In and out of Salvation - consequences of committing sins

[Brother Mike]

Just how does "God is faithful and just to forgive our sin and clean us from all unrighteousness," translate as "sin is of the devil, and members obeying the devil become his servant"? And how does Rom. 16:6 support this idea: "6 Greet Mary, who has worked hard for you" (ESV)?
Romans (x)6:16............... OOOOPS........... again.

I think you mean "righteousness," not "unrighteousness".
OOOPS...................................

What are you saying here?

Rom_6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Thanks for actually reading my post. Got pretty beat up as I am on a notebook with little keys.

Quick summary of what I was trying to convey.

Sin is of the devil, came from the devil and came to the whole earth the day Adam obeyed the devil. Jesus came for the sole purpose of destroying the works of the devil, Death, destruction, theft, and of course sin which leads to death.

1Jn_3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

If we violate the light God has given us as sin is not imputed where there is no law, but even personal light, Such as watching things we know inside we should not be, then that is sin, and who sins is of the devil and gives the devil a place, much like Adam.

Sin also can remove our confidence toward God, or our belief in our right standing with God. (Righteousness) Our heart condemns us despite being forgiven, hurting our confidence to ask God for help or things. Sin destroys this confidence, this right standing in our own minds and our heart condemns

God said I'll restore that right standing by cleaning out the things that were not right (unrighteousness) and make it so the sin never happened.

Jesus said people receive food and things but seek the Kingdom of God (God's things, way, and will) and understand His right standing with you or seek His righteousness. Our confidence in Him (Faith) determines what we can receive. The devil seeks to kill, steal and destroy through condemnation and getting us to listen to his nonsense.

Hope it's clear.
Mike.

 

[Brother Mike]

About the most brilliant conclusion I've seen here in awhile. Congrats on seeing the obvious culprit.

Thanx Smaller, but it was Rom 6:16, I messed that up God bless.

 

[Free]

I dont think someone needs to confess to be forgiven.

Then you're going against what the Bible says and your argument is with Scripture.

 

[Corn Pop]

Then you're going against what the Bible says and your argument is with Scripture.

So you think someone can only be forgiven if they ask for it?. That fails because I have forgiven people who never confessed. I forgave them and they never confessed, repented or asked me for it.

 

[OzSpen]

I dont think someone needs to confess to be forgiven. Do you think Steven forgave his persecutors without them asking for forgiveness?. If he didnt forgive them he would not have prayed for them asking forgiveness. I think they were forgiven without even knowing it or repenting/confessing.

Let's read the text of what happened when Stephen was being stoned:

54 The Jewish leaders were infuriated by Stephen’s accusation, and they shook their fists at him in rage. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed steadily into heaven and saw the glory of God, and he saw Jesus standing in the place of honor at God’s right hand. 56 And he told them, “Look, I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing in the place of honor at God’s right hand!”

57 Then they put their hands over their ears and began shouting. They rushed at him 58 and dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. His accusers took off their coats and laid them at the feet of a young man named Saul.

59 As they stoned him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 He fell to his knees, shouting, “Lord, don’t charge them with this sin!” And with that, he died.
(Acts 7:54-60 NLT).

The text states that Stephen prayed, 'Lord, don’t charge them with this sin!' The word, forgiveness, is not used in v. 60 but the thought may be in view.

Arguing from silence, 'Do you think Steven forgave his persecutors without them asking for forgiveness?' (your words) is a logical fallacy.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

So you think someone can only be forgiven if they ask for it?. That fails because I have forgiven people who never confessed. I forgave them and they never confessed, repented or asked me for it.

You're switching horses. We are discussing the need for believers to forgive others who sin against us. We are not discussing the need for unbelievers or others to ask for forgiveness before we can forgive them. That would be foolish reasoning because it is presumptuous to expect those who are sinned against to say or demand, 'It's time for you to seek my forgiveness'. It is up to the believer to say, 'I have sinned/done wrong to you. Will you please forgive me?'

That's how the Bible puts it and I've already given you several verses to demonstrate that this is the biblical position:

• Eph 4:32 (NLT): 'Instead, be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you'.

• Matt 6:12 (NLT): 'and forgive us our sins, as we have forgiven those who sin against us'.
• Col 3:13 (NLT): 'Make allowance for each other’s faults, and forgive anyone who offends you. Remember, the Lord forgave you, so you must forgive others'.

At no point does the Bible state that a person can only be forgiven if that person asks you or me for forgiveness. You're barking up the wrong tree. The biblical position is that it is the Christian who takes the initiative and seeks forgiveness of those they have sinned against.

That's Bible and you seem to be resisting the biblical mandate.

Oz

 

[Douglas Summers]

Alright. I have a hard time understanding this!
So what happens to someone who commits or committed a sin? He is out of Salvation?

If not, why should we confess sins then?

No, The born again believer is not sinless because of the weakness of the flesh, but what is different with the born again believer is, he does not now practice sin. But if we do sin, we confess our sins before the Lord ( for He is our advocate, our propitiation) and He is able and just to forgive us. For the flesh is against the Spirit and Spirit against the flesh that we do not always do as we should, but we are not under law, but under grace. (Gal. 5:15-17) (Book of 1 John) It is called God's Mercy and Grace. We are all sinners, some realize it and turn to God, others refuse to admit it.

 

[Corn Pop]

Does God forgive me all my sins past, present, and future, or only the sins I repent and confess ?

I mean, I have sinned a billion times, im doomed if God only forgives the sins I have confessed. I asked once for forgiveness, is that not enough for God?

 

[Corn Pop]

I think maybe hebrews 6 explains it.

 

[smaller]

Thanx Smaller, but it was Rom 6:16, I messed that up God bless.

Same issue there in any case.

 

[smaller]

Does God forgive me all my sins past, present, and future, or only the sins I repent and confess ?

I mean, I have sinned a billion times, im doomed if God only forgives the sins I have confessed. I asked once for forgiveness, is that not enough for God?

The reasons believers (generally) go round and round on these subjects is when trying to land on one side of various lines when there are 2 or more truths in play, both true, yet opposed.

I've used this example many times. But readers can't believe their eyes. Below in Paul's example we should be able to see two parties. One is forgiven. One is not forgiven, can not be forgiven, never will be forgiven. So essentially two separate truths exist in one tidy little box of flesh. The man/Paul, or even as Saul, not having sins counted against him ala 2 Cor. 5:19, and another party altogether, even with Saul prior in his blinded unbelief as shown in 2 Cor. 4:4 and Eph. 2:2 who can't be forgiven.

2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

But this is a hard place of understanding to get to, because to get there we have to see that the "evil present" with us is a foreign occupier of the flesh, yes, our own. And the invader will blind the captive to this matter just like clockwork. IT will also seek that which is not "his" to have.

The bottom line is that the spirit of disobedience has been bound into the flesh by God Himself. God Himself put "enmity" between man and the serpent very early on in Genesis. That "enmity" is IN THE FLESH.

If readers are incognizant to this reality, they won't understand too much in the ways of scriptures OR in Gods Ways in general. Because God is not engaged with only man. The spirit of disobedience reigns in blinded flesh. Eph. 2:2. That spirit of disobedience functions in the ways that we are shown in the scriptures, Mark 4:15 as a primary example.

It's such a simple principle, once seen. But it can not be seen unless God Himself allows any person to see that their own sin in the flesh and evil present with them is for no uncertain fact of the "spirit of disobedience". Those who do not see will, in blindness, claim that spirit of disobedience is not in their flesh, or they will excuse it, or cover it up, or claim it's "obedience" and any number of other false claims. But it is not 'really the person' performing these lies, but the other.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Does God forgive me all my sins past, present, and future, or only the sins I repent and confess ?

I mean, I have sinned a billion times, im doomed if God only forgives the sins I have confessed. I asked once for forgiveness, is that not enough for God?

God in Jesus Christ has forgiven the believer their past sins (Rom. 3:23-28). Presently the believer is being saved from the habit and dominion of sin (Rom. 6:14-23) (Gal. 2:19-21). Future, At the Lord's return, believers will be saved and healed from all the bodily infirmities that are the result of sin (Rom. 8:18-23) (1 Cor. 15:42-44). We do not know what we shall be, but when we see Him, we will be like Him. We are saved full circle: past, present and future. It is not confession of all sins, it is a confession that your are a sinner which covers all sins (not as an excuse for sinning) But that you understand that you need the Lord. (Rom.7:14-8:17)

 

[sparrow]

A Believer doesn't move from being justified by faith to being unjustified by the act(s) of sin.

Correct.

 

[Classik]

No, The born again believer is not sinless because of the weakness of the flesh, but what is different with the born again believer is, he does not now practice sin. But if we do sin, we confess our sins before the Lord ( for He is our advocate, our propitiation) and He is able and just to forgive us. For the flesh is against the Spirit and Spirit against the flesh that we do not always do as we should, but we are not under law, but under grace. (Gal. 5:15-17) (Book of 1 John) It is called God's Mercy and Grace. We are all sinners, some realize it and turn to God, others refuse to admit it.

That is to say, should Christ come at that instant the person sinned he or she would make heaven in spite of the sin?

 

[Douglas Summers]

That is to say, should Christ come at that instant the person sinned he or she would make heaven in spite of the sin?

If you were in sin while the Lord returned, you would ashamed at His appearing (1 John 2:28), althou I can't imagine sinning wilfully (on purpose) as a born again believer. You might lose your reward. (the Lord rewards those who are dilligent in their service for the Lord) and rewards us with Crowns. (Rev. 3:10-11) There are 5 crowns that are awarded and they are awards of authority and position in the coming Kingdom of God. And when we are called up to the Throne of God, this is what we do with the crowns we were awarded (Rev. 4:9-11). Here is what a sinning saint might expect. (1 Cor. 3:11-23). Being saved is not the will of man. Saving what is lost is by the will of God. (John 1:11-13)

 

[OzSpen]

Does God forgive me all my sins past, present, and future, or only the sins I repent and confess ?

I mean, I have sinned a billion times, im doomed if God only forgives the sins I have confessed. I asked once for forgiveness, is that not enough for God?

See #66 to discover Scripture to demonstrate that your view is not consistent with the biblical evidence.