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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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If I ask someone for a gift, did I earn it, or work for it when I got it handed to me?
- Thread starter llama
- Start date
Please use scripture, to support your views.
Inherit the kingdom is explained by Jesus Christ in His statement.
Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34
Those that inherit the kingdom are welcome into God's Kingdom on the Day of Judgment.
Those that inherit the Kingdom, "obtain" or "receive" or "possess" or "have access" to the Kingdom of God.
JLB
(Post removed. Failure to follow requests to abide by forum guidelines, particularly "Subsequent responses either opposing or adding additional information should include references to specific supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation of the member's understanding of how that scripture applies." Obadiah)
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Some folks believe them selves to be above the rules they agree too...
Jas_5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
No Scripture.
Please provide scripture when you post.
God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8
OSAS is no where to be found in the bible.
JLB
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I have repeatedly.
Eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23). Justification is a gift of God (Rom 3:24, 5:15,16,17). God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29).
All believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit WHEN they believe (Eph 1:13). They are sealed FOR the day of redemption, which is a promise and guarantee (Eph 1:14).
The point of Paul is NO ONE can continue in doing good, and thereby receive eternal life. If anyone could, they wouldn't need the saving work of Jesus on the cross, dying for their sins.
He proved that no one can continue in doing good in Rom 3:9 and 3:23. All are under sin, and all have sinned. Therefore, NO ONE can continue in doing good.
I've repeatedly given the verses that teach eternal security: Rom 3:24, 5:15,16,17, 6:23 and 11:29 and Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5.
And you've not even come close to proving that all these verses DON'T teach eternal security.
If they don't teach eternal security, it should be easy to take each verse and explain WHY they don't.
Be my guest.
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:7-8
- Paul by the Holy Spirit teaches us that eternal life is granted to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
- Paul by the Holy Spirit teaches us that those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
This is the same thing that is said in Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The gift is eternal life in Christ Jesus. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away... John 15:2
Those who disregard the gift, and continue to present their bodies as slaves of sin, will be rewarded with indignation and wrath,
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16
Over and over we are warned not to walk in disobedience, to walk after the flesh, to practice the works of the flesh.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21
JLB
Not so fast! Paul was pointing out further on in Romans that no one is "good". For "all are under sin" in Rom 3:9 and for "all have sinned" in Rom 3:23.
Regarding "continuance in doing good" for eternal life, what did Jesus say about being "good"? Mark 10:18 - And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
Now, Jesus wasn't saying that He wasn't good or that He wasn't God. He was making the point that no one is good.
Which supports my explanation of Rom 2:7-8. Basically, ONLY IF one DID continue in doing good, which is NOT POSSIBLE, would one receive eternal life.
If there were any who actually did fulfill Rom 2:7-8, then they wouldn't need the sacrifice of Christ.
Pease explain if you think there are any who can fulfill Rom 2:7-8 and therefore don't need Christ's sacrifice.
Absolutely NOT. God's gift of eternal life is given to those who are "in Christ". And Paul described how one is "in Christ" in Eph 1:13, "having believed".
You've still NOT demonstrated, much less proven, that being "taken away" means removed from Christ.
Further, John 15:2 was said during the OT, not NT. Everything changed with the giving of the Holy Spirit to every believer at Pentecost. So, when Jesus said those words in Jn 15, NO ONE was "in Christ". That is specifically a NT occurrence.
So, you're using verses totally out of context.
[Support your opinion with Scripture. WIP]
[Support your opinion with Scripture. WIP]
i've already explained this. Eph 5:5 is a parallel verse and what will be lost is our inheritance IN THE KINGDOM.
That's where our inheritance is.
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Yes all have [in the past] sinned. The context is addressing the righteousness that we all [Both Jew and Gentile] have apart from the law of Moses. That we all, Jew and Gentile have sinned.
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Romans 3:21-26
[/B said:
Those who believe are given eternal life: Eternal life is relationship with God. Knowing God.
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3
What you have failed to show, is any scriptures that show a person still has eternal life, after being removed from Christ.
You will have to do this to prove OSAS is a true doctrine.
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; John 15:2
The person was once in Christ, but then later taken away from Christ.
How can this person still have eternal life, disconnected from Christ ?
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
Jesus explained what the phrase inherit the kingdom is, in His prophecy, stating plainly the words He will speak to those on His right hand, on that Day.
Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34
Those who inherit the kingdom are called blessed, and are welcomed into God's Kingdom.
Those who don't inherit the Kingdom, are called cursed.
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41
Those who don't inherit the Kingdom, are cursed, and are sent to the everlasting fires of hell along with the devil and his angels.
JLB
Scripture? WIP
Scripture? WIP
When one believes, they sure KNOW Him. What happens later is a family issue. Even if one does later cease to believe, that action is fully covered in Rom 8:39 in the words "nor in the future".
No, what you have failed to prove is that once sealed with the Holy Spirit, which occurs WHEN one believes in Christ, the believer is promised and guaranteed for the day of redemption. Eph 1:13,14,4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5
Scripture? WIP
Combative. Present your case. WIP
Except John 15:2 doesn't have the words "from Christ".
Scripture? WIP
Scripture? WIP
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Since Jesus Christ was speaking in the first person directly to His disciples, He says "I" and "Me".
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;
John 15:1-2
"I" in John 15:1-2 is a reference to Christ.
"Me" in John 15:1-2 is a reference to Jesus Christ.
JLB
God loves us dearly, as He sent His only begotten Son to be punished and to die in our place, so that we could be reconciled to Him, and be with Him forever.
God wants us to turn to Him, and turn away from Satan, and be translated out of the kingdom of darkness, into the kingdom of His dear Son, who is the King and Lord of all.
Colossians 1:13
However, to those disobedient and rebellious, Christians... those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:8
Yes, like Lucifer and the angels, who are sons of God, who were disobedient in the days of Noah, and were cast down to hell.
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:41
and again
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4
...eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7
This year would be a perfect opportunity for you to teach people what the scriptures say.
Let's encourage people to walk after the Spirit, and to set their minds on the things of the Spirit, so as not to end up being condemned, which means: Damned.
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1
Let's teach people to remain connected to Him, and set our minds on things above: For to be carnally minded is death, Romans 8:6
JLB
What the Bible teaches is that eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23), justification is a gift of God (Rom 3:24, 5:15,16,17) and God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29).
Keep in mind that Paul never used the word 'gift' between 6:23 and 11:29. That's how he connects the dots for us to understand what he meant in 11:29.
Those who have believed ARE sealed WHEN they believe (Eph 1:13). This sealing is a PROMISE, A GUARANTEE for the day of redemption (Eph 1:14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5).
These facts are undeniable. I've provided Scripture that prove what I have said.
There are no verses that say that one can lose salvation.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23
The gift [singular] of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus.
That's what Romans 6:23 says.
This does not say the gifts of God is eternal life.
The word of God says: For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23
The word of Freegrace says: eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23), justification is a gift of God (Rom 3:24, 5:15,16,17) and God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29).
The same word to Christians that says: the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Also says: For the wages of sin is death...
Again, here is what the complete verse scripture says: For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Then when that verse is read with the associated context of the previous verses...
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked thatthough you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:16-23
- We have been given a precious gift from God, in that we can know Him, as a son knows a father, and a wife knows a husband in relationship. If we choose to go back to the things that lead to death, and disregard the precious gift we have been given, it's up to us.
Paul is contrasting eternal life and eternal death, just exactly the same way as he did a few paragraphs back in Romans 2.
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:5-11
JLB
You have not provided any scriptures that teach eternal security, as there are none.
What you have presented is your man-made version of scripture by presenting "parts" of verses which have words added or removed, with the definitions changed, then you "tag" your man-made statement with scripture references, as if that is what the bible say's, and call it scripture.
This is likened to man taking parts of other humans and piecing together a "man" called Frankenstein, and saying he is human.
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22;18-19
Please explain with scripture, how a person can have their part taken away from the book of Life and from the holy city, and still have eternal life?
JLB
What the Bible teaches is that eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23), justification is a gift of God (Rom 3:24,5:15,16,17) and God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29).
Keep in mind that Paul never used the word 'gift' between 6:23 and 11:29. That's how he connects the dots for us to understand what he meant in 11:29.
Those who have believed ARE sealed WHEN they believe (Eph 1:13). This sealing is a PROMISE, A GUARANTEE for the day of redemption (Eph 1:14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5).
These facts are undeniable. I've provided Scripture that prove what I have said.
There are no verses that say that one can lose salvation.
Uh, God's gifts are irrevocable. And Paul specified what he meant by gifts of God: justification and eternal life. These are irrevocable. No amount of rejection changes anything, and certainly not the truth of Scripture.
Further, God's promise and guarantee for the day of redemption is the sealing with the Holy Spirit.
Do you believe that God doesn't keep his Word, or breaks His promises? Please answer.
This is just your opinion. I have quoted Scripture directly which refutes the notion of losing salvation. And no one has refuted these verses as teaching eternal security, as I've refuted all your verses that you claim teach loss of salvation.
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:2
- Were these people, as branches, in Christ at one time, then later removed from Him?
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
These people, as represented by branches, that were removed from Him and cast into the fire and burned, continue to exist forever in everlasting fire.
Is that what you mean? They exist eternally in this everlasting fire?
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41
JLB
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WHEN one believes, they are SEALED with the Holy Spirit, a GUARANTEE AND PROMISE for the day of redemption. Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5.
Apparently you don't think the phrase "day of redemption" refers to when we enter eternity in a saved state. So, what does the phrase mean to you in these verses I've just presented?
- Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; John 15:2
Again, you are not using scripture.
What you have presented is your man-made version of scripture by presenting "parts" of verses which have words added or removed, with the definitions changed, then you "tag" your man-made statement with scripture references, as if that is what the bible say's, and call it scripture.
Here is the scripture that addresses what you are doing with scripture, as well as those who have their part in the Book of Life taken away.
Key Phrase: God shall take away his part from the Book of Life.
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22;18-19
These were in the Book of Life, then later their part was removed.
You also refuse to address what Jesus said to us in the Gospels, and what the Apostles plainly said about this subject.
- Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; John 15:2
- if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, Rev 22:19
Please show from the scriptures, where a person who was removed from being in Christ, still has eternal life.
Please show from the scriptures, where a person who was removed from the book of Life, still has eternal Life.
JLB