If I ask someone for a gift, did I earn it, or work for it when I got it handed to me?

[JLB]

What is a believer?

A person who believes, and shows they believe by obeying the Gospel.



JLB

 

[JLB]

OSAS is simply put Heresy, and is a man made doctrine that had no biblical support.

It's been proven over and over.

Yes.

Proven over and over to be Heresy.


If a believer no longer believes, is he still a believer.

No, he still possesses eternal life. Therefore, he's still saved.

No, he's not a believer.

Please show the scripture that says un-believers have eternal life.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes, he said it but the Bible does teach it. Jesus said in Jn 5:24 that when one believes, they HAVE eternal life. Then.

And He also said in Jn 10:28 that those to whom He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH. I don't see how anyone can get around that.

Eternal life is given WHEN one believes, and Jesus said that those who believe will never perish.

And He gave no conditions, exceptions, or caveats. Such as ceasing to believe.

• You have admitted that a person can in fact stop believing.

• You have also stated that a person is not a believer anymore when they stop believing.

Now all that is left, is for you to show us the verses that say unbelievers have eternal life and will never perish.


JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

I don't see how anyone can get around that.

By reading the rest of scripture.

 

[OzSpen]

By reading the rest of scripture.

That's a tough call for someone with a fixation on OSAS and a few verses of alleged support.

 

[smaller]

22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. Romans 11:22-23

The only way a person who has been "broken off", because of unbelief, is return to believing, and God will graft them back in.

Most believers can't believe their own eyes, as they read The Mystery of Romans 11:25-32.

To me, it is clear, now. But I read that for at least 10 years BEFORE God allowed me to see it. So I sympathize with those who can not.

 

[smaller]

That's a tough call for someone with a fixation on OSAS and a few verses of alleged support.

Once any "believer" sees that it is God in Christ who actually SAVES us and GIVES us eternal life, there is no looking back, particularly to ourselves. Easy peasy.

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

We might even observe, not even ourselves can pluck ourselves out of Gods Hands. We ARE included in this statement of fact.

 

[JLB]

Most believers can't believe their own eyes, as they read The Mystery of Romans 11:25-32.

To me, it is clear, now. But I read that for at least 10 years BEFORE God allowed me to see it. So I sympathize with those who can not.

Is this the same "God" that allowed you to see that Satan dwells in everyone's "flesh", and that it's him doing the sinning and not the person?



JLB

 

[smaller]

Is this the same "God" that allowed you to see that Satan dwells in everyone's "flesh", and that it's him doing the sinning and not the person?
JLB

It's not hard for me to accept that sin dwells in our flesh, that evil is present with us, and that sin is of the devil. Not at all. It's all in black and white, permanently recorded in many places. Romans 7:17-25, 1 John 3:8 etc.

Do I expect the flesh, and the tempter, to admit to these facts? Never. That is why those who are under his influences in the flesh try to diminish believers to possible eternal torture. So, again, I sympathize with the problem because I know people on the other side of the fence CAN'T see it because they are in fact still "in the flesh."

 

[JLB]

Most believers can't believe their own eyes, as they read The Mystery of Romans 11:25-32.

To me, it is clear, now. But I read that for at least 10 years BEFORE God allowed me to see it. So I sympathize with those who can not.

Here is what Jesus said to the folks your claiming are somehow going to be saved, though they have long since died in unbelief.

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. John 8:42-45



Here is what God Himself will send against those who are enemies of the Gospel, and are planning to build the Temple for the false Messiah they are waiting for, because they have rejected the Truth.

The have rejected Jesus as Messiah.


9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12




JLB

 

[JLB]

It's not hard for me to accept that sin dwells in our flesh, that evil is present with us,

Sin does dwell in our flesh.


What you teach is Satan is the sin that dwells in our flesh.

A messenger of Satan dwells in everyone's flesh.


JLB

 

[smaller]

That's a tough call for someone with a fixation on OSAS and a few verses of alleged support.

Jesus IS Eternal Life. And yes, we ARE to be fixated upon HIM.

I don't know why any believer would celebrate or be fixated upon their prideful fleshly presumptions that they can ESCAPE from Him, of their own accord. That is rather ridiculous if you ask me. There is no avenue of escape open to any believer. And why would we even think there was?

Hebrews 12:25
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

 

[Cygnus]

That's a tough call for someone with a fixation on OSAS and a few verses of alleged support.

I would have to say....if it is possible to lose your salvation...you already have.

As for me, I know OSAS to be the truth. No one can snatch me out of the Fathers hands.

 

[smaller]

Here is what Jesus said to the folks your claiming are somehow going to be saved, though they have long since died in unbelief.

The unbeliever is one who has not yet submitted to not escaping His Eternal Life. Nevertheless, ANY who have accepted Christ, even if their own flesh says otherwise, will NOT escape, ever.

Hebrews 12:25
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

Seems rather plain to me.

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. John 8:42-45

Here is what God Himself will send against those who are enemies of the Gospel, and are planning to build the Temple for the false Messiah they are waiting for, because they have rejected the Truth.

It is no mystery to me why you fail to recognize the operations of the TEMPTER, the devil, in the blinded of Israel OR in the flesh of the blinded OR in our own flesh. Your brand of theology has no accounting for ALL the parties to the drama.

The have rejected Jesus as Messiah.

The deception in our own flesh will NEVER accept Gods Divine Superiority over ALL THINGS. That can't happen. The flesh is MADE to be contrary to God and to RESIST God. We all have the identical problem, in our own flesh, because it is CONTRARY to God in Christ. Gal. 5:17. The flesh will continue to say otherwise, always, til it DIES it's very real death.

 

[smaller]

Sin does dwell in our flesh.

Well, isn't that just a brilliant conclusion of fact.

What you teach is Satan is the sin that dwells in our flesh.

A messenger of Satan dwells in everyone's flesh.

JLB

Sin is of the devil. There is no argument from me on this count. 1 John 3:8 and Mark 4:15 are identical and in accord.

Yes, the tempter DOES enter our hearts to steal from us, to deceive us, to tempt us and even tries to get us to ETERNALLY DESTROY each others.

Who is your master?

 

[JLB]

The unbeliever is one who has not yet submitted to not escaping His Eternal Life. Nevertheless, ANY who have accepted Christ, even if their own flesh says otherwise, will NOT escape, ever.

Hebrews 12:25
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

Seems rather plain to me.



It is no mystery to me why you fail to recognize the operations of the TEMPTER, the devil, in the blinded of Israel OR in the flesh of the blinded OR in our own flesh. Your brand of theology has no accounting for ALL the parties to the drama.


The deception in our own flesh will NEVER accept Gods Divine Superiority over ALL THINGS. That can't happen. The flesh is MADE to be contrary to God and to RESIST God. We all have the identical problem, in our own flesh, because it is CONTRARY to God in Christ. Gal. 5:17. The flesh will continue to say otherwise, always, til it DIES it's very real death.

Those who walk in the Spirit and set their minds on the things of the Spirit, walk in dominion over the sinful manifestations of the flesh, as they have put to death the deeds of the flesh.


You unbiblical doctrine teaches that we are still "slaves" to the flesh, when the bible teaches the victory over the sinful deeds of the flesh by the Spirit.

For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:13,16


Paul by the Spirit plainly says... do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh.

• Those who walk after the flesh, are condemned...

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit...5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:1,5-6

• Those who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10


8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8



JLB

 

[JLB]

Sin is of the devil. There is no argument from me on this count. 1 John 3:8 and Mark 4:15 are identical and in accord.

False!!!

He who sins are of the devil.

8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. 1 John 3:8


You twist the scriptures to repackage the meaning, to fit your Mormon doctrine.


Those who are born of God keep themselves... The devil does not touch them.

18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18


JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes, the tempter DOES enter our hearts to steal from us, to deceive us, to tempt us and even tries to get us to ETERNALLY DESTROY each others.

False!!!

The devil may enter the hearts of unbelievers, to steal the seed.

Those who are born of God keep themselves... The devil does not touch them.

18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18



JLB

 

[smaller]

Those who walk in the Spirit and set their minds on the things of the Spirit, walk in dominion over the sinful manifestations of the flesh, as they have put to death the deeds of the flesh.

No believer in their right mind will excuse the evil present with them, the sin indwelling their flesh. It is a ridiculous sight to say otherwise. Believers really shouldn't lie about these facts. Nobody's flesh is immune from evil present with us or sin dwelling in our own sorry hides, claiming it isn't so. Such are just common liars in the flesh. NOT that I think such believers will be lost. Not at all. They just fail to see their own condition because of the deception of their own contrary to the Spirit, against the Spirit, flesh. Gal. 5:17

You can claim it isn't so, but it IS so. The flesh is and remains contrary to the Spirit. That's all there is to it.
[Suggesting another is a liar. Violation of ToS 2.4 WIP]

 

[Cygnus]

False!!!

The devil may enter the hearts of unbelievers, to steal the seed.

Those who are born of God keep themselves... The devil does not touch them.

18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18



JLB

I see this verse thrown around a lot.....
Just what does "does not sin" from 1 John 5:8 actually mean?