Intellectually impossible?

[paulo75]

There are many people who claim that they can't accept God on a purely intellectual level. One person who comes to mind is comedian George Carlin. He says that he honestly tried his best to believe in God, but just can't find the logic.

What do you say to people who claim that they have tried their hardest, but that they haven't found Him? You can't say that they haven't tried enough, because you should take a persons opinion at face value until proven otherwise.

Thoughts?

 

[Vic C.]

Paulo, what I have learned from experience... and from Scripture is this:

HE finds us. Most people "searching" for God usually wind up worshiping someone or something other that the God of the Bible. All "men" serve" someone or something.


George is full of himself. 8-)

Prov 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Prov 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

 

[Imagican]

Good one Vic.

And perhaps George was trying in the WRONG 'way'. That instead of through hope he was LOOKING for 'something intellectual' to 'believe in'. Asking the wrong questions and seeking the wrong answer.

MEC

 

[biblecatholic]

There are many people who claim that they can't accept God on a purely intellectual level. One person who comes to mind is comedian George Carlin. He says that he honestly tried his best to believe in God, but just can't find the logic.

What do you say to people who claim that they have tried their hardest, but that they haven't found Him? You can't say that they haven't tried enough, because you should take a persons opinion at face value until proven otherwise.

Thoughts?

Many people are led by reason to God. Faith and reason are not enemies.

The thing with george (and I've listened to him talk many times) he has walls around his heart and unless he takes them down or allows the Lord to, no matter how much intellect he uses his spirit/heart will remain closed off to the Lord....he has been involved with a lot of occult and drug use(that brings many spiritual illnesses because of drugs opening your spirit up and the curses placed on the drugs before people use them*I know that sounds crazy, but it's true*) so there is a lot of healing needed, which he has to be open to...... I would say the biggest hurdle in his life is that all the christians in his life let him down and thats the number reason why people dont become christians. cause many christians dont strive to live the faith

 

[GraceBwithU]

There are many people who claim that they can't accept God on a purely intellectual level. One person who comes to mind is comedian George Carlin. He says that he honestly tried his best to believe in God, but just can't find the logic.

What do you say to people who claim that they have tried their hardest, but that they haven't found Him? You can't say that they haven't tried enough, because you should take a persons opinion at face value until proven otherwise.

Thoughts?

Why would you go to George Carlin for biblical truth and wisdom? You may as well attend a satanic ritual to find spiritual guidance. You say you are a Christian but you seem to enjoy dancing with the devil. If you dance with the devil...the devil will not change...you will. It is no wonder that you have doubts. :

Accepting Jesus is not something you try to do it is something that you a drawn to do. George Carlin has shown his allegiance to Satan for so long that he may have missed the spirits call. Sad but true. :

Salvation and belief in Jesus is not something that a person works for, it is something that is given to us without any justification on our end. I believe a person can say NO to this call enough times that the call will no longer be strong enough for us to hear it. George Carlin may have said No enough that he can't believe. :

 

[Free]

Many people are led by reason to God.

C. S. Lewis would be a prime example.

I think that reason does point the way to God and that any failure to due so is either by denial of the logical conclusion or problems with the premises.

 

[Imagican]

Yes,

Even the likes of Einstein and Newton, (avid scientist), were led to one conclusion; that there MUST be a 'creator' for such order to exist.

But, God IS Spiritual and by being so, demands that our understanding of his existence be accepted on a 'spiritual level' that is BEYOND intellectuallism. His wisdom and that of this world are most definitely SEPARATE. And one often is able to repel the other in the minds of men.

MEC

 

[mutzrein]

Man can never apprehend God by the intellect because it is of the flesh. The flesh counts for nothing. It is the Spirit that gives life.

 

[TanNinety]

tried to believe in God, but just can't find the logic.

That is not how logic works. You don't start with a conclusion and work your way back to fit a logic into it. That's counter-intuitive.

To even apply logic what you first need is data. Without data logic is useless. What our George needs to say is that he just can't find the data/evidence for God. The only data he can apply to the logic to figure out if God exists is his personal experience. There is not much objectively you can say to this person. You can offer your personal experience for his data, if only he will allow it as 'evidence'. This is what scripture is, Christians accepting the personal experiences of the authors as evidence. When you apply this evidence to logic you conclude that God exists, but if someone does not accept this as evidence then there is nothing much you can do about it.

But I fail to see how one can accept God bypassing intellect? If one is not able to know, perceive, reason and reflect about the nature of God, then how can anyone accept the concept of a deity?

 

[Drew]

Man can never apprehend God by the intellect because it is of the flesh. The flesh counts for nothing. It is the Spirit that gives life.

Hello mutzrein:

I will suggest an alternative to the "flesh - Spirit" distinction that I understand you as drawing. I don't know exactly where you are coming from, but I do not think Paul ever intended his reader to think in terms of a "flesh (physical) vs Spirit (immaterial)" dualism. I think that when Paul referred to the "flesh", he was referring to the total person - brain and all - in its pre-regeneration state. Paul would, in my opinion anyway, contrast that with the post-regeneration state in which the entire person - brain and all - has been renewed.

I therefore do not think it is even meaningful to put the "intellect" in a different category than "spirit". This is a complicated issue and I may not have correctly represented you. Sorry, if that's the case.

 

[mutzrein]

Man can never apprehend God by the intellect because it is of the flesh. The flesh counts for nothing. It is the Spirit that gives life.

Hello mutzrein:

I will suggest an alternative to the "flesh - Spirit" distinction that I understand you as drawing. I don't know exactly where you are coming from, but I do not think Paul ever intended his reader to think in terms of a "flesh (physical) vs Spirit (immaterial)" dualism. I think that when Paul referred to the "flesh", he was referring to the total person - brain and all - in its pre-regeneration state. Paul would, in my opinion anyway, contrast that with the post-regeneration state in which the entire person - brain and all - has been renewed.

I therefore do not think it is even meaningful to put the "intellect" in a different category than "spirit". This is a complicated issue and I may not have correctly represented you. Sorry, if that's the case.

No problem Drew. I don't agree with you and neither, I believe, did Paul when he wrote: " Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?"

 

[Imagican]

Considering that the intellect of man IS carnal by NATURE, it only stands to reason that that which IS carnal is UNABLE to conform TO the will of God THROUGH the intellect. It needs be a 'spiritual circumcision' that take place. THUS conforming the intellect INTO that which is pleasing to God.

One cannot 'think' his way to God. For God does NOT conform to the whims of the human mind but IN SPIRIT He IS able to transform what one THINKS into that which is ABOVE the meager wisdom of men.

The scriptures state this over and over. That the MINDS and wisdom of men are INCAPABLE of following ANYTHING other than that which IS carnal UNTIL they are 'transformed' into that which IS Spiritual.

Love is NOT an 'intellectual' endeavor. One cannot 'think' love. It is something that defies the intellect. The words itself indicates SELF and one's ability to THINK for THEMSELVES. The Spirit IS communal and the ONLY way that one is able to partake in it's offerings is to DENY self for the sake of others. God FIRST and one's neighbors AS themselves. And this is NOT something that one is ABLE to 'come to' through his OWN reasoning.

If it were NOT so, then Christ would NOT have need come and die for our sakes. If we were ABLE to conform OURSELVES, intellectually, to that which is pleasing to God, then His Son would have been of NO effect or PURPOSE.

MEC