in deed and in truth. Charity edifies, when do you take time to edify yourself.
1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
Charity is the bond of perfectness to be put on, or it is not put on perfectly.
Colossians 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
I am on topic, it is how the forums are the place not to show restraint, but to show death by text/the tongue. ( or would not avoid what I am trying to show, but would embrace it instead)
Murderers do not control their tongue, here is scripture, AGAIN..
Proverbs 18:21 DEATH and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.
James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But THE TONGUE can no man tame; it is an unruly EVIL, full of DEADLY POISON.
Do the Jews have the spiritual mark of Cain for killing their brother Jesus?
little children (adult Christians) that make him a spiritual father!