Infant Baptism and the Bible: Should Babies Be Baptized?

[Scotth1960]

the catholic church is considered part of the fold of christ.

francis may not be in agreement with the protestants here on alot of things, but its a bit much to call him a heathen.

if you cant be nice, then dont post.

or infraction will be issued.

Dear jasoncran. AMEN. We should not attempt to judge any other person. So God bless you Francis, and God bless you too, that other person whoever they were who was being unkind toward Francis. I may disagree with either Protestant or Catholic views, but I am sure all people are sincere in their convictions and motivations and all are seeking truths from God's Word, the Holy Bible. If we happen at all to disagree in any major (or minor) way regarding what are the points of Christian doctrine, we should all avoid ad hominem arguments and we all none of should not at all use any bad language toward anyone. God bless all of us. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

 

[Jake]

the catholic church is considered part of the fold of christ.

francis may not be in agreement with the protestants here on alot of things, but its a bit much to call him a heathen.

if you cant be nice, then dont post.

or infraction will be issued.

jason,
To set the record straight, I did not call Francis a heathen.

 

[Jake]

I warned you about this sort of post. You have been reported.

Ok, I apologize, Francis.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The BASIC question which hasn't been addressed.

Biblically, what is the "Spiritual effect" on the infant of performing the ritual?????

Does it make them "Children of God" - Scriptures please

Does it achieve "Repentance for sin" - Scriptures please

Does it make them "Fireproof" - Scriptures please

Does it cleanse a small portion of their anatomy - well O.K. 1 out of 4 - no Scriptures required.

Post the Scriptures that detail the effect of Paedobaptism on an Infant.

 

[Vince]

"Dear Vince, So should we accept to word of a "friendly, easy-going Atheist" as an expert and a purveyor of the objective truth regarding "ancient church history" and Christian doctrine and practice? In Erie PA Scott H. "

No, we're to believe the Bible, which never shows baptism of anybody except those who have accepted Christ as Savior, which shows no office of Christian priests, and which never mentions a Pope.

But as an historical side note, I thought it was interesting.

 

[Mike]

This thread is being temporarily locked and cleaned up of violations of our ToS. I'll re-open it after I believe it's been scrubbed enough.

DO NOT attack other members. Beliefs should be addressed; not members themselves.

 

[Mike]

Many posts were either edited or deleted. I'm unlocking this thread and insist that responses focus on beliefs; not members themselves.

Thank you

 

[whitney]

This is clearly not true - the Bible tells us nothing about the appropriate medical treatments for cancer.

With all due respect, Drew, the Bible is complete in giving us instructions to live our lives righteously.
James 5:14 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up.

And there are millions of other examples. This notion that the Bible tells us everthing we need to know is simply untrue, but that in no way diminishes its force as the living and powerful word of God.

Please provide a few examples where we can not find the answer to life's problems in the Bible.

I politely suggest that you, like Cornelius, are being deeply irresponsible and reckless, if you are specifically agreeing with Cornelius' position that people should avoid medical therapy and seek only "miracle cures". Is this what you are agreeing with whitney? If a close relative developed a cancer for which effective medical therapies presently exist, would you advise them to forego such treatments?

Perhaps this is not what you are agreeing with. But I suggest when people adopt ideas like those of Cornelius on this matter, people die.

I gave you the verse in James and there are plenty of other verses pointing to this, however, this thread is about infant baptism and if I go any further, it will derail it into a healing thread. I believe the James scripture is sufficient in answering your question.

This is why these discussions are so important - Cornelius (and now you, apparently) embrace an entirely non-existant distinction between the "sacred" and the "secular".

I am not sure what you are communicating here, Drew. Are you saying there is not a difference between "sacred" and "secural"? If you are saying this, then I would have to disagree with you. The world finds their answers in the world, which would be a secural way and Christians turn to the Word to find their answers, in prayer, in reading scripture. Is this what you are saying?

And, of course, you have not supported your position scripturally (at least in this post - I will read any others shortly), as you were challenged to do. And the reason for this is simple - the Bible nowhere divides things into "spiritual" and "worldly".

I think it does divide things into worldy and spiritual, the Bible is a set of instructions on how to be spiritual and to NOT be worldy. We can not pick up His cross daily and die to ourselves if we are worldly.

To think that protecting a human being with a vaccine is somehow "less spiritual" than some other activity that has the trappings of religious observance is to miss one of the most foundational Biblical truths - Jesus is lord of all, not just the realm of "spirituality".

I am not saying it is less spiritual, I am simply telling you what I do. How can I be a judge of someone's spirituality?

Like many others you beg the question - you simply assume the very thing you should be demonstrating.

You lost me on this statement. I'm sure it was clear, it's just my simple mind not being able to grasp your concept. Can you please be more specific?

 

[francisdesales]

Ok, I apologize, Francis.

Rockie,

I accept your apology.

I realize we disagree on theology, but we should remember that we both love the Lord Jesus Christ. There are a lot bigger fish to fry out there than each other...

Take care

 

[Vince]

As a Catholic elementary school student, I sat in "Church History" class. The nun, using a Catholic textbook, taught us about "the abominable custom" of waiting until you were on your deathbed to be baptized, and how the Catholic Church countered this custom by pushing for infant baptism in the fourth century.

 

[Drew]

Amen C!

I am sorry whitney, but Cornelius was not answering the questions I posed and he has still not done so despite repeated requests to do so.

So let me ask you to answer the specific questions posed in post 346.

 

[Drew]

Re: The BASIC question which hasn't been addressed.

Biblically, what is the "Spiritual effect" on the infant of performing the ritual?????

Does it make them "Children of God" - Scriptures please

Does it achieve "Repentance for sin" - Scriptures please

Does it make them "Fireproof" - Scriptures please

OK, this one is easy. Here is a text that clearly shows that baptism effects the death of the "old man". Therefore somethng "non-symbolic" really does happen upon baptism. And there is no evidence at all that this cannot work for an infant as well:

Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his

The text says what it says - I take as it reads, that baptism effects a real death. I am not the one who, with no apparent justification, will turn this into a purely symbolic action.

So here we have a text that clearly states that baptism is part and parcel of the renewal of the human person - it constitutes the "death" of the old fallen man. It is up to the opponents of infant baptism to explain why this cannot be effectual for infants.

Post the Scriptures that detail the effect of Paedobaptism on an Infant.

Not a valid request. The implication is that "if there is no text authorizing infant baptism, then the practice should be eschewed". This is simply not correct thinking. There are no Biblical texts authorizing sending men to the moon, or treating cancer with radiation, yet these things are rather obviously legitimate and proper.

 

[whitney]

I am sorry whitney, but Cornelius was not answering the questions I posed and he has still not done so despite repeated requests to do so.

So let me ask you to answer the specific questions posed in post 346.

I can't speak for C, but maybe it has something to do with derailing the thread. You are trying to prove infant baptism AND disprove sola scripture in the same thread.

If those questions are answered, then we would be arguing about the validity of the answers and not infant baptism.

Maybe you could start a new thread with those questions and then you would get your answers. Just a thought.

 

[reba]

Not a valid request. The implication is that "if there is no text authorizing infant baptism, then the practice should be eschewed". This is simply not correct thinking. There are no Biblical texts authorizing sending men to the moon, or treating cancer with radiation, yet these things are rather obviously legitimate and proper.

Drew treating cancer going to the moon? These two examples are not any part of religious or spiritual life.

 

[Drew]

I can't speak for C, but maybe it has something to do with derailing the thread. You are trying to prove infant baptism AND disprove sola scripture in the same thread.

If those questions are answered, then we would be arguing about the validity of the answers and not infant baptism.

Maybe you could start a new thread with those questions and then you would get your answers. Just a thought.

No whitney - these questions are indeed deeply relevant to the topic at issue. Here's why:

1. People like Cornelius (and perhaps you) have made this assertion (basically): "Since we are not instructed to baptize infants in the Bible, and since the only source of authority for life is the Bible, we are therefore not to baptize infants";

2. I posed a number of questions in post 346 which, if answered honestly, will show the incorrectness of the belief that "the only source for authority is the Bible" which will, in turn, undermine the objection to baptism as per item (1) above.

Cornelius (and now you) will not answer these questions. But you need to answer them since they are indeed relevant to the matter at issue.

Do you see what I mean now?

 

[Drew]

Drew treating cancer going to the moon? These two examples are not any part of religious or spiritual life.

Not the point, and incorrect anyway - the Bible nowhere divides human activity into the "sacred" and the "spiritual".

But, in any event, the relevant point is this: If your objection to infant baptism is that "its not found in the Bible", then you should also object to treating cancer and going to the moon, since they are not found in the Bible.

But if you insist on making the argument you are making - the one about this division of spiritual and worldly - let me ask you this: Is the doctrine of the Trinity found in the Bible? Answer: No. Do you believe it? If so, why?

 

[reba]

I will disagree tell the cows come home


1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.


About baptizing babies i dont think it matters one way or the other so i am out of here......

 

[Drew]

I will disagree tell the cows come home


1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.


About baptizing babies i dont think it matters one way or the other so i am out of here......

What you need to realize is that Paul clearly uses the term "spiritual" here to refer to a quality of a physical body. Paul is describing the nature of the resurrected body and he is using the term "spiritual" to describe this transformed body.

With all due respect, I think you (and others) are deeply in error with any efforts to carve up God's kingdom into a "spiritual" and a "secular" domain. This is nowhere supported in the Bible and it cashes out in practice to people effectively believing that Jesus is not Lord of all after all - He is only lord of a mysterious spiritaul domain. And that, I suggest, is a massive error.

 

[whitney]

Questions posed by Drew:
1. Do you believe that we should treat cancer patients with chemotherapy?
2. Is there any Biblical statement advocating treating cancer with chemotherapy?
3. Do you believe that women should be given equal pay to men for equal work?
4. Is there any Biblical statement that women should be paid the same as men?
5. Do you believe that an airline pilot who is legally drunk should be allowed to pilot a commercial airplane?
6. Is there any Biblical statement that would prohibit a drunk pilot from flying a commercial airplane?
7. If it is discovered that many valuable mineral resource exist on the moon, and if technology exists to bring them to earth cheaply and with no risk, and many lives would be improved if we did this, should we do it?
8. Is there any Biblical text authorizing mining from the moon?
************************************************
I will answer these Drew, but I still think you should start a new thread.
1). I have already answered this question.
2). I have already answered this question.
3). Proverbs 31
4). Proverbs 31
5). Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler; And whosoever erreth thereby is not wise.

Proverbs 20:30They that tarry long at the wine; They that go to seek out mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, When it sparkleth in the cup, When it goeth down smoothly: At the last it biteth like a serpent, And stingeth like an adder. Thine eyes shall behold strange things, And thy heart shall utter perverse things.

6). You are asking me what the world would do, I just told you what God said about it.

7 & 8). Phillipians 4:19-20 And my God shall supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus. Now unto our God and Father be the glory for ever and ever. Amen.


As Christians, why would we be concerned about finding resources on the moon?
Jesus is coming soon and we need to be prepared for what is to come!



Matthew 6:25-34 25 Therefore I say unto you, be not anxious for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than the food, and the body than the raiment?
26 Behold the birds of the heaven, that they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not ye of much more value then they?
27 And which of you by being anxious can add one cubit unto the measure of his life?
28 And why are ye anxious concerning raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 But if God doth so clothe the grass of the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Be not therefore anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 For after all these things do the Gentiles seek; for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Be not therefore anxious for the morrow: for the morrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

 

[whitney]

Not the point, and incorrect anyway - the Bible nowhere divides human activity into the "sacred" and the "spiritual".

But, in any event, the relevant point is this: If your objection to infant baptism is that "its not found in the Bible", then you should also object to treating cancer and going to the moon, since they are not found in the Bible.

But if you insist on making the argument you are making - the one about this division of spiritual and worldly - let me ask you this: Is the doctrine of the Trinity found in the Bible? Answer: No. Do you believe it? If so, why?

Drew,
I can not believe you are saying this, and I mean no disrespect at all, I believe you are honestly trying to see the other side, however, Jesus told us to put away the ways of the world.
Do you know you are part of the Body of Christ? You are dead now, it is He who lives in you. People either forget or they don't know this!
We are Holy, set apart, set apart from what? The world. We do not do as the world does, we does as Christ does.
I know I need to give scripture, I will if you need, I can back up everything I just said with scripture.