Is “Easter” in the original Scriptures?

[Hidden In Him]

There's nothing pagan about the Spring Equinox. I really don't mean to be rude but I really do think there's a tendency to associate anything not explicitly Christian with 'paganism'. Seasons and the movements of astral bodies are normal natural phenomena. Observing them isn't 'pagan'. This kind of hysteria only seems to exist amongst Protestants.

It's not hysteria, it's the Spring Equinox, LoL. It's observed by Wiccans:

Ostara (Spring Equinox) – The Wiccan Calendar – Wicca Living

Ostara is the Wiccan Sabbat celebrated at the Spring Equinox. It is the second of three spring festivals on the Wheel of the Year.

wiccaliving.com

By Luciferians:

How to Celebrate the Spring Equinox w/ Lilith & Ahriman

In recent years, Luciferian philosophy (along with other schools of thought) has explored and identified creative and positive elements from concepts of demonology, black magick and traditions including the Qliphoth. Let us look at two separate yet meaningful traditions from Hebrew Qabalah and...

luciferianapotheca.com

And by Satanists:

Exquisite Equinox! - Church of Satan

Many Satanists celebrate today’s pivot point, feeling simpatico with our homeworld’s continuing seasonal cycles. In the Northern Hemisphere, Spring arrives, succeeding Winter’s stasis with gradual verdant vivification. In the Southern Hemisphere, Autumn soothes after the sultry Summer months...

churchofsatan.com

Surely the company one keeps says something, yes? And I don't mean that mainline Christian denominations are doing anything deliberately nefarious. But if Spring Equinox did not have pagan origins, why would occultists all embrace it so unanimously?

 

[Free]

Yes. But it's based on historical common sense.

Is it, though?

I think your source isn't gathering the relevant facts, but just sets out from the outset to come to a predetermined conclusion.

That's certainly a strong claim--and one without basis, especially given that he is a legitimate NT scholar--which can also be applied to each of your sources. All the more, they're likely not Christian sources. Anti-Christian bias is everywhere, right?

Certainly there are opponents on the other side who have attempted to do the same thing, but I'm doing neither. I'm just telling you that a solid understanding of ancient culture strongly suggests the Catholic Church did indeed co-opt the Celtic observance of Spring Equinox just like the above author suggests they did.

But, again, that is all assumption.

Here is the crux of the matter: even if it was the case, does it really matter? We have some hymns of which the music is based on old secular songs, but the lyrics have been changed to teach Christian doctrine. Does that mean those songs are pagan or secular and that the Christians responsible are supporting secularism and shouldn't have done such a thing? Or, can we as Christians take worldly things and redeem them for Christ, bringing them under his Lordship?

If earlier Christians saw an opportunity to take what was profane and redeem them for Christ, so as to teach Christian truths to unbelievers using things they were familiar with, but imbuing them with Christian meaning, then isn't that a good thing? Couldn't it help pagans more easily understand and accept Christian doctrine when the same symbols are used, but with much stronger, deeper meanings (provided it's clear that their paganistic meanings are false)?

Alternatively, couldn't God, in his sovereignty, have appointed pagans to attach certain meanings to certain things, knowing that Christians could later use those very objects and symbols to teach of Christ's death and resurrection and the new life found in him?

It seems to me that even if the theory that the word Easter comes from a pagan goddess, and bunnies and eggs come from pagan religions, there is nothing inherently wrong with changing their use and meaning to teach Christian truths. In the least, it doesn't necessarily follow that Christianity would be teaching paganism or anything like that.

 

[LanaPodesta]

It's not hysteria, it's the Spring Equinox, LoL. It's observed by Wiccans:

They also observe the seasons, days of the week, and birthdays. What's your point?

But if Spring Equinox did not have pagan origins, why would occultists all embrace it so unanimously?

Loaded question. There's nothing pagan about it. Pagans also worshipped the sun, but there's nothing pagan about the SUN. It's where the worship is directed that is crucial.

 

[Walpole]

"a movement in 20th century Protestantism emphasizing the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching"

This could describe the vast majority of those posting here.

Exactly.

 

[Walpole]

Webster is of no use here. It's been largely considered a derogatory term, or at least acquired a pejorative use, quite some time ago. You certainly seemed to be using it pejoratively. Perhaps watch the video on it that I posted previously.

Anyway, let's not turn this into a discussion on the use of "fundamentalism."

Considered derogatory by whom? You are the only one who complained about it.

Would you prefer I simply call the posters here who emphasize the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching as simply Protestants?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Here is the crux of the matter: even if it was the case, does it really matter? We have some hymns of which the music is based on old secular songs, but the lyrics have been changed to teach Christian doctrine. Does that mean those songs are pagan or secular and that the Christians responsible are supporting secularism and shouldn't have done such a thing? Or, can we as Christians take worldly things and redeem them for Christ, bringing them under his Lordship?

But you can't do that, LoL. It's like saying it's ok to remake a secular rock song and Christiainize the lyrics, but then still have scantily clad woman gyrating in a cage in church, LoL. That's an exaggerated comparison of course, but they are not completely Christianizing the holiday by any stretch of the imagination. We are still inundated with the pagan symbols of fertility every year.

Warning: Deep lyrics forthcoming

Those who practice occultism chuckle at all this. At deeper levels they have archives going WAY back on the pagan traditions, and they know what the true origins and rituals were that have served as the basis of their faith.

It seems to me that even if the theory that the word Easter comes from a pagan goddess, and bunnies and eggs come from pagan religions, there is nothing inherently wrong with changing their use and meaning to teach Christian truths. In the least, it doesn't necessarily follow that Christianity would be teaching paganism or anything like that.

It's an incorporation, though, which goes to the point I just made. To me there is a problem when Satanists can celebrate our holidays in their own way. I have no problem with the Jewish holidays, and there is evidence the early church did actually observe several of those. But the early church fathers started to have big problems with things when Christians no longer celebrated things like Pentecost but WERE increasingly going back to celebrating the pagan festivals without any conscience. I do not think they would have approved of what we do today either.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Considered derogatory by whom? You are the only one who complained about it.

Would you prefer I simply call the posters here who emphasize the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching as simply Protestants?

Free. He must have me on block, LoL, but I think you are correct there. It's a stereotyping term.

 

[LanaPodesta]

The same point that is usually made when this subject is discussed: That the evidence suggests that what we call Easter was simply the incorporation of a pagan festival by the church, who then Christianized it

Well, I personally call it pascha. You realise 'Easter' is just another word for the same thing? The Church didn't 'Christianize' PASCHA...it's a Christian festival. I don't mean to sound rude but you do realise English isn't the only language on Earth, right?

But the Spring Equinox predated it.

Well yes...the Spring Equinox is a natural phenomena.

And although the name for the Celtic Spring festival has been lost, it was likely to be related the Ēostre or Ostara.

How is that likely? Eostre is supposedly a GERMANIC deity...not a Celtic one. Germanic peoples didn't come to the British Isles in significant numbers until the 5th century.

The godess Eostre’s symbol was a hare, and she represented the spring or dawn. Her festival, or feast day, was the March Equinox.

Is there a source for this? Our only reliable source is Bede. Did he say this?

When the Catholic church set about converting the pagans of Northern Europe, they co-opted the symbols of Pagan Eostre including the name, to their holy day marking the crucifixion of Christ, which fell around the same time.

Nope. BEDE chose the name that became 'Easter'. Bede WAS Northern European...he was an Anglo-Saxon. England was already Christian.

The ‘Easter Bunny’ as we know it today is thought to have originated in Germany, with links back to pre-Christian traditions and Eostre

Again, is there a source for any of this?

 

[LanaPodesta]

We are still inundated with the pagan symbols of fertility every year.

Are they in your church? They're not in mine. Maybe you're in the wrong church.

 

[Walpole]

They also observe the seasons, days of the week, and birthdays. What's your point?

Loaded question. There's nothing pagan about it. Pagans also worshipped the sun, but there's nothing pagan about the SUN. It's where the worship is directed that is crucial.

Bingo!

If these people who emphasize the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching knew all the things they use, say, do, etc. had their origins in paganism, I think they would burst a blood vessel.

Do they have wedding rings? --> Pagan in origin

Have they ever lit a votive candle? --> Pagan in origin

Do they use a calendar? --> Pagan in origin

 

[LanaPodesta]

Bingo!

If these people who emphasize the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching knew all the things they use, say, do, etc. had their origins in paganism, I think they would burst a blood vessel.

Do they have wedding rings? --> Pagan in origin

Have they ever lit a votive candle? --> Pagan in origin

Do they use a calendar? --> Pagan in origin

Right! You know what else is of pagan origin? YOU AND ME. Everyone in the world has 'pagan' ancestors, and naturally there will be traditions that date back to the SAME TIME as when pagan gods were worshipped.

 

[Hidden In Him]

They also observe the seasons, days of the week, and birthdays. What's your point?

That we shouldn't join them.

Are they in your church? They're not in mine. Maybe you're in the wrong church.

No they are not in my church, LoL, but they are in my culture, and my point is that maybe they wouldn't be today if we hadn't Christianized it all and legitimized it. The early fathers were not so kosher on the adoption of paganism. Many Catholic Churches today host Easter egg hunts, including the one in my city.

https://saintjohncathedral.org/easter-egg-hunt

 

[LanaPodesta]

That we shouldn't join them.

Pagans drink water too. Where do you draw the line?

No they are not in my church, LoL, but they are in my culture, and my point is that maybe they wouldn't be today if we hadn't Christianized it all and legitimized it.

But there's no EVIDENCE they're of pagan origin.

Many Catholic Churches today host Easter egg hunts, including the one in my city.

And? Nothing wrong with that. Can't we keep the fun and ignore the 'damentalism'?

 

[Hidden In Him]

If these people who emphasize the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching knew all the things they use, say, do, etc. had their origins in paganism, I think they would burst a blood vessel.

Do they have wedding rings? --> Pagan in origin

Have they ever lit a votive candle? --> Pagan in origin

Do they use a calendar? --> Pagan in origin

Walpole, I know you can't hear me because you apparently have me blocked, but in this discussion you are interaction with specific people, not a generic "these people" who emphasize the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching.

I'm well aware of the Gregorian calendar, where it came from, and when it was instituted. I'm also aware of the Jewish solar and lunar calendars, and I'm aware of what America is using at present. I don't use votive candles, and don't actually wear my wedding ring. Again, like the early fathers, I would prefer if we observed the Jewish customs after a spiritual manner the way the early church did, because it ties into revelation from God and insight from scripture. But we can't all have what we want. Am I judgmental of those who do something different? Have at it, but if we are discussing things from a Christian ("fundamentalist") perspective, I think there are a whole lot of things that wouldn't have a place if we were more educated about things, personally.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Pagans drink water too. Where do you draw the line?

Come on now, Lana. You've tried using this one several times now and it's not the greatest argument. Animals drink water, and they have to or they won't survive. Where do they draw the line?

But there's no EVIDENCE they're of pagan origin.

I think we're going in circles at this point, sister, but it's certainly been an interesting discussion nonetheless.

Blessings,
- H

 

[LanaPodesta]

I would prefer if we observed the Jewish customs after a spiritual manner the way the early church did

Then why don't you come home? Go to your local Eastern Orthodox church and you can worship as the early Christians did.

 

[LanaPodesta]

Come on now, Lana. You've tried using this one several times now and it's not the greatest argument. Animals drink water, and they have to or they won't survive. Where do they draw the line?

They don't, because there's nothing wrong with drinking water. Same as there's nothing wrong with Easter Eggs.

I think we're going in circles at this point, sister, but it's certainly been an interesting discussion nonetheless.

You've ignored the majority of the points I've made. I've addressed all of yours regarding the so called 'pagan' origins of Easter.

 

[Walpole]

Walpole, I know you can't hear me because you apparently have me blocked, but in this discussion you are interaction with specific people, not a generic "these people" who emphasize the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching.

I'm well aware of the Gregorian calendar, where it came from, and when it was instituted. I'm also aware of the Jewish solar and lunar calendars, and I'm aware of what America is using at present. I don't use votive candles, and don't actually wear my wedding ring. Again, like the early fathers, I would prefer if we observed the Jewish customs after a spiritual manner the way the early church did, because it ties into revelation from God and insight from scripture. But we can't all have what we want. Am I judgmental of those who do something different? Have at it, but if we are discussing things from a Christian ("fundamentalist") perspective, I think there are a whole lot of things that wouldn't have a place if we were more educated about things, personally.

Which Church Fathers do you think advocated for keeping Jewish customs?

They were actually opposed to keeping Jewish customs. Ever hear of the Judaizers? The reason the Church Fathers opposed this is because it is actually incompatible with Christianity. For keeping Jewish customs and rituals pointed to something which was to come: the Messiah. By continuing to participate in these Old Testament rituals, it would be implying Christ never came and fulfilled that which the Old Testament rituals all pointed to. Hence they opposed it, which gave rise to Christian customs and traditions.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Then why don't you come home? Go to your local Eastern Orthodox church and you can worship as the early Christians did.

Because I don't adopt everything the EOC observe. Too heavy into liturgy for me. Like I said before, I certainly respect them as a denomination, and I've liked the Orthodox I've met, but it's just not me.

 

[LanaPodesta]

Too heavy into liturgy for me

I am so sorry the original One Holy Apostolic Catholic Orthodox Church is 'too heavy into liturgy' for you. Maybe you could contact your local Bishop and have him completely change it just for you?