Is Baptism an Ordinance or Command?

[Nathan]

I was wondering if anybody can do a greek lookup on the word 'fire'. I heard it meant basically more of God. When people say they are on fire for God. I was thinking specifically of John the baptist saying Jesus would baptize us with the Holy Spirit and fire.
My big computer isnt working and im not going to try it on my tablet. What a mess. Ive actually NEVER done it yet.

Matthew 3:11
πῦρ pŷr, poor; a primary word; "fire" (literally or figuratively, specially, lightning):—fiery, fire.

Best that can be seen is it was a term used for purifying. Whether that meant purifying something like gold with fire, or purifying some place(like the earth) with fire. Fire, in that terminology, is used to indicate the removal of something to make something else purer.

 

[Edward]

Does one have to be commanded to just be a human being and let there natural light shine

Huh? The natural light of man? No such thing. There is no good in man, no one does good, no not one.

You've repeated that a couple times now, about just be a human being and do good, and that's a lie from the pit of Hell, Brother. Man can not and would not do good. It's in the scriptures, no ones good, no not one. I don't understand what yopu mean by mans natural light either. What natural light from man? God is the light of the earth and the life unto men. Let your light so shine before men, doesn't mean any sort of (mythical) natural light, that comes from man and the goodness he has within. That's not right brother. Let your light so shine before men, is we who walk in Christ and the Lord's spiritual light is the light that you speak of. It's not from man.

We're not just human beings brother, we are spiritual beings.

 

[stovebolts]

Don't guess brother, just read the word, and allow the Spirit to teach you.

That way you won't be blown about by every wind of doctrine, that is not from God.


11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 4:11-16



JLB

• The Baptism when we are born again, and Baptized into Christ, by the Spirit.
• The Baptism whereby a person Baptizes you in water.
• The Baptism whereby Jesus Baptizes you in the Holy Spirit.

Which baptism? Or One baptism?
It doesn't have to be an either or...
That's all I was saying.

 

[Corn Pop]

Huh? The natural light of man? No such thing. There is no good in man, no one does good, no not one.

You've repeated that a couple times now, about just be a human being and do good, and that's a lie from the pit of Hell, Brother. Man can not and would not do good. It's in the scriptures, no ones good, no not one. I don't understand what yopu mean by mans natural light either. What natural light from man? God is the light of the earth and the life unto men. Let your light so shine before men, doesn't mean any sort of (mythical) natural light, that comes from man and the goodness he has within. That's not right brother. Let your light so shine before men, is we who walk in Christ and the Lord's spiritual light is the light that you speak of. It's not from man.

We're not just human beings brother, we are spiritual beings.

Even Jesus said no one is good but God. God is the life and light of man. God dwells within man.

No man is good, no, not one.

The Serpants fruit, the law, the knowledge of good and evil, the stumbling block.

I think you maybe misunderstood if you think people cannot do good. God is mans natural light. No man is good but God and God dwells in man. Its his goodness.

Then Jesus asked them, "Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they remained silent.

Because a prophet says no one is good but God and Jesus says no one is good but God does not mean no one can do anything good.

 

[Corn Pop]

How can people have faith in Christ if they don't know Christ and have never seen Christ in his glory. They say they know Christ but live behind a veil. Still in the wilderness, walking through the lake of fire being refined. Have not recieved the full revelation of the truth and seen Christ in his glory.

Think of Moses and the red sea.
Baptised of fire and water lead by the spirit wondering in the wilderness.

Noahs flood.

 

[Nathan]

How can people have faith in Christ if they don't know Christ and have never seen Christ in his glory. They say they know Christ but live behind a veil. Still in the wilderness, walking through the lake of fire being refined. Have not recieved the full revelation of the truth and seen Christ in his glory.

Think of Moses and the red sea and the baptised of fire and water lead by the spirit.

Noahs flood.

People have faith in Christ because He gives them faith. Faith is the assurance of things not yet seen. If you see it, you don't need to have faith in it.

 

[Corn Pop]

People have faith in Christ because He gives them faith. Faith is the assurance of things not yet seen. If you see it, you don't need to have faith in it.

Assurance of things not yet seen. So that means blinded by the full revelation of the truth until it is revealed. So that means people don't know Christ and dont yet have the full truth.

I might sound negative but its not a negative thing. Its just what it is. Baptised in water and fire and lead by the Spirit until all things are revealed, the full revelation of Christ and the truth.

 

[Nathan]

Assurance of things not yet seen. So that means blinded by the full revelation of the truth until it is revealed. So that means people don't know Christ and dont yet have the full truth.

I might sound negative but its not a negative thing. Its just what it is. Baptised in water and fire and lead by the Spirit until all things are revealed, the full revelation of Christ and the truth.

So you have seen Christ?

 

[JLB]

• The Baptism when we are born again, and Baptized into Christ, by the Spirit.
• The Baptism whereby a person Baptizes you in water.
• The Baptism whereby Jesus Baptizes you in the Holy Spirit.

Which baptism? Or One baptism?
It doesn't have to be an either or...
That's all I was saying.

Thanks for asking the same question I asked.



JLB

 

[Corn Pop]

So you have seen Christ?

Any image someone has of a christ in there mind or some image of a christ in the sky is not christ, its the serpant. Christ is within us.

Where there is Liberty there is Christ.

 

[Nathan]

Any image someone has of a christ in there mind or some image of a christ in the sky is not christ, its the serpant. Christ is within us.

Do you have faith?

 

[Douglas Summers]

I am not sure if this goes here or in the Theology Forum.

Romans 10:9,10 "If thou shalt confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus,and shalt believe in thine heart that God has raised him from the dead,thou shalt be saved.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter saith unto them,"Repent,and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the Holy Ghost."

Phillip baptized the man from Ethiopia Acts 8:36-38

Yet the thief on the cross was not baptized Luke 23:43

I get confused when this subject is brought up in Sunday School.

In Truth, every born again believer will get baptized, baptism is not a command,(prior to salvation) it is the work of the holy Spirit in us following after Christ of the called. Faith alone in Christ's work secures our standing in God's grace. Baptism is the Spiritual act of dying to self and coming alive in Christ. (not a carnal act) but a Spiritual reality of the new man arising from the grave.
We do not get baptized to get saved, but because we are saved, and is not necessary to Salvation. (1 Cor. 1:17).(Rom. 6:1-23; Likewise; Let not; yield.

A man can be dunked as many times as he wants, till the Tadpole's know his name, but the act in itself will not save you.

 

[Corn Pop]

Do you have faith?

From the Alpha to the Amen.

 

[Corn Pop]

Have to go back to the garden.

" but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."

"You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

As soon as the first commandment was given it was over. A Law gives the knowledge of good and evil. If you don't eat from the tree it is good, if you eat from the tree it is bad. A commandment is a Law that gives someone the knowledge of good and evil.

The Serpants fruit. The first Commandment was the stumbling block. Eat from all the trees except the knowledge of good and evil. That commandment gave the knowledge of good and evil.

Christ fullfilled the Law by walking behind the serpant, behind the very first commandment that was given. Christ knew the commandment was the stumbling block. The first rule of Law.

Where Christ is there is Liberty.

The law said stone that woman, Christ is like what are you doing you fools let her go.

Go sin no more. Only the commandments can make one sin. What do you think hes saying, follow the commandments or follow me.

Not one jot of the law will pass away until all things are fullfilled. He fullfilled all things.

 

[Corn Pop]

“You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

The knowledge of good and evil is right there. There is the Serpants fruit. The first rule of law. A commandment/law gives the knowledge of good and evil, the serpants fruit.

Adam now knows and has the knowledge of good and evil right there through the law. If i eat from that tree its bad, if i dont eat from that tree its good.

Right there ladies and gentleman. Right there.

 

[Nathan]

“You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

The knowledge of good and evil is right there. There is the Serpants fruit. The first rule of law. A commandment/law gives the knowledge of good and evil, the serpants fruit.

Adam now knows and has the knowledge good and evil right there through the law. If i eat from that tree its bad, if i dont eat from that tree its good.

Was the command that God gave Adam good or bad?

 

[Corn Pop]

Was the command that God gave Adam good or bad?

Mankind had to be taught and learn right?.

And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

 

[Nathan]

Mankind had to be taught and learn somehow right?.

The serpant is the school teacher and the hospital.

And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Does that mean it was good or bad?

 

[Corn Pop]

Does that mean it was good or bad?

Any law or commandment is the knowledge of good and evil.

If God said to Adam dont eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, that commandment right there is the knowledge of good and evil.

Right there Adam knows what is good and what is evil before he even eats from the tree.

 

[Nathan]

Any law or commandment is the knowledge of good and evil.

If God said to Adam dont eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, that commandment right there is the knowledge of good and evil.

Right there Adam knows what is good and what is evil before he even eats from the tree.

I'm still not understanding if you think it's good or bad? It can't be good and bad right? Gods command to Adam had to be good or bad, not both. So what do you believe? If you don't want to answer that's fine.